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Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




All statements going forward are colored by the 8th edition codex.

Ive seen posts that people wonder if the alpha legion is infact against the imperium or that they dont worship chaos. This puzzles me greatly because there are PLENTY of fluff examples of the AL causing much harm to imperials and supporting the other traitor legions. Infact much of the recent fluff that has come to pass that hurt or outright caused the downfall of the imperium had major AL involvement. Correct me if im wrong, but the catalyst for the recent split of the empire was the planet of sorcs coming into real space. That happend due to the Tsons, but they in turn relied of AL support to pull the act off.

My point is this. the fluff clearly states the AL has been a horrible thorn in the side of the empire since the HH. At no point have they hurt or hindered their brother traitor legions. Why do people still insist that the AL is not allied to chaos? Now the fluff is shaky on the actual levels of devotion of the AL to the chaos gods. Its obvious they recognize the gods and do work in their favor. While I have found no examples fluff wise of AL troops being marked, I have also not found any fluff to argue that they cant be marked. The rules allow them to be marked and take ALL available cult troops.

I admit my grasp of the fluff is minimal, and that is why im making this thread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/17 10:57:46


 
   
Made in us
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Dallas, TX

There are fluff of AL killing traitor legionaires, one example was them impersonate a iron warrior ship captain after killing him for a mission. Another was Omegon killing his own AL squad after a mission to silent them for no obvious reason.

The main reason people think the AL are still loyal is that there is a interaction between a seer and Alpharius, where the portent saying the AL must support Horus in order to help the imperium in the big picture. Its so confusing that no one know where their loyalty lies.
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Of course the traitor legions have infighting. I guess I should have made that more clear. What im talking about is that the AL has never foiled a major offensive or plan by the other traitor legions.

I have not read that fluff yet. But I am presuming it is older. What I am going by is pure 8th edition codex fluff. In the AL entries it is stated that AL gleefully fights loyalist marines. In no piece of fluff I have yet to read have AL done anything even close to aiding the imperium. As a matter of fact the recent fall of the empire could not have happened without them. Im guessing most of the fluff calling their allegiance to question is older and since been retconned.

For a faction thats loyalty is in question they sure do alot to piss in the soup of the loyalists. Many planetary revolts and insurrections have been planned and executed by the AL. They also foster the formation of chaos cults, giving them some connection to the chaos gods. Id say no other legion has done as much to destroy the loyalists as the AL has. Perhaps other legions like Tsons and BL have landed huge blows but its the AL that has caused the most harm in a sustained fashion.

Im sorry, I cant see how the AL is anything but a tried and true traitor legion by recent fluff. I guess what im asking for is recent fluff examples of the AL working against chaos. Old fluff is fine, but its just that, old. Much like how the newcrons have changed the oldcrons.


But thank you for the reply and ill try to hunt down the information you have generously provided.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





right behind you

The squad omegon killed had just disabled a pylon installation thing, that was stopping the white scars fleet from reaching terra, which they disabled under omegon's orders, it's implied fairly often that omegon was at least partially loyalist.
Also alpharius is dead, but omegon could be alive, commanding the bulk of the legion, and of course there are proper chaos alphas but we only know the true intentions of a tiny fraction of the alphas, ie you don't know their true intentions, but neither do we.

1650 points approx. of deathwatch
2500 points aprox. of alpha legion and thousand sons
50 power admech
60 power salamanders
70 power thousand sons


 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Dear concerned Imperial citizen. There is no such thing as the 'Alpha Legion'. The last remnants of the traitorous formation once known as such were completely eradicated in M39. Any rumours to the contrary are clearly heretical lies spread to undermine the resolve of our glorious Imperium.
Now back to work citizen, the Emperor protects.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Devastator





right behind you

Ayy lmao

1650 points approx. of deathwatch
2500 points aprox. of alpha legion and thousand sons
50 power admech
60 power salamanders
70 power thousand sons


 
   
Made in tw
Longtime Dakkanaut





How canon are the “imperial primer” blog posts? They definitely have an entry where some Alphas as posing as Ultramarines to fight the deathguard for no apparent reason other than to see the death guard defeated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*note- I mean “regimental standard”, not imperial primer!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And here's the entry I was thinking of, with the Imperium reinforced by the “ Alphic Hydras”
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/08/30/konor-war-diaries-part-6-loebos/

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/17 15:53:59


   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Actually, the Alphic Hydras ARE a canon regiment of Scions. However, if they're actually affiliated with the Alpha Legion is up for debate. It should be noted that they also have close ties to the Ultramarines.


They/them

 
   
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Carlovonsexron wrote:
How canon are the “imperial primer” blog posts? They definitely have an entry where some Alphas as posing as Ultramarines to fight the deathguard for no apparent reason other than to see the death guard defeated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*note- I mean “regimental standard”, not imperial primer!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And here's the entry I was thinking of, with the Imperium reinforced by the “ Alphic Hydras”
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/08/30/konor-war-diaries-part-6-loebos/

Gold as always from Regimental Standard.

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Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

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ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Table wrote:
Of course the traitor legions have infighting. I guess I should have made that more clear. What im talking about is that the AL has never foiled a major offensive or plan by the other traitor legions.

I have not read that fluff yet. But I am presuming it is older. What I am going by is pure 8th edition codex fluff. In the AL entries it is stated that AL gleefully fights loyalist marines. In no piece of fluff I have yet to read have AL done anything even close to aiding the imperium. As a matter of fact the recent fall of the empire could not have happened without them. Im guessing most of the fluff calling their allegiance to question is older and since been retconned.

For a faction thats loyalty is in question they sure do alot to piss in the soup of the loyalists. Many planetary revolts and insurrections have been planned and executed by the AL. They also foster the formation of chaos cults, giving them some connection to the chaos gods. Id say no other legion has done as much to destroy the loyalists as the AL has. Perhaps other legions like Tsons and BL have landed huge blows but its the AL that has caused the most harm in a sustained fashion.

Im sorry, I cant see how the AL is anything but a tried and true traitor legion by recent fluff. I guess what im asking for is recent fluff examples of the AL working against chaos. Old fluff is fine, but its just that, old. Much like how the newcrons have changed the oldcrons.


But thank you for the reply and ill try to hunt down the information you have generously provided.


Alpha Legion is playing the long game. Sure, they could have yelled, "Psyche!" and revealed they were loyalists millenia ago, but then they wouldn't get to spring the real trap they have planned... Whatever it is. The imperium has plenty of chapters hurling themselves at chaos marines shouting, "We're your enemies!" The Alpha Legion are the guys cozying up to you, sliding a knife between your ribs, and whispering, "We're your friends."

In the book Legion, it's revealed that, to push things in the direction Alpharius believes the Emperor would really want things to go, Horus has to win the Heresy. Thus why they supported him initially. Of course, the Heresy didn't really shake out the way either side of the prophecy predicted, so we have yet another layer of ambiguity to work with. Heck. Maybe foiling the prophecy was part of the plan the whole time: hopefully finding a superior outcome to the ones presented in the prophecy.

And remember: just because the Legion doesn't shout, "We're secretly loyalists!" in any major battles doesn't mean they aren't acting against chaos. It could just mean that they are doing a very good job of acting against chaos in subtle ways.

Iron Warriors: "We would have launched a crusade that would have wiped out the Blood Angels, but the navigational charts on our lead navigator's ship were replaced with forgeries. The whole fleet ended up in the middle of an ork waaagh."

Alpha Legionnaire: "Oh? How strange. "

My head canon:
You don't trick sorcerers, daemons, and chaos gods with a simple lie. One could imply from content in the Primarchs and Legion that the 20th primarch has some interesting "split soul" stuff going on. Based on the conversation between Alpharius and Omegon, I suspect that the primarch effectively split/compartmentalized his consciousness so that Omegon could remain secretly loyalist while Alpharius could genuinely take the plunge into chaos. So when Alpharius is talking to Horus in plain sight of any mind readers that may be present, they can all go, "Yeah. No. This guy is legit. Welcome to the dark side." Meanwhile, Omegon remains privy to their joint plans while also issuing orders to secretly work against chaos at the same time. And regular legionnaires are so accustomed to obeying the primarch and understanding the importance of secrets that they might genuinely not know what side they're really fighting for half the time.

Additional Head Canon:
Most of the description of the Alpha Legion fluff from the 7th edition Legions book was propaganda intended to make you think AL are just some guys that are proud of how good they are at fighting.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Wyldhunt wrote:
Table wrote:
Of course the traitor legions have infighting. I guess I should have made that more clear. What im talking about is that the AL has never foiled a major offensive or plan by the other traitor legions.

I have not read that fluff yet. But I am presuming it is older. What I am going by is pure 8th edition codex fluff. In the AL entries it is stated that AL gleefully fights loyalist marines. In no piece of fluff I have yet to read have AL done anything even close to aiding the imperium. As a matter of fact the recent fall of the empire could not have happened without them. Im guessing most of the fluff calling their allegiance to question is older and since been retconned.

For a faction thats loyalty is in question they sure do alot to piss in the soup of the loyalists. Many planetary revolts and insurrections have been planned and executed by the AL. They also foster the formation of chaos cults, giving them some connection to the chaos gods. Id say no other legion has done as much to destroy the loyalists as the AL has. Perhaps other legions like Tsons and BL have landed huge blows but its the AL that has caused the most harm in a sustained fashion.

Im sorry, I cant see how the AL is anything but a tried and true traitor legion by recent fluff. I guess what im asking for is recent fluff examples of the AL working against chaos. Old fluff is fine, but its just that, old. Much like how the newcrons have changed the oldcrons.


But thank you for the reply and ill try to hunt down the information you have generously provided.


Alpha Legion is playing the long game. Sure, they could have yelled, "Psyche!" and revealed they were loyalists millenia ago, but then they wouldn't get to spring the real trap they have planned... Whatever it is. The imperium has plenty of chapters hurling themselves at chaos marines shouting, "We're your enemies!" The Alpha Legion are the guys cozying up to you, sliding a knife between your ribs, and whispering, "We're your friends."

In the book Legion, it's revealed that, to push things in the direction Alpharius believes the Emperor would really want things to go, Horus has to win the Heresy. Thus why they supported him initially. Of course, the Heresy didn't really shake out the way either side of the prophecy predicted, so we have yet another layer of ambiguity to work with. Heck. Maybe foiling the prophecy was part of the plan the whole time: hopefully finding a superior outcome to the ones presented in the prophecy.

And remember: just because the Legion doesn't shout, "We're secretly loyalists!" in any major battles doesn't mean they aren't acting against chaos. It could just mean that they are doing a very good job of acting against chaos in subtle ways.

Iron Warriors: "We would have launched a crusade that would have wiped out the Blood Angels, but the navigational charts on our lead navigator's ship were replaced with forgeries. The whole fleet ended up in the middle of an ork waaagh."

Alpha Legionnaire: "Oh? How strange. "

My head canon:
You don't trick sorcerers, daemons, and chaos gods with a simple lie. One could imply from content in the Primarchs and Legion that the 20th primarch has some interesting "split soul" stuff going on. Based on the conversation between Alpharius and Omegon, I suspect that the primarch effectively split/compartmentalized his consciousness so that Omegon could remain secretly loyalist while Alpharius could genuinely take the plunge into chaos. So when Alpharius is talking to Horus in plain sight of any mind readers that may be present, they can all go, "Yeah. No. This guy is legit. Welcome to the dark side." Meanwhile, Omegon remains privy to their joint plans while also issuing orders to secretly work against chaos at the same time. And regular legionnaires are so accustomed to obeying the primarch and understanding the importance of secrets that they might genuinely not know what side they're really fighting for half the time.

Additional Head Canon:
Most of the description of the Alpha Legion fluff from the 7th edition Legions book was propaganda intended to make you think AL are just some guys that are proud of how good they are at fighting.


Not saying you are wrong but can you cite the sources for what you have typed?

Being double agents is fine and all, but the AL has done FAR FAR FAR more to hurt the imperium of man than to help. The current dire straits of the empire is directly caused by the AL aiding the Tsons during the attack on the space wolves. Not to mention all the nasty business they have been up to since the 13th Black Crusade has kicked off. Even before this recent fluff they were very well known to start many many many planetary revolts and sabotaging actions. Even if we adhere to the idea that 40k fluff is fluid and is based in imperial propaganda we find that the AL has caused far more harm to the empire than help. Most of the AL actions against brother legions has been at the level of standard chaos infighting. If anything the AL probably screws with other legions to keep the balance of power in the eye.

Im just looking for hard fast lore on where it can be even closely stated that the AL are loyalists. From everything I have read they have done FAR to much harm to mankind to ever call themselves anything but a chaos legion.
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






Back in the Realms of Chaos days, there was a plotline involving a Cabal of various xenos and humans that knew about the threat of chaos, as well as being able to see likely outcomes of humanity's interactions with it. Alpharius and the Alpha Legion were very loyal to the Emperor and mankind, but being the masters of cunning and subterfuge they were, the Cabal contacted Alpharius and convinced him that in order to truly defeat Chaos and prevent it from consuming all sentient life in the galaxy, the Imperium of Man must be destroyed by Horus' civil war. So Alpharius backed Horus in order to stick it to Chaos. However, Horus failed, and so did the plans of the Cabal.

 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 Luciferian wrote:
Back in the Realms of Chaos days, there was a plotline involving a Cabal of various xenos and humans that knew about the threat of chaos, as well as being able to see likely outcomes of humanity's interactions with it. Alpharius and the Alpha Legion were very loyal to the Emperor and mankind, but being the masters of cunning and subterfuge they were, the Cabal contacted Alpharius and convinced him that in order to truly defeat Chaos and prevent it from consuming all sentient life in the galaxy, the Imperium of Man must be destroyed by Horus' civil war. So Alpharius backed Horus in order to stick it to Chaos. However, Horus failed, and so did the plans of the Cabal.


Thank you very much for the information!

Realm of Chaos is very old and counteracts the current fluff. But now I see where people are drawing the idea from. And honestly, I think I prefer this version of the AL to the current chaos legion one.
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






Most of my favorite lore comes from that era and I'm sad that it has been abandoned. It's pretty brutal to think about an Alpha Legion that joined Horus against its wishes in order to do what it thought it must, and then was stuck with the decision after none of it worked out.

 
   
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Dallas, TX

link to a AL related short story, at 47 minute on..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpLH13wu4Y
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Table wrote:

Im just looking for hard fast lore


And that is where things go wrong. There is no 'hard fast' lore about the AL at all. The whole thing about the Alpha Legion is that they are a mysterious, shady force about which nothing is known for certain. If you read the FW HH texts on the AL, it gives you an excellent picture for just how little certain facts there are about the AL, and that even the facts that we think we know may actually be false. If we don't even have 'hard fast' lore about basic things like the homeworld of Alpharius, or what exactly the deal is with Alpharius/Omegon, or about things like whether the Alpha Legion operates as a unified whole as independent cells, then why would you expect there to be 'hard fast' lore about something as complicated as the Alpha Legion's loyalty?
How could you possibly measure the loyalty of a force you know nothing certain about?
The old Realms of Chaos fluff has never been counteracted by more modern fluff. We do not know for certain why the AL joined forces with Horus. Any any fluff we get regarding their motives, who is to say it is the truth? It could simply be another cover story, rumour or lie just like those about Alpharius/Omegon's history.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 10:35:35


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 Iron_Captain wrote:
Table wrote:

Im just looking for hard fast lore


And that is where things go wrong. There is no 'hard fast' lore about the AL at all. The whole thing about the Alpha Legion is that they are a mysterious, shady force about which nothing is known for certain. If you read the FW HH texts on the AL, it gives you an excellent picture for just how little certain facts there are about the AL, and that even the facts that we think we know may actually be false. If we don't even have 'hard fast' lore about basic things like the homeworld of Alpharius, or what exactly the deal is with Alpharius/Omegon, or about things like whether the Alpha Legion operates as a unified whole as independent cells, then why would you expect there to be 'hard fast' lore about something as complicated as the Alpha Legion's loyalty?
How could you possibly measure the loyalty of a force you know nothing certain about?
The old Realms of Chaos fluff has never been counteracted by more modern fluff. We do not know for certain why the AL joined forces with Horus. Any any fluff we get regarding their motives, who is to say it is the truth? It could simply be another cover story, rumour or lie just like those about Alpharius/Omegon's history.


Have you read the 8th edition chaos marine codex? The multipage entry on the AL is pretty damning for the whole loyalist AL bit. In the end, I am not against people having a differing twist on established lore but at some point things need to be a bit more stable to have coherent story. To me, the recent fluff and moreover, recent codex fluff trumps anything from black library or old white dwarf. In the end, with the current fluff standing, its pretty solid that the AL is a chaos warband in full. Its unfortunate because I like the old lore story more. But sometimes lore gets retconned. Its not that the realm of chaos lore is directly retconned by 8th lore, its just that both cannot exist in the same space. And then I guess its down to the player/reader. As Ive said, I myself put all lore outside of the current edition codexs as beta in relation to current codex lore. And in the current 8th chaos codex the AL are very much a chaos legion.

I was hoping for lore that could somehow explain the vast gulf in lore between modern and old.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Big Mac wrote:
link to a AL related short story, at 47 minute on..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpLH13wu4Y


Thanks for the link!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 13:01:58


 
   
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Actually, the Alphic Hydras ARE a canon regiment of Scions. However, if they're actually affiliated with the Alpha Legion is up for debate. It should be noted that they also have close ties to the Ultramarines.


Yes. But in the article its talking about Alphic Hydra astartes, not storm troopers

   
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 Luciferian wrote:
Back in the Realms of Chaos days, there was a plotline involving a Cabal of various xenos and humans that knew about the threat of chaos, as well as being able to see likely outcomes of humanity's interactions with it. Alpharius and the Alpha Legion were very loyal to the Emperor and mankind, but being the masters of cunning and subterfuge they were, the Cabal contacted Alpharius and convinced him that in order to truly defeat Chaos and prevent it from consuming all sentient life in the galaxy, the Imperium of Man must be destroyed by Horus' civil war. So Alpharius backed Horus in order to stick it to Chaos. However, Horus failed, and so did the plans of the Cabal.


The above plotline was actually integrated into the novel 'Legion' from the Horus Heresy series of books, IIRC.

Spoiler:
The Cabal shows the Alpha's the truth about the Chaos gods (or at least, visions of what horrible fate awaits mankind should the gods win), and tells them that the only way to truly defeat Chaos is to let it destroy itself. According to the Cabal, this can only come to pass if Horus wins the war. They believe that Horus will eventually grow disgusted with himself and his crimes, and in his madness will seek to destroy everyone and everything, eventually leading to the complete extermination of the human race, and thus, to the death of the Chaos gods.

The Alpha's were initially completely convinced of the truth of the Cabal's visions, but later on, Alpharius (or Omegon) starts having doubts. After a while, they break off contact with the Cabal altogether, after which things get hazy.


In short, the Alpha's can be seen as 'loyal' in the sense that they're trying to save the galaxy from Chaos (which is what the Emperor was trying to do with the whole Great Crusade and stuff), but on the other hand, there's no telling if they're still sticking to that plan or not. They might just be killing/hurting the Imperium because they've become actual traitors.

Either way, bringing the Imperium down fits both agendas. And if they have to work with other traitor legions to do so, they'll happily do so.



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Carlovonsexron wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Actually, the Alphic Hydras ARE a canon regiment of Scions. However, if they're actually affiliated with the Alpha Legion is up for debate. It should be noted that they also have close ties to the Ultramarines.


Yes. But in the article its talking about Alphic Hydra astartes, not storm troopers
...Um, no?

Did you read the article? There's a link from the words "Alphic Hydras" that takes you to the GW page for Militarum Tempestus Scions.
Not Astartes.

Yes, it does imply that there are ALPHA LEGION later, in the paragraph AFTER they talk about the Alphic Hydras, where they talk about "experimental new companies" of Ultramarines, but that's not the Alphic Hydras they're talking about.

As I suggested, there possibly IS a link between with Alpha Legion Space Marines and Alphic Hydras Scions, but it's not confirmed at all.


They/them

 
   
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Ahh! You're totally right! Sorry about that!

   
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Lets say you are a happy (and loyal) Alpha Legionnaire out on patrol looking for likely targets for a chaos raid. You spot an isolated planet with weak warp access and an undermanned PDF garrison. The perfect target!

So you start a chaos cult amongst the planetary leadership. A weak cult, but highly placed. In time, the planet falls into a full blown rebellion that has to be put down by an Astartes strike force and Guard invasion force.

The next time an armada of Iron Warriors try to move against a planet that was picked out as an easy mark with cult activity they ready their attack force only to come up against an entrenched and well trained PDF with close ties to some Guard regiments and a pledge of protection to an Astartes chapter.


It's all about the long game.

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Like Luciferian said, that alien secret society, called the Cabal, shows the AL primarchs a vision of the future where the emperor "won" the civil war, which was the nightmare present of 40k.

If you think about it, the present 40k setting is just a massive feeding frenzy for the chaos gods. The hate, fear, despair, death, hedonism, and decadence of the present universe is exactly the sort of thing chaos gods love.

The alternative, horus defeating the emperor, would have resulted in a couple centuries of some pretty horrific stuff, but in the end, the Cabal prophesied that once horus had no more human worlds to conquer/burn, they'd turn on each other and generally the wildfire of chaos would burn itself out.

So, while horus winning the civil war wouldn't have been very good for humanity, it also wouldn't have been very good for the chaos gods, long term.

The AL primarchs judged that defeating/banishing chaos was more important than saving humanity, which is one hell of a decision to have to make. So they backed horus with the long con of starving chaos.

But horus lost anyways, alpharius and omegon died (kinda-sorta-mabye?), and the legion at large was exiled with the rest of the traitor legions. Then the universe was plunged into a constant state of war, much to the delight of the chaos gods.

The reason/in-joke that they are still loyalist is because it is possible they are still seeking some way to exile/starve out chaos, especially if their primarchs are still alive. Maybe this was all JUST AS PLANNED. Then again, maybe their plan is the same as it's always been - kill the emperor, let chaos conquer humanity then burn itself out, thus denying chaos the all-you-can-eat buffet of souls it is enjoying now.

This is partially reinforced because the alpha legion stay out of the eye of terror, and don't really utilize daemons, spells, human sacrifices, that sort of thing. They definitely do still fight the imperium, but if it's for some greater anti-chaos plan, no one can say......


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyldhunt wrote:


And remember: just because the Legion doesn't shout, "We're secretly loyalists!"


You know, their battle cry is "For the Emperor", which is honestly pretty much "We're secretly loyalists" from a certain point of view.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/12/18 21:45:22


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Very interesting posts. Thank you all. I am still having trouble reconciling the 8th edition codex lore and what has been presented. I would copy/paste the AL entry in the newest codex but I dont want to get in trouble;P.
Suffice to say, to those that have not read the codex, the AL does indeed work with chaos. At least one, in lore, AL champion has been elevated to Demon Prince status by the gods. His name is/was Voldorius. The legion has many sorc's and uses them, as evidenced by the Planetary Hiest of Avernia. The reason I have stated that the AL has done more damage to the Imperium than most of the other legions is that they have been on a long campaign with the Black Legion to weaken reality in many sectors so the great rift could be opened. They have also created a demon world in at least one occasion as told in the Dream of Serpents.

A legion that does all of the above can in no way be loyalist.

I understand that the old lore is better and probably preferred by most (myself included) but it seems we have a newcron situation. The newAL are clearly arch traitors.


Btw this was all taken from the 8th edition codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/18 21:04:29


 
   
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From what I remember the Alpha's were VERY fragmented so the current case can be explained as some of them are still loyal but some are very much traitor and some are probably neutral mercenaries or something.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




pm713 wrote:
From what I remember the Alpha's were VERY fragmented so the current case can be explained as some of them are still loyal but some are very much traitor and some are probably neutral mercenaries or something.


While that is a good idea I think the way in which the legion is fragmented is in more of a terrorist cell fragmentation. In a terrorist cell network you have many independent groups with little to no tie to each other in order to limit the entire group being outed if one cell is captured. They are many groups working torwards the same goal.

The head canon I think that makes the most sense, for me at least, is that perhaps at one point Alpharius did indeed visit with a alien cabal and did plan to destroy chaos (as in the old lore) but was stiffled by Omegaron whom took over the legion and pushed it into true chaos worship. Perhaps there are still small loyalist bands plying the long war but they are in the vast minority. Almost all of the legion has become corrupt and are tried and true traitor legion (as evidenced by 8th codex lore). Which I think could make some cool stories for the setting. Perhaps Alphy and Omegy are fighting a long war for the souls of the legion with Omegy clearly being in the far lead. Perhaps Alphy can come back in some fashion with his loyalist legionaries and thwart the Alpha legion proper.

So while I dont think there is any lore that can bridge the oldcron lore with the newcron lore, I can now understand where people draw the idea of AL loyalty from. I think ill go with the above head canon to explain the split in lore.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

Table wrote:


A legion that does all of the above can in no way be loyalist.

I understand that the old lore is better and probably preferred by most (myself included) but it seems we have a newcron situation. The newAL are clearly arch traitors.




That's fair - I honestly wasn't aware that AL used sorcerers or had any daemon princes, but they do in the newest codex.

Whether or not AL are secretly working for or against chaos long term, the origins of their rebellion were because of a 'greater good' mentality that they thought humanity's demise was worth starving the chaos gods - unlike the other traitor primarchs, who had generally selfish motives for rebelling. The AL actually thought they were doing the universe a favor by helping horus, as counterintuitive as that seems.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Table wrote:


A legion that does all of the above can in no way be loyalist.

I understand that the old lore is better and probably preferred by most (myself included) but it seems we have a newcron situation. The newAL are clearly arch traitors.




That's fair - I honestly wasn't aware that AL used sorcerers or had any daemon princes, but they do in the newest codex.

Whether or not AL are secretly working for or against chaos long term, the origins of their rebellion were because of a 'greater good' mentality that they thought humanity's demise was worth starving the chaos gods - unlike the other traitor primarchs, who had generally selfish motives for rebelling. The AL actually thought they were doing the universe a favor by helping horus, as counterintuitive as that seems.


Yea, its just something happened between plans and results. Somehow alphy's plan did not go as expected. I think finding lore as to what happened to bridge the gap between the old lore and new would be a great read.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

The Alpha legion were wiped out entirely during the heresy, no survivors whatsoever, even the twin primarchs were killed by Dorn and Jaghatai Khan
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





AL fluff is all over the place right now. I liked them better when For the Emperor was them just being sarcastic and mocking.

Their fluff writers must have had a What If: moment and tried to make them actually For the Emperor. Whoa, what a twist!!!

I think a better focus should have been Alpharius/Omegon, one loyal, one Traitor, and the divide of the Legion because of that. The whole started out trying to save the Imperium but now they got caught up in covert scheming so much they don't even know their own agenda tries too hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They could have had Chaos Alphas doing the mustache twirling, but also note some other Alphas disrupting Chaos forces as well. Even working with unknowing Guard forces and what not. Or Alpha forces turning on each other.

I mean... Maybe that stuff is out there, but I haven't read any of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 00:48:12


 
   
 
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