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Totally stoked for new daemon codex but some of the new units and descriptions are leaving me disheartened. I am only recently involved in the lore but I think of Nurgle as a festering / disease ridden in the dark 40k universe. The new units and some descriptions sound almost comical in contrast:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/27/the-third-day-of-nurgle-heraldsgw-homepage-post-3/
"Sloppity Bilepiper, a miniature that sums up the repugnant jollity of Nurgle perfectly... Sloppity Bilepipers cavort and joke with Nurglings, Great Unclean Ones and Beasts of Nurgle"

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/fourth-day-of-nurgle-lord-of-blights.html
"On the battlefield, the Lord of Blights can shroud his fellows in swarming hosts of flies or hand out deadly death’s heads for Putrid Blightkings to fling at enemies!"
Hand out... death's heads to fling at enemy's...

My understanding was that nurglings are intended to be somewhat more light-hearted (like Hades's familiars from Disney's Hercules) but has Nurgle always been this clowny?

But that jollyness has ALWAYS been a nurgle thing.

hell mordhime had the nurgle based carnival of chaos


its pretty clear though gw is trying to get away from the extreme super grimdark blacker then the blackest black times infinity

and im ok with it. at some you look at it and realize how ridiculous the setting would be if it was 1000% fethed all the time. (and make no mistakes it is still at least 500% fethed already)

You have Slaanesh for your BDSM kinky chaos God. Let Nurgle be happy. He's the only happy thing in all of warhammer.

Yeah, nurgle has always been the jolly chaos god. There's a reason he's papa nurgle!

i mean, not just nurglings, you've also got the hounds of nurgle, who are basically giant slobbery tentacle and disease coated newfies.

Nurgle has always had a strong element of morbid cheerfulness, kinda like a danse macabre:


In WHFRP for example there is the 'Carnival of Nurgle': http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Carnival_of_Nurgle. It may seem cheerful at first, but it is actually pretty grimdark stuff.
And here a picture of a Nurgle cultist (spoilered for size):



Nothing comical about flinging decapitated heads at your enemy though. Especially not when those heads are infected with all kinds of diseases. That is actually an effective (and pretty dark) real-life military tactic of the past to demoralise and kill your enemies.

I have to disagree. Nurgle hasn't always been "jolly" at all. Wickedly sinister/creepy? Sure. Smiley faced? perhaps, but not jolly. But then I got my Nurgle exposure from Plague Daemon back from the late 80's.

I hate the names, but I don't use any of the god awful GW nomenclature of late. I think paintjobs could save some of these models. There's a difference between a sick and twisted grin...and a caricature cartoon of silliness.

 Desubot wrote:

its pretty clear though gw is trying to get away from the extreme super grimdark blacker then the blackest black times infinity

More like trying to differentiate Nurgle somehow from the other two 'kills you horribly with disease' bigwigs, Horned Rat and Nagash. You want blackest black, both provide plenty of it so Nurgle started to feel redundant.

 Irbis wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

its pretty clear though gw is trying to get away from the extreme super grimdark blacker then the blackest black times infinity

More like trying to differentiate Nurgle somehow from the other two 'kills you horribly with disease' bigwigs, Horned Rat and Nagash. You want blackest black, both provide plenty of it so Nurgle started to feel redundant.

Oh sorry was thinking more 40k flavor of grime

since 40k is chugging right along withe primarchs returning and things happening that sort of give hope to the imperium.

 Desubot wrote:

since 40k is chugging right along withe primarchs returning and things happening that sort of give hope to the imperium.

Last time I checked, 2 out of 3 returnees kind of do not provide any hope. At all. Unless you count rigor moritis as one

 Elbows wrote:
I have to disagree. Nurgle hasn't always been "jolly" at all. Wickedly sinister/creepy? Sure. Smiley faced? perhaps, but not jolly. But then I got my Nurgle exposure from Plague Daemon back from the late 80's.

I hate the names, but I don't use any of the god awful GW nomenclature of late. I think paintjobs could save some of these models. There's a difference between a sick and twisted grin...and a caricature cartoon of silliness.

Then as someone, like me, who's old enough to have seen Lost and the Damned, I refer you to the two page story in there where the Great Unclean One is the master of a traveling carnival and is fatherly, generous, and yes, jolly. Nurgle is both the despair of disease and the joy of living another day in the face of death. Horrible, smallpoxy death.

 Irbis wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

since 40k is chugging right along withe primarchs returning and things happening that sort of give hope to the imperium.

Last time I checked, 2 out of 3 returnees kind of do not provide any hope. At all. Unless you count rigor moritis as one

Lol

well chaos space marine players needed hope too i guess

and girlyman and cawl was a pretty big deal.

 Elbows wrote:
I have to disagree. Nurgle hasn't always been "jolly" at all. Wickedly sinister/creepy? Sure. Smiley faced? perhaps, but not jolly. But then I got my Nurgle exposure from Plague Daemon back from the late 80's.

I hate the names, but I don't use any of the god awful GW nomenclature of late. I think paintjobs could save some of these models. There's a difference between a sick and twisted grin...and a caricature cartoon of silliness.

Hmm Well glancing through The Lost and the Damned......

On the nature of Nurgle

Happinness and human endeavor are sired by a coming to terms with decay and fulitlity. This reliasation is the key to understanding the Great Lord of of Decay and his worshipers

The Great Unclean Ones are

motivated by all the trivial human enthusiams which drive the living. They are ebullient and vociferous, full of a natural enthusiasm to organise and achieve. They are driven by a gregarious and even sentimental nature and hold their followers dear.

There are parades and processions, carnival masks and tinling bells on carts and clothing - even a symphony of flatulence - and thats just in the first 20 pages of the book.

GW is more in tune with the old stuff than it has been for at least a decade

There is of course the darker (much darker) side to Nurgle but the kindly Grandfather aspect is equally important.

The biggest issue I see is the absurdly bright and saturated colors GW is using for its new nurgle art and figurines, too cartoony for my taste.

The same miniatures done with duller, less full looking colors can make a huge difference. Add some actual gore (AKA, blood coming out of those huge tears in their flesh) and you have something that legitimately looks imposing.

I also think that a lot of the new minis go a little too far with the mutation angle, some subtlety would be nice.

 Cothonian wrote:
The biggest issue I see is the absurdly bright and saturated colors GW is using for its new nurgle art and figurines, too cartoony for my taste.

The same miniatures done with duller, less full looking colors can make a huge difference. Add some actual gore (AKA, blood coming out of those huge tears in their flesh) and you have something that legitimately looks imposing.

I also think that a lot of the new minis go a little too far with the mutation angle, some subtlety would be nice.

But they are daemons.

they should be radiating the ruinous power of the warp not looking like they were dragged through a pot of devlan mud.

In terms of duller colors, here is a nice example (just did a quick search in Dakka's gallery, credits to the painter):



Less saturated and bright colors, with more of a subtle wear about the model, while still maintaining the hints of slime.

 Desubot wrote:

 Cothonian wrote:
The biggest issue I see is the absurdly bright and saturated colors GW is using for its new nurgle art and figurines, too cartoony for my taste.

The same miniatures done with duller, less full looking colors can make a huge difference. Add some actual gore (AKA, blood coming out of those huge tears in their flesh) and you have something that legitimately looks imposing.

I also think that a lot of the new minis go a little too far with the mutation angle, some subtlety would be nice.

But they are daemons.

they should be radiating the ruinous power of the warp not looking like they were dragged through a pot of devlan mud.

Well they are partially constructed from Mortal fears and imagination so both types are likely to be about

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Cothonian wrote:
The biggest issue I see is the absurdly bright and saturated colors GW is using for its new nurgle art and figurines, too cartoony for my taste.

The same miniatures done with duller, less full looking colors can make a huge difference. Add some actual gore (AKA, blood coming out of those huge tears in their flesh) and you have something that legitimately looks imposing.

I also think that a lot of the new minis go a little too far with the mutation angle, some subtlety would be nice.

But they are daemons.

they should be radiating the ruinous power of the warp not looking like they were dragged through a pot of devlan mud.

Well they are partially constructed from Mortal fears and imagination so both types are likely to be about

Yeah thats true.

personally i like it when the mortal side of daemonic possession looks gritty and real while the actual manifestation of daemons being more bright and cartoony makes for a fantastic contrast to it.

The GUO was always described as jovial. The Nurglings were always described as mischievous.

Even the title Gifts of Nurgle implies the guy is kind and generous!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anyone needs a revamp of style it's Slaanesh. Daemonettes with pigtails and Beyonce hair is just ugh.

I imagined the “Sloppity” bit as coming in an almost ‘Chitty Chitty Bang Bang’ Child-Catcher forced, creepy jollity. Imagine it being gurgled in a Gollum-esque voice...

Also that he is the embodiment of a more-tedious-than-usual middle-manager’s (and that is what more senior plaguebearer’s seem to be) preconception of what a ‘funny’ or ‘wacky’ persona is, and has adopted the name accordingly.

And that is the true measure of the Despair of Nurgle. That even in the myriad dark rainbow of Chaos, the literal embodiment of wild possibility, there is no escape from the curse of plodding departmental heads...

 frightnight wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I have to disagree. Nurgle hasn't always been "jolly" at all. Wickedly sinister/creepy? Sure. Smiley faced? perhaps, but not jolly. But then I got my Nurgle exposure from Plague Daemon back from the late 80's.

I hate the names, but I don't use any of the god awful GW nomenclature of late. I think paintjobs could save some of these models. There's a difference between a sick and twisted grin...and a caricature cartoon of silliness.

Then as someone, like me, who's old enough to have seen Lost and the Damned, I refer you to the two page story in there where the Great Unclean One is the master of a traveling carnival and is fatherly, generous, and yes, jolly. Nurgle is both the despair of disease and the joy of living another day in the face of death. Horrible, smallpoxy death.

Yeah, I'll take the Plague Daemon version then.

I always loved the original Beast of Nurgle fluff where they were happy and puppy like and couldn't understand why their new playmates always went all stiff and boring after being vigorously licked

 Flinty wrote:
I always loved the original Beast of Nurgle fluff where they were happy and puppy like and couldn't understand why their new playmates always went all stiff and boring after being vigorously licked

That's amazing.

I don't mind the new fluff aside from the practicality of carrying heads to throw and I don't like some of the newer models that go with it.

pm713 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
I always loved the original Beast of Nurgle fluff where they were happy and puppy like and couldn't understand why their new playmates always went all stiff and boring after being vigorously licked

That's amazing.

I don't mind the new fluff aside from the practicality of carrying heads to throw

Uh... that isn't new either. The Death Head of Nurgle was a magic item in Lost and the Damned along side the Palanquin and Staff of Nurgle.

I've also seen it used semi-historically in historical fiction, with warriors keeping a worthy enemy's head, preserving it, and throwing it at future enemies as an insult or curse.

pm713 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
I always loved the original Beast of Nurgle fluff where they were happy and puppy like and couldn't understand why their new playmates always went all stiff and boring after being vigorously licked

That's amazing.

I don't mind the new fluff aside from the practicality of carrying heads to throw and I don't like some of the newer models that go with it.

I prefer the snot puppies myself. But hey. It's chaos. Surely there's room for both the old and new versions!

So recently I was made aware that the Eldar goddess Isha was saved by Slaanesh and before her fate came about. Nurgle attacked and stole the Eldar goddess away.

Now she sits in a cage and Nurgle develops his latest contagion/plague. He then infects his 'pet'. As the goddess of life and healing she recovers from each of his 'gifts' to her.

Upon seeing the results and how much she suffers and how long for her to recover impresses upon Nurgle if that disease is worthy to release in the materium.

Meanwhile Isha whispers the cures to those diseases to the mortals so that they can find a cure.

How does this fluff mesh with Nurgle as a creepy sadist or more of a old creature with a heart???

I actually kind of like the direction GW is going with the models of Nurgle stuff, but the name "Sloppity Bilepiper" is just cringeworthy. I seriously facepalmed when I heard that one. Right up there with Biologus Putrifier and Noxious Blightbringer. The models are ace, but GW should fire whoever is making up the names.

Nurgle loves jokes, but they will all kill you.

As I recall the Beasts of Nurgle become bitter over time because they are avoided by people who do not want to be crushed to death and over time this "plants a seed of bitterness." They lay themselves in the Garden of Nurgle where their bodies are cocooned by the flies of the garden. Eventually a Plague Drone bursts from it's former body. In their new form they are hateful and will try to hunt down any unfortunate soul that killed them in the past, and then consume them whole. Their unfortunate victim will spend eternity in the belly of these flies.

 admironheart wrote:
So recently I was made aware that the Eldar goddess Isha was saved by Slaanesh and before her fate came about. Nurgle attacked and stole the Eldar goddess away.

Now she sits in a cage and Nurgle develops his latest contagion/plague. He then infects his 'pet'. As the goddess of life and healing she recovers from each of his 'gifts' to her.

Upon seeing the results and how much she suffers and how long for her to recover impresses upon Nurgle if that disease is worthy to release in the materium.

Meanwhile Isha whispers the cures to those diseases to the mortals so that they can find a cure.

How does this fluff mesh with Nurgle as a creepy sadist or more of a old creature with a heart???

Nurgle's smothering "kindness" is lethal to normal people, and Nurgle does not seem to know or care. That is precisely how Beasts of Nurgle kill, with their lethal overpowering friendliness.

With Isha, I would imagine it is similar. He saved Isha from Slaanesh, yes, but keeps her in a cage, perhaps justified as to make sure she doesn't get "lost" in the Garden or risk being caught by Slaanesh again. His gifts of diseases to her is like his gift of diseases to his followers. He sees himself as sharing a good thing, and though she heals herself of them in time, he tries again to make an even better gift to give her.

Nurgle loves Isha in his own way.

 Galas wrote:
You have Slaanesh for your BDSM kinky chaos God. Let Nurgle be happy. He's the only happy thing in all of warhammer.

That is not true. Imperium is happiness. Happiness is mandatory. Mandatory is set by the Emperor. The Emperor protects.