Switch Theme:

Activating Heroic Intervention  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




If an enemy unit charges one of your characters and there are no other units involved or nearby can that character make a heroic intervention? Can you make a heroism c intervention if you are in base contact with an enemy and simply choose not to move? Can a character who was already engaged with an enemy unit at the start of your opponents turn make a heroic intervention if nothing in his combat area changed?

For reference:
Heroic Intervention
A er the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any
of your Characters that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a Heroic Intervention. Any that do so can move up to 3", so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model.

My interpretation here is that any character in a combat or within 3” of an enemy may make this intervention. You may have a unit simply standing 2” from an enemy and have them intervene at the end of the charge phase thus creating a combat! A strict reading seems to me that you can call heroic intervention if you’re in base contact with an enemy, you just can’t choose to move since you can’t get any closer and that the restriction on movement.
I’m looking for some consensus on clarity on whether this is as easy to trigger as it seems, I’m looking at the Blood Angels +1 to wound rolls and it seems that characters should almost always have it active.

Edit:spelling

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/01 15:07:47


 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




The unit your trying to intervene into has to have made a charge move before you can use HI. So, if you're already in combat or the unit just moves within 3" of you you can't trigger the strategy.
   
Made in kr
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller






your mind

I think that if the character is already in base to base contact with another model then it cannot move 3" to intervene in another combat. If already engaged then unable to intervene in anything besides the combat that it is already a part of. SO:

1) If an enemy unit charges one of your characters and there are no other units involved or nearby can that character make a heroic intervention?

No.

2) Can you make a heroism c intervention if you are in base contact with an enemy and simply choose not to move?

No.

3) Can a character who was already engaged with an enemy unit at the start of your opponents turn make a heroic intervention if nothing in his combat area changed?

No.


   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





Yes, that's how heroic intervention works now. There is no requirement for them to Heroically Intervene a unit that charged or a unit that is already within 1" of an enemy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/01 14:27:36


Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 jeff white wrote:

1) If an enemy unit charges one of your characters and there are no other units involved or nearby can that character make a heroic intervention?

No.

2) Can you make a heroism c intervention if you are in base contact with an enemy and simply choose not to move?

No.

3) Can a character who was already engaged with an enemy unit at the start of your opponents turn make a heroic intervention if nothing in his combat area changed?

No.



Would you be willing to explain why you think the answer is no to these questions? Lots of people I’ve talked to in person say similar things but can’t back it up with a why. The HI rule isn’t a long or complicated one yet in many games people tell me I’m doing something wrong or don’t understand the restrictions on it and it seems to me those restrictions don’t exist. It’s pretty well evidenced by the fact that over 3 replies I got three different options.

My hope for this thread is to take away a clear understanding of the uses and limits of HI and hopefully a reasoned way I can use to explain it to others.
   
Made in de
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Germany

A character who already is in base to base contact with the enemy cannot move any closer towards the nearest enemy model. You cant move closer than 0".
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




p5freak wrote:
A character who already is in base to base contact with the enemy cannot move any closer towards the nearest enemy model. You cant move closer than 0".


Surely the move is optional though?
   
Made in es
Furious Fire Dragon





Worth to notice the rule must be performed after the enemy player completed ALL their charge moves. (wich means only can be performed in the oponent phase not yours)

And only if you have a character that is within 3" of an enemy unit. (wich work as a pseudo pre-pile in move in order to bring your character to a fight phase they would otherwise miss it )

about your questions.

1: Character received the charge, you can perform a heroic intervention but this is resolved the same as a pile in move so it's pretty much irrelevant (as you'll be already in base to base)

2: You are in base to base with an enemy , *again you can perform an Heroic intervention RAW wise* but since it forces you to move closer to the enemy and you can't move closer than Base to base, it's pretty much irrelevant since you can't move the character in any meaningful way.

3: No because as the rule properly point you can only perform Heroic intervention *when your oponnent has completed all of their charge moves* so it only can be resolved in the opponent fight phase not at the beginning of their Turn (wich falls before movement is done)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/01 15:58:58


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




In example 3 I meant that assuming nothing relevant happens for their turn and they make no charges. Edit: ... and you want to HI at the appropriate time, not the start of turn.

This is all relevant because Blood Angels receive +1 to their wound rolls if they charge, we’re charged or made a heroic intervention.
Looking at this I can see no reason a BA character would not always be receiving this bonus on your opponents turn. (The exception being when they are piled or consolidated into and we’re not charged or already in combat.)

Again on example 3 my assumption is that I can still HI once my opponent declares no charges since they are then done with charging.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/01 16:04:23


 
   
Made in de
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Germany

There are no completed charges if the enemy didnt charge. No HI for you.
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon





USA

Lets take this in another vein.

So if You make a heroic intervention....does that count as a charge? for the purposes of who fights in what order?

Because even if you did not move then your previously engaged character would bump up in the sequence of the Fight phase resolution?

So does HI count as charging?

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought






No. It would say so if it did.

I scratch-built a Macharius, Thunderbolt, Spartan, Land Raider and more! Have a peek at the build and my painting progress here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/513429.page

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Why are you guys all so obviously falling for that guy's trolling?
He's just one random guy on the internet with an opinion that is laughably divorced from reality. Move along.

 
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Gargant





 admironheart wrote:
Lets take this in another vein.

So if You make a heroic intervention....does that count as a charge? for the purposes of who fights in what order?

Because even if you did not move then your previously engaged character would bump up in the sequence of the Fight phase resolution?

So does HI count as charging?
No, it doesn't.

Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written in the rulebook, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective.
Because some people get their knickers in a twist, I'll list these RaW 'oddities' in my sig. Sadly GW's promise of fixing their broken rules has itself been broken. RaW you cannot advance and then fire assault weapons, you can't shoot pistols if within 1" of an enemy, "minimum" ranges don't work, Seraphim have to re-roll saves that "fail" pre-re-roll, the game simply breaks if you ever have more than one wounded model in a unit, the game also breaks if a single rule ever tries to do multiple things simultaneously, Khârn punches himself in the face if he's not near some meatshields, Librarians on Bikes are locked to the Index power list, Howling Banshees can't declare a charge further than 12", Spore Mines have an infinite range, Shroudpsalm technically doesn't do anything, only enemy models, not friendly models, have permission to move on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad, T'au have access to stackable Ignore Wounds (albeit against Mortal Wounds only), the T'au Early Warning Override Support System only works if a unit is "teleporting to the battlefield", not just arriving mid-battle, Genestealer Cults can no longer move after ambushing, you can only ever use the Deathwatch Teleportarium Stratagem "once", and then never again in any battle after you use it, single use weapons MUST be fired the first time a model shoots if they are in range and LOS, if a model splits fire, each weapon must target a different unit, the Agents of Vect stratagem can be used by ANY Drukhari army, not just one with a Kabal of the Black Heart detachment, a Tyrant Guard with Lashwhip can absorb an infinite amount of damage via Shieldwall between the time they die and the time they fight, Chapter Tactics on Successor Chapters don't actually do anything, Codex Leman Russ's can take an infinite amount of Hunter-Killer Missiles, Storm Bolters and Heavy Stubbers, and Imothekh's 'Lord of the Storm' ability hits the "target unit" twice.
--- Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities --- Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. --- 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Okay, in the interest of visual aids I've made an image (attached) detailing some examples of uses of HI. I've phrased some parts as questions since there seems to be disagreement but my reading of HI is that it CAN be used in all examples.
 Filename HeroicConfusion.png [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 62 Kbytes

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The unit your trying to intervene into has to have made a charge move before you can use HI. So, if you're already in combat or the unit just moves within 3" of you you can't trigger the strategy.

Where does it state that?
All it requires is that he enemy has completed all their charges, and the character is within 3” of a unit. Not a unit that’s charged, or any other stipulation.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




It appears that I misread the OP's post.
   
Made in fi
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Yeah, it could be argued that 'all charges' can be zero charges. The sentence merely is for timing of HI.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought






 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, it could be argued that 'all charges' can be zero charges. The sentence merely is for timing of HI.


IF that was the intent the wording would surely be "at the end of the Charge Phase". As they specified after all Charge Moves have been made I'm inclined to believe it requires a charging unit to be allowed to do a HI. That's the thematic thrust anyway... your unit gets charged, the boss dives in to help. It's not intended to be a free move because you just ended up near-but-not-near-enough-to-fight in your own turn.

That or it's lazy colloquial wording that means "at the end of the Charge Phase". Who knows!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/02 21:49:21


I scratch-built a Macharius, Thunderbolt, Spartan, Land Raider and more! Have a peek at the build and my painting progress here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/513429.page

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Why are you guys all so obviously falling for that guy's trolling?
He's just one random guy on the internet with an opinion that is laughably divorced from reality. Move along.

 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





I'm inclined to believe that your opponent doesn't need to have performed any charges for you to carry out a Heroic Intervention.

There is this from the designers commentary:
Q: Can Characters only perform a Heroic Intervention against enemy units that charged this turn, or can they do so against any enemy unit?
A: They can do so against any enemy unit.
Note that they can only do so if they end up closer to the nearest enemy model, whether it charged this turn or not.


So the written rule, that you can intervene against any enemy unit not just one that charged, appears to be the intended rule as well. And if a change against a unit 6 feet away up the other end of the table can trigger an intervention then it seems as logical/thematic that no charges can also trigger one, which is how I read the rule as written. The rule does seem to just allow an extra 3" of movement for a character. Which I admit is odd, and isn't what I would call a heroic intervention, but there you go.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 20:42:54


DR:70S+G++MB+IPw40k87/f+D++A+WD087R+T(R)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon





USA

Does the character even need to be able to get into hth to use any of the 3" move....or just closer to the enemy???

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Well, they have to be within 3", so by definition they have to be able to get within 1" of the enemy to heroically intervene. They don't have to end the move within 1", though, so you could opt to move from 3" away to 1.5" away if you wanted to get slightly closer but not get into fighting distance for some reason.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: