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I kinda threw this thought in the Black Templar thread but figured it needed its own thread.

Obviously Iron Hands are lacking. The question is what would be a good secondary characteristic to add that wouldn't be broken. I propose a simple fix to add to their 6+++ mechanic.
Iron Hands models ignore the -1 To Hit Penalty from moving and firing Heavy Weapons. It isn't broken, it's usable for lots of squads, and makes them more focused without being super specific.

Thoughts?

Sounds fair enough, it'd make their Dreads a bit better which is fluffy.

idk..
it sunds more like a dread spesific trait then a multi role trait, and im not shure if their dreads(from a fluff point) are any better then other chapters..

it aint easy to come up whit traits that reflects the nature of IH cuz whit all their binoic upgrades they should be "better" then any other chapter.

It's almost like you're relegated to giving them old school slow and purposeful type rules or giving them an extra wound. Altho the latter isn't necessarily fluffy as being shot through the chest would have the same impact bionic or not. Would feel no pain or at least immunity to poison make sense? They should get adeptus mechanics type bonuses maybe?

I agree, the 6+ wound save aint reflecting the chapter either.
Something in the line of add 1 to the diceroll for BS, WS and leadership. it would suite the fluff more but idk if that would be too powerfull.

I too tought about a general bonus of some sort if you include a detatchment of admechs in your IH army, but i have not the slightest idea of what that could possibly be.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I kinda threw this thought in the Black Templar thread but figured it needed its own thread.

Obviously Iron Hands are lacking. The question is what would be a good secondary characteristic to add that wouldn't be broken. I propose a simple fix to add to their 6+++ mechanic.
Iron Hands models ignore the -1 To Hit Penalty from moving and firing Heavy Weapons. It isn't broken, it's usable for lots of squads, and makes them more focused without being super specific.

Thoughts?

so... make them death guard?

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I kinda threw this thought in the Black Templar thread but figured it needed its own thread.

Obviously Iron Hands are lacking. The question is what would be a good secondary characteristic to add that wouldn't be broken. I propose a simple fix to add to their 6+++ mechanic.
Iron Hands models ignore the -1 To Hit Penalty from moving and firing Heavy Weapons. It isn't broken, it's usable for lots of squads, and makes them more focused without being super specific.

Thoughts?

so... make them death guard?

Death Guard have a lot more bonuses so I'm not sure what the point of your post is other than not being a good criticism.

Do you have a better idea?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I kinda threw this thought in the Black Templar thread but figured it needed its own thread.

Obviously Iron Hands are lacking. The question is what would be a good secondary characteristic to add that wouldn't be broken. I propose a simple fix to add to their 6+++ mechanic.
Iron Hands models ignore the -1 To Hit Penalty from moving and firing Heavy Weapons. It isn't broken, it's usable for lots of squads, and makes them more focused without being super specific.

Thoughts?

I like this. Helps dreads. Makes regular heavy weapon marines feel like they have bionic limbs lugging bulky weapons around or like they have cyborg eyes with advanced targeters compensating for their movement. I'd be totally okay playing against this.

I agree that the 6+ FNP doesn't necessarily convey their flavor as well as it could, but giving a flat stat boost to all IH marines seems a bit much. Perhaps IH should have a stratagem that lets you target an IH unit within X" of a tech marine and raise their WS/BS for t he duration of the turn. The idea being that the tech marine is uploading calculated fire solutions or passing on analyzed weakness in enemy stances and equipment to the unit. Very fluffy, and it gives you a reason to field a tech marine.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
it aint easy to come up whit traits that reflects the nature of IH cuz whit all their binoic upgrades they should be "better" then any other chapter.

I'm not sure it's actually been established in the fluff whether bionics are actually better for an Iron Hands marine; remember you're talking about an already highly engineered super soldier wearing power armour here, so it doesn't really matter much what they've got going on inside that armour. Feel No Pain makes some degree of sense if you assume that it doesn't matter if they lose bionics, since their black carapace does most of the work anyway. I definitely don't think there's an automatic bionics = better consensus, because basic Skitarii for example are only marginally better than unaugmented humans, most of their improvement comes from being networked and have some tasty equipment.


So on that basis I think no penalty for moving and shooting Heavy weapons is very reasonable; I know it's not quite established whether Iron Hands dreadnoughts should be better, but you can argue it on the basis that Iron Hands marines are more like dreadnought pilots by the time they're interred, so they're already experienced at fighting mostly through an interface. Plus there are supposed to be Iron hands characters that are dreadnoughts, which is why I'm always annoyed when another update comes around and GW don't release a single special character for the chapter. The Iron Hands aspire towards becoming Dreadnoughts so I imagine there'd be a lot of competition, and only the best gets to become one, or they have a bunch of sarcophagi to choose from each time they send dreadnoughts into battle.

Adding some sort of regenerating a wound per turn, like some other facitons have access to for characters wouldn't be too much of a stretch either

Wyldhunt wrote:


Perhaps IH should have a stratagem that lets you target an IH unit within X" of a tech marine and raise their WS/BS for t he duration of the turn. The idea being that the tech marine is uploading calculated fire solutions or passing on analyzed weakness in enemy stances and equipment to the unit. Very fluffy, and it gives you a reason to field a tech marine.

my toughts was to add a army bonus of some sorts to IH if you added a detatchment of cult/skitarii. your idea is mutch better then my thinking as it dont complicate or make things unfair.
but it dosent realy solve the problems that OP describes. (im in the prossess of making my fluff army so i would never know what "issues" IH has on the table)

 Haravikk wrote:

I'm not sure it's actually been established in the fluff whether bionics are actually better for an Iron Hands marine; remember you're talking about an already highly engineered super soldier wearing power armour here, so it doesn't really matter much what they've got going on inside that armour.
The Iron Hands aspire towards becoming Dreadnoughts so I imagine there'd be a lot of competition, and only the best gets to become one, or they have a bunch of sarcophagi to choose from each time they send dreadnoughts into battle.

i might be nitpicking that idea, but shouldent "metal" replacments be in all ways possible "better" then "human" organic material even for a space marine?
or am i toutching a flavor of the SM fluff that simply cant be brough to the table as it would be to consuming to balance?

as for the dreads, idk if the chapter have been properly resupplyed yet according to the fluff but I atleast would like to belive, that of all the official chapters, IH was the chapter that procured the moust dreads and thus has alot of them.