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Given the number of new units we expect (we lose deamons but they are only a pair of pages), could be possible a codex more in line with C:SM in number of pages? That would be a good step towards Legions-Renegades split codexes. If they really plan to release all the models together (or in very close waves at least) they should picture more painted minis, so there are more pages filled.

96 pages codexes have always seemed small to me.

Hmm. Still waiting for more data, but from the latest rumor dump, I have to say it's a bit...underwhelming.

Everything that is CC-oriented feels too expensive and not quite good enough to make up for the nerfed CC rules of the new edition.

Kharn being AP 3 makes him rather redundant.

So far no new fun ranged weapons, just the old combis on everything.

Mauler Oblits better be really cheap, or they are simply not worth it. Why bother with a small unit that can only ride in Land Raiders, has crappy inv saves and dies easily to plasma and enemy MCs when you can have berserkers with -way- more S5 attacks or (apparently) get regular CSM with a mark/Icon combo that makes them I5 and Rage? Though I guess adding an IC can allow for some nasty wound allocation games...

Ahriman and Thousand Sons actually seem really decent, though lack of overwatch is a pain. Here's hoping the CSM psyker powers are fun.

Daemon Weapons at AP 3 and still whacking you in the face is a sad waste of a good idea.

Abaddon is still a bit question mark. Good that he is AP2, but does he affect the army in any way?

Good that the flyer is Fast assault. I was sort of crossing my figners for a second flyer (Hell Talon), though. Hopefully the Forge World integration thing will be true and add some variety.

Shame that they didn't give chaos bikes a bit of extra punch.

Terminators pay -more- for Marks? That's just weird. To prevent super-units with double-deities and the right IC, I figure.

As for the Eye of the gods Table....sweet holy tzeentch. You roll on a table to determine another table to roll? I think someone at GW has a serious gambling problem and playing the roulette, the horses and the lottery just isn't enough.

Good on the new Land Raider variant. Though I wonder if it can do its bunkerbuster assault thing after moving 12 inches; it's not going to last 6 inches away from the eney fortification within spitting distance of every melta in the world.

Overall? It really feels like they took the 5th edition Vanilla Codex and 'translated' it to Chaos Marines.

Rivet wrote:I was never really a fan of the land raider. In fact, I think I am less so even if it can carry 16 people (it is no longer an assault vehicle is it, are we still able to assault out of it? if not, then what is the point?!)

It is still an assault vehicle. The only thing is you can't disembark if you move more than 6"

Phragonist wrote:

Rivet wrote:I was never really a fan of the land raider. In fact, I think I am less so even if it can carry 16 people (it is no longer an assault vehicle is it, are we still able to assault out of it? if not, then what is the point?!)

...where are you getting your information from. AFAIK it IS indeed still an assault vehicle

I thought the Chaos FAQ removed the portion that called it an assault vehicle.

Sephyr wrote:
Overall? It really feels like they took the 5th edition Vanilla Codex and 'translated' it to Chaos Marines.

If you were right, it would be a good codex. Maybe not the best one, but who wants an overpowered codex flying over our heads? And I'm not saying this will be a bad codex, I like almost everything I'm reading.

Rivet wrote:
I thought the Chaos FAQ removed the portion that called it an assault vehicle.

It says no such thing. Back in 5th they removed the section on an assault ramp and just classified it as an assault vehicle. I'm looking forward to using one so my Berserkers can rush out of it.

From the FAQ:
Page 44 - Chaos Land Raider, Assault Vehicle.
Ignore this entry - refer to the Warhammer 40,00 rulebook.

Now does it still say you can assault out of a land raider in the BRB? If so I missed that and I apologize for the misunderstanding. However, I thought it says in the BRB that you cannot assault after disembarking and I saw no exception to this except for open topped vehicles.

I've been waiting a long time for this...

I think FAQ says we must ignore the explanation about what is an assault vehicle given in page 44 (passengers can assault in the same turn they disembark) and use the explanation of assault vehicle given in BRB: passengers that disembarked using access points (maybe to prevent emergency disembark) can assault in that turn even if the vehicle was destroyed. The new rule just clarifies the old rule but they still can assault.

Saying they can't fit all the necessary Legion rules into this Codex - that just doesn't ring true.

Especially since I thought they basically said that is what wold be happening with this book after the relative failure of the last CSM Codex in terms of representing the legions?

Check you mail people, maelstrom games got a GW voucher, just got skulltaker and term lord with some brushes I need to get the chaos ready

Shame it doesnt last till the new codex

Sephyr wrote:

Ahriman and Thousand Sons actually seem really decent, though lack of overwatch is a pain. Here's hoping the CSM psyker powers are fun.

Rumor said if sorceror is present, they are relentless. If not present, S&P. So, they should be able to overwatch with a sorceror, fwiw.

Green is Best! wrote:

Sephyr wrote:

Ahriman and Thousand Sons actually seem really decent, though lack of overwatch is a pain. Here's hoping the CSM psyker powers are fun.

Rumor said if sorceror is present, they are relentless. If not present, S&P. So, they should be able to overwatch with a sorceror, fwiw.

i am really hoping they will be able to overwatch, that would rock

Rivet wrote:From the FAQ:
Page 44 - Chaos Land Raider, Assault Vehicle.
Ignore this entry - refer to the Warhammer 40,00 rulebook.

Now does it still say you can assault out of a land raider in the BRB? If so I missed that and I apologize for the misunderstanding. However, I thought it says in the BRB that you cannot assault after disembarking and I saw no exception to this except for open topped vehicles.

Assault Vehicles are in the rulebook.

I saw that when taking Typhus you can upgrade cultist with FnP, Fear, and Fearless. Has anymore details been leaked for this? I've been waiting a long time to field some decent zombies in my Nurgle army and if they are really 4 points a piece I'm pretty sure I know what i'll be doing..

I like a lot of what Im seeing so far.

If the rumours are right it will mean a bog standard seven-man plague marine squad is slightly more expensive points wise.

MetalOxide wrote:If the rumours are right it will mean a bog standard seven-man plague marine squad is slightly more expensive points wise.

Given the fact that they now have poison attacks and can throw blight grenades, perhaps the cost bump is warranted.

We all know only one army gets to have amazing all-rounder troops for 20 points a piece.

*mumbles like the Joker*

I want it.. I wonna it now.. I want it... *drools*

Ahriman sounds mean (nice to know he's actually the number one psyker in the game now, a title that has been about a decade over due). I might have to re-start my thousand sons army, although Khorne doesn't sound like its been let down.

The Lords make cults troops has been in before, so nothing new there. Chaos vehicles now sound awfully mean, it's going to empty my wallet picking up one or two new ones, thankfully i've still got twin defilers and a land raider from the old days.

Love the idea of the dragon flyer, made to eat other flyers and the purely CC obliterators.

All in all the rumours are sounding like a far more viable codex so far that might actually have a few more competitive list's to it without a staple slannesh unit. 3.5 tamed and clarified, but we'll have to wait until September to find out!

*banks money and saves*

Semper wrote:
Ahriman sounds mean (nice to know he's actually the number one psyker in the game now, a title that has been about a decade over due)

Come now, I think we all know the next loyalist codex will have a guy 1-2 mastery levels higher

I'm still upset about no Cult Termies but I'm looking forward to Marked vehicles. Wonder if a Tzeentchy Dreadnought is a psyker?

The newest batch of rumors seems pretty solid, at least based on what we were given. Is it going to be the end all, be all of codices? No, but it sounds like it will definitely make Chaos a little more viable.

I think my honeymoon with the Blood Angels might just be over.

@ pretre ~ you are going to have your hands full when it comes to updating the rumor reliablility thread after this. So many people have said so many things.

Despite all the grumblings etc. i for one am not overly upset about the lack of cult termis. As long as i can give them the right mark to give them some of the same ability, i am happy.

Typhus and the zombie cultists sounds almost too good to be true If Ward was writting this codex they would no doubt all get the it will not die USR or something equally stupid. I am glad he's not writting this dex. Over the top cheese is so boring.

The chaos landraider variant sounds nice. Dont some of the loyalist raiders get a 16 man carrying capacity. Something of equal level would be nice. Not sure if bunkerbusting is really necessary in this edition, but i would love to see something like the flamestorm cannon.

sennacherib wrote:@ pretre ~ you are going to have your hands full when it comes to updating the rumor reliablility thread after this. So many people have said so many things.

It's already updated. I update it each morning when I get into work and am starting my day (plus throughout the day). The part that will suck is when the codex comes out and I have to T/F all of those.

Sephyr wrote:

MetalOxide wrote:If the rumours are right it will mean a bog standard seven-man plague marine squad is slightly more expensive points wise.

Given the fact that they now have poison attacks and can throw blight grenades, perhaps the cost bump is warranted.

We all know only one army gets to have amazing all-rounder troops for 20 points a piece.

Yeah, I suppose that's true, I really hope they get some new special weapons, like poison bile throwers (flamers) or something

So sad..... I was hoping for beefed up Spawns. I love those models... Maybe the new Possessed will be playable. and what about Daemons :(

Adrian Fue Fue wrote:So sad..... I was hoping for beefed up Spawns. I love those models... Maybe the new Possessed will be playable. and what about Daemons :(

Daemons are a non-issue; they're meant to be allied in, and I like that a lot. Nobody asked about Spawns because unfortunately not many people care about them. We'll have to wait and see on them!

Daemons are out, because you're supposed to use allies for them now, which is fair.

What would make spawn work. How about a 3++ and attacks count as power weapons. Yeah, then people would use them.

@ pretre ~ thanks for all your hard work. I know i am waiting eagerly to find out if any of what darkgeneral said was true (since i know him i hope he's got some reliability).

A chaos version of the land raider redeemer would be nice

MetalOxide wrote:A chaos version of the land raider redeemer would be nice

I'd just simply Nurglize it myself.

Much easier to do.