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Hopefully Abaddon get something else, his 275pt cost was never justified in the last codex and his daemon weapon was just as liable to kill him as an enemy unit. In recent Codexes HQ's have been given alot more utility. Look at space wolves or even all the new Necron HQs. 275 is just a bit too much for a simple beat stick that does not bring anything to help the army as a whole.

You can mix/match Marks and Icons.

Say what now? You don’t mean mixing the Marks and Icons of different Chaos Gods in the same unit, do you? Like Khorne-marked troops bearing an Icon of Slaanesh? Or Tzeentch-marked Troops sporting an Icon of Nurgle?

I really, really, really hope that isn’t the case.

I have a feeling the Marks will be proper marks and the icons will have some other kind of name to allow for mixing as much as you want. FNP marines that have +1 initiative can represent bondage marines of Slaanesh, FNP or +1 T marines can be combined with the rage bonus to be marines dedicated to Nurgle who are enraged by fever, etc etc. Options are there, it won't necessarily be Khorne and Slaanesh mixed, but rather a custom built unit dedicated to khorne. Hell, Rage for increased attacks mixed with FNP can also be Khorne troops who have been lobotomized to ignore pain. It's up to the player to fluff it up for themselves. Actually, this mixed mark/icon thing sounds truly awesome.

In my mind (which really means nothing lol) I believe that Abaddon should be at least on par with how awesome Draigo is if not more so... I really hope GW doesn't just make him some super overpriced fluff character

I'm wondering if Abaddon will have his chosen-terminator bodyguard as an option to purchase for him?

I really can't see him just walking out alone without his loyal cohort and then trying to join a squad on the battlefield....

Zachilles wrote:In my mind (which really means nothing lol) I believe that Abaddon should be at least on par with how awesome Draigo is if not more so... I really hope GW doesn't just make him some super overpriced fluff character

Pfft... Abaddon started his career out doing the bidding of primarchs and now just bargains with them to borrow forces for his Black Crusades. Draigo tags his initials into Primarchs on days he's bored! *runs for the 5+ Ward save hills*

Here is the last thing posted by the guy answering questions about the CSM codex on Faeit 212's blog.

"As of July 25th, CSM book is set to release in September along with the starter (though not the same week)."

I hope that is true!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

You can mix/match Marks and Icons.

Say what now? You don’t mean mixing the Marks and Icons of different Chaos Gods in the same unit, do you? Like Khorne-marked troops bearing an Icon of Slaanesh? Or Tzeentch-marked Troops sporting an Icon of Nurgle?

I really, really, really hope that isn’t the case.

The only way I can rationalize this in my mind is that only the Marks are god specific, well the different icons are Generic Undivided Chaos relic thingys now. Mutiple sources have said the basic CSM box is being recut/redone, so would let them redo the icons to look less god specific.

Yah. That was all just speculation, but it's enough to let me give the new system a chance anyway.

Here's a thought. If CSM can take Daemons as summoned allies, I'm wondering if we'd still be limited to the Allies FOC and requirements (i.e. 1 HQ 1 troops, before expanded FOC can be taken) or whether Chaos gets an exception to this rule. I don't want to have to take a Greater Daemon or a Codex: Daemons Daemon Prince just to take a squad of Plaguebearers or Bloodletters, for example...

Don`t worry, Enigwolf! Daemon princes in codex:Chaos Daemons are heavy support

Lockark wrote:The only way I can rationalize this in my mind is that only the Marks are god specific, well the different icons are Generic Undivided Chaos relic thingys now. Mutiple sources have said the basic CSM box is being recut/redone, so would let them redo the icons to look less god specific.

That would make sense (or, at least, make sense to us). If the Icons are "Icon of Special Rule X" and "Icon of Special Rule Y", then ok fine. They're not God-specific. I could easily live with that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Lockark wrote:The only way I can rationalize this in my mind is that only the Marks are god specific, well the different icons are Generic Undivided Chaos relic thingys now. Mutiple sources have said the basic CSM box is being recut/redone, so would let them redo the icons to look less god specific.

That would make sense (or, at least, make sense to us). If the Icons are "Icon of Special Rule X" and "Icon of Special Rule Y", then ok fine. They're not God-specific. I could easily live with that.

Yeah, this is what I'm hoping for. For example, I'd give my Word Bearers FnP and Fearless, to represent their fanaticism being so strong they just ignore injury.

BDJV wrote:Here is the last thing posted by the guy answering questions about the CSM codex on Faeit 212's blog.

"As of July 25th, CSM book is set to release in September along with the starter (though not the same week)."

I hope that is true!

Highly unlikely.

TBD wrote:

BDJV wrote:Here is the last thing posted by the guy answering questions about the CSM codex on Faeit 212's blog.

"As of July 25th, CSM book is set to release in September along with the starter (though not the same week)."

I hope that is true!

Highly unlikely.

The rumor on this is that GW has a backlog and that it'll be difficult to get CSM released, because of the large volume of kits, if they don't.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And the Cult Terminator problem wouldn't be a problem if special rules were gained via Marks rather than being inherent to the unit. Remove 1KSons, Plague Marines, 'Zerkers and Noise Marines as distinct entries and instead change it to Marines + Mark = Cult Troop Type. That way the same rules can apply to Terminators (Terminator + Mark of Nurgle = Plague Terminators, Marines + Mark of Tzeentch = 1kSons marines, etc.).

I think you'd actually need two different Tzeentch upgrades: one for Thousand Sons Rubric marines, and one for non-Rubric marines.

AlexHolker wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:And the Cult Terminator problem wouldn't be a problem if special rules were gained via Marks rather than being inherent to the unit. Remove 1KSons, Plague Marines, 'Zerkers and Noise Marines as distinct entries and instead change it to Marines + Mark = Cult Troop Type. That way the same rules can apply to Terminators (Terminator + Mark of Nurgle = Plague Terminators, Marines + Mark of Tzeentch = 1kSons marines, etc.).

I think you'd actually need two different Tzeentch upgrades: one for Thousand Sons Rubric marines, and one for non-Rubric marines.

That's true. Not every tzeentchy marine has to be a rubric one neither every slaanesh follower is a noise marine. As it is now, maybe doesn't reflect exactly the personality of those great legions, but keeps doors open to other options. This is the lesser of two evils. Of course, separate Legions-Renegades Codexes would solve it.

Spartan089 wrote:Hopefully Abaddon get something else, his 275pt cost was never justified in the last codex and his daemon weapon was just as liable to kill him as an enemy unit. In recent Codexes HQ's have been given alot more utility. Look at space wolves or even all the new Necron HQs. 275 is just a bit too much for a simple beat stick that does not bring anything to help the army as a whole.

In 5th edition, Abaddon could pound any other IC into the ground. If his weapons are brought to AP2, you can expect to see the same in 6th. The only thing that could hope to beat him was a necron lord with mindshackle.

Abaddon did have his counters -- like a squad of TH/SS termies, but pound for pound he was the nastyiest IC in the game.

Until the new codex comes out, Abbadon is not as nasty. He's worth ~200 points currently IMHO as he barely edges out over Lysander in a duel. If they lower his weapons to AP2, then he will go back to 'beating face' status.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Enigwolf wrote:Here's a thought. If CSM can take Daemons as summoned allies, I'm wondering if we'd still be limited to the Allies FOC and requirements (i.e. 1 HQ 1 troops, before expanded FOC can be taken) or whether Chaos gets an exception to this rule. I don't want to have to take a Greater Daemon or a Codex: Daemons Daemon Prince just to take a squad of Plaguebearers or Bloodletters, for example...

You say that like its a bad thing. Fateweaver is a huge force multiplier for any army that can use his ability.

A bloodthirster is not just a counter-assault unit, its a counter-"clobber you into the ground" unit.

Starfarer wrote:
You guys are flipping out over a "rumor" from the comment section of Faeit 212 for god sakes.

I have been waiting for this Codex to drop so I can get back into the game. After a year and half of reading BL books, I am itching. But yes, they are all rumors. To me it only makes sense that the Codex would incorporate ever signle type of build that a player could ever dream of. A warband, a World Eaters legion company that didnt shatter after the HH, Alpha mofo's that have culty homeboys plus41st century gear and a tad of class (cause they planned it that way) or some Night Lords and Word Bearers that teamed up to go drop some hurt on everybody cause thats what the type of pasta gravy they really dig.

Its all rumors.

But lets all pray.

-Lando

labmouse42 wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Enigwolf wrote:Here's a thought. If CSM can take Daemons as summoned allies, I'm wondering if we'd still be limited to the Allies FOC and requirements (i.e. 1 HQ 1 troops, before expanded FOC can be taken) or whether Chaos gets an exception to this rule. I don't want to have to take a Greater Daemon or a Codex: Daemons Daemon Prince just to take a squad of Plaguebearers or Bloodletters, for example...

You say that like its a bad thing. Fateweaver is a huge force multiplier for any army that can use his ability.

A bloodthirster is not just a counter-assault unit, its a counter-"clobber you into the ground" unit.

While true, Fateweaver is also a huge points sink, and a Bloodthirster may do that, in smaller games having to field a Chaos Daemons HQ may not always be the practical choice, especially in low-points games. I just want to be able to daemon-bomb Bloodletters with bikes/raptors again without having to do the full allies requirement. I mean, fluff-wise it doesn't make sense that I'd need to summon Fateweaver or a Bloodthirster just to summon some Bloodletters.

I wasn't planning on using any cultists... but if they are really 4 points a piece, then I might have to.

Enigwolf wrote:While true, Fateweaver is also a huge points sink, and a Bloodthirster may do that, in smaller games having to field a Chaos Daemons HQ may not always be the practical choice, especially in low-points games. I just want to be able to daemon-bomb Bloodletters with bikes/raptors again without having to do the full allies requirement. I mean, fluff-wise it doesn't make sense that I'd need to summon Fateweaver or a Bloodthirster just to summon some Bloodletters.

If your want some bloodletters and don't want the cost, why not just use a herald of khorne?

Honestly though, the troops are the worst thing out of the daemon codex. I would look at those screamers and flamers coming out in the Daemons rumor thread. Those would be useful for anyone.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Phragonist wrote:I wasn't planning on using any cultists... but if they are really 4 points a piece, then I might have to.

I have a 'traitor guard' army that I've been working on. These models can be used for either, which is a nice perk.

AlexHolker wrote:I think you'd actually need two different Tzeentch upgrades: one for Thousand Sons Rubric marines, and one for non-Rubric marines.

You're right. You'd have a Mark of Tzeentch for some, and a Rubric Sign (or whatever) for the other.

I just noticed this: "Daemon princes are jump if they have wings".

Aren't Codex: Chaos Daemons' Daemon Princes FAQ'd to be Flying Monstrous Creatures if winged?

Updated from the Q&A

Enigwolf wrote:I just noticed this: "Daemon princes are jump if they have wings".

Aren't Codex: Chaos Daemons' Daemon Princes FAQ'd to be Flying Monstrous Creatures if winged?

The FAQ for Codex: Daemon's make them Flying Monstrous Creatures.

The FAQ for Codex: Chaos Space Marines make them Jump infantry.

Where did you see Daemon Princes are jump if they have wings? Is it in one of these pictures? Which codex are you referring to?

Enigwolf wrote:I just noticed this: "Daemon princes are jump if they have wings".

Aren't Codex: Chaos Daemons' Daemon Princes FAQ'd to be Flying Monstrous Creatures if winged?

Yes -- Chaos Daemon DPs and CSM DPs are completely different beasts.

The CSM DP can be a psyker. The CSM DP can only move like jump infantry (maybe thier not as big of wings). The CSM DP has built in "Unholy Might" and "Iron Hide", perks that cost the Chaos Daemon DP 50 points.

Chaos Daemon DPs can be flyers, with all the associated perks thereof. Considering how awesome FMCs are right now, that's a strong perk.

labmouse42 wrote:

Enigwolf wrote:I just noticed this: "Daemon princes are jump if they have wings".

Aren't Codex: Chaos Daemons' Daemon Princes FAQ'd to be Flying Monstrous Creatures if winged?

Yes -- Chaos Daemon DPs and CSM DPs are completely different beasts.

The CSM DP can be a psyker. The CSM DP can only move like jump infantry (maybe thier not as big of wings). The CSM DP has built in "Unholy Might" and "Iron Hide", perks that cost the Chaos Daemon DP 50 points.

Chaos Daemon DPs can be flyers, with all the associated perks thereof. Considering how awesome FMCs are right now, that's a strong perk.

Odd. I thought there'd at least be some consistency in the wings.. lol. Maybe this will be updated in the new 'dex so the CSM DP is in-line with the Daemon DP...

I just have to say, reading the excerpts from that live chat makes me a little happier.
Yay:
Cheaper noise marines, marine box getting upgraded to include all weapon types including everyone having sonic blasters, might not have cult terminators but can "build them" (though I have NO terminators atm.. converted them all to obliterators >.<, cultists 4points per model?! Hells yeah!

???:
What do you mean there is going to be a sonic vehicle upgrade that is not Slaaneshi? Who cares about raptors, I mean really? Well ok, maybe they can be cool..., I am going to miss you Daemon Princes, sigh...


Not sure what else...

The mention in the Q&A of a Land Raider variant for Chaos that can hold 16 guys has me excited. I'm wondering what it could be armed with!

I was never really a fan of the land raider. In fact, I think I am less so even if it can carry 16 people (it is no longer an assault vehicle is it, are we still able to assault out of it? if not, then what is the point?!)