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AWesker1976 wrote:Sisters' codex exists in an out of print White Dwarf magazine with no links to a pdf on GW site. So even if someone bought the models, they have no army rule book to consult. Many of the models on GW site have no stats listed on their pages.

For whatever reason, a "lighter" 3rd edition Codex (some fluff removed) is actually still available on the GW website: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050291a_Codex__Witch_Hunters
I recently joked about how long it might take until the community starts to fall back to these 3E rules simply because those are the only ones still available.

AWesker1976 wrote:If Sisters are ever included in other Codex fluff it's only to serve as meat to be slaughtered.

Naw. Off the top of my head, I know the last Black Templars 'dex featured a joint operation where a Canoness fought side by side with a BT Marshal against some daemon.

zmalamuth wrote:you didnt read much novels about "Ciaphas Cain"? entire chapter fell under influence of "Voice of Chaos"(dont have book nearby to check the name) , then fought necrons, and in the end went insane.

I'm sorry, but the author of the Cain books doesn't know gak about the Sisters, or the Ecclesiarchy. Either that, or he simply chose to ignore all the studio fluff about how the Schola Progenium, the Commissariat, and the Adepta Sororitas operate in favour of his own ideas. To me, such a "loose cannon" attitude severely limits my ability to accept some random freelance writer's crazy plots and embed them into my perception of the setting.
Fortunately, the way "canon" in this franchise works, us gamers and readers can simply choose to ignore such crass deviations from more established fluff if we want to.

Let's just note that the 40k setting as a whole isn't portrayed as a single consistent entity, which means that there are times where we have to choose which source to adhere to. The novels you are referring to are not the only licensed products that clash with current GW studio fluff when it comes to certain details. Multilaser Marines anyone?

AWesker1976 wrote:I arrived to the party late, after Codex:Witch Hunters was sliced up to make Codex:Grey Knights, Codex:Sisters, so no I don't have the older codexes...codeces?

Codex GK actually is the follow-up to Codex Daemonhunters, although it took some elements from Codex Witchhunters as well - and it may be of note that the Sisters' first army lists and Codex featured no Inquisition elements whatsoever. It was really just in 3rd edition that this was added - and with 5th edition it was removed again, as the focus on the army reverted back from its Inquisitorial "part-time job" back to their primary Ecclesiarchal duties. You could say that the Sisters have returned to their natural, proper state now. They just still need a proper book to go with it.

Sisters of Battle make more sense with their "free to play exists only to be slaughtered" mindset than IG do. Sisters are a faction that can be paid for to play like marines and eldar, where IG would be difficult to implement that way-- so you pay to play a beter IG and you play as... what, exactly? Officers? They're just as easy to kill as regular guardsmen and aren't any better at killing other things. Vehicles? Yeah, THAT would be implemented well . I mean, don't get me wrong, I like IG... probably a bit too much actually given that most of my fiction is about IG... but the way the devs have described how they're building their game, IG don't sound like they'd work very well. It'd take ten guardsmen to kill a space marine, compared to five orks, and guardsmen don't get stronger quite like Orks do when they progress in rank-- they're still just human, still vulnerable, squishy humans that die in one bolter shot. At least Sisters have power armor and acts of faith to justify their being stronger than the average human, and GW describes Sisters as the Astartes' equal in battle numerous times.

 Melissia wrote:
Sisters of Battle make more sense with their "free to play exists only to be slaughtered" mindset than IG do. Sisters are a faction that can be paid for to play like marines and eldar, where IG would be difficult to implement that way. It'd take ten guardsmen to kill a space marine, compared to five orks, and guardsmen don't get stronger quite like Orks do

Guardsmen are the real meat that the Imperium throws into the grinder daily IMO.

Sisters are better equipped (power armor for even the lowest rank & file sister instead of a small piece of flak for the chest and an almost helmet.), better armed (bolters instead of angry flashlights). IG sounds like the perfect throwaway soldier for the F2P lambs to the slaughter to use as they can be sacrificed in the tens of thousands and not be terribly expensive to replace. Just have someone pick up the dead guy's flashlight and tshirt and slap in on the next one.

Yes, but how are you going to advance as an IG when you pay a subscription? Orks can advance as Nobs when they pay their subscription, and Nobs can go toe to toe with Space Marines.

Guard have nothing that can do that. Even Ogryns would be hard pressed to go toe to toe with Space Marines, even when ignoring their stupidity (brute strength, but absolutely zero skill)

Yeah, I don't think IG would work very well. All they have that can improve would be better weapons, but when you can have those same weapons on a Marine then what's the point?

And as for the Cain novels, they're written as comedic fiction, so naturally they take some liberties.

IG advancement in my mind:

Cadian Stormtroopers/Kasrkins - access to carapace armor, "hot shot" lasguns (can punch through astartes power armor like paper).
Catachan fighters - access to "steatlhy" stuff like camo cloaks, excellent melee skills IF they get the drop on the enemy, can snipe if need be but primarily places booby traps (explosives/poisons).
Sanctioned psykers - for heretical warp magicks.

Skins for sale: Death Korps of Krieg, Voystroyan, Tallarn,

Possible command types for the "war council"

Commissar - access to power weapons, summary execution skill to get rid of troll players (cannot be used on enemy players/long cooldown)
Lord General - elected position by players access to any piece of kit the player wants assigned to IG

Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.

 Soladrin wrote:
Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.

And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.

And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.

Well, one would assume IG would get lots of buffs for working in squads, or is that just me?

Not to mention, any guardsmen can throw on any piece of gaurdsmen armor once it becomes theirs.

 Soladrin wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.

And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.

Well, one would assume IG would get lots of buffs for working in squads, or is that just me?

It's just you. If the F2P people were put on even ground with the P2W people,then their fragile little e-egos wouldn't get the stroking it needs from lording their imbalances upon you.

Most likely any and all buffs will come from a "buffer" class that exists only to buff squadmates and draw enemy fire.

 Soladrin wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:
Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.

And what does the Sergeant get? What does the Platoon Commander get? A close combat weapon and laspistol instead of a lsagun? A power weapon, even? Doesn't matter. I shoot them once with my bolter, they explode.

Well, one would assume IG would get lots of buffs for working in squads, or is that just me?

Moreso than say, a Space Marine squad (that's received far more training than the average IG guardsman) or the effects of an Ork Waagh! from a 30-boyz mob?

Speaking of classes. I believe it is folly to just incorporate the "classes" from the Codexes.

Realistically speaking, what visible traits distinguish a Sternguard marine from a Tactical marine? According to the codex the Sternguard gets access to different ammo types and the rest is gungho-macho fantasies of glory.

This game needs to shrug off the archaic archetypes of Tank/DPS/Heals in favor of skill and tactics to win wars instead of "Diz 'ere perpel shoota makes bigga numbas den yerz"

AWesker1976 wrote:
Speaking of classes. I believe it is folly to just incorporate the "classes" from the Codexes.

Realistically speaking, what visible traits distinguish a Sternguard marine from a Tactical marine? According to the codex the Sternguard gets access to different ammo types and the rest is gungho-macho fantasies of glory.

So just the ammo types, since the entire space marine faction is a gung-ho-macho fantasy of glory.

Soladrin wrote:Well, if they use a branching system for advancement you could get anything from Sargeants to tank commanders in there too. It really depends on how the rest of the game functions.

That's what I'm thinking, too. There are options ranging from NPC squadmates all the way to "advanced IG = vehicles only" - but how well (or if at all) this can be implemented, is anyone's guess.
Of course it could be just as possible to have IG lasgun cannonfodder as F2P without any actual advancement -> pay up and you get to play Marines or Sisters. But I think this would miss out on some great potential for the faction.

That being said, Storm Troopers or Kasrkin are nothing to sneeze at. True, still no power armour, but they could have other bonuses in line with the Guard's more military than knightly (compared to SM) tactics. Even your average IG trooper can get very dangerous once you put him behind a lascannon or heavy bolter - the trick is to use them in conjunction with stuff like smoke walls, trench fighting, and aerial support. If Eternal Crusade features cover mechanics, I could think that IG soldiers get some sort of proficiency bonus here...

Also, I think a lot of people are underestimating the lasgun a bit due to its commonly poor portrayal in Space Marine bolter porn. On the tabletop, your IG trooper has a 1/18 chance to take out a Marine, which by abstraction already includes details such as the trooper's accuracy, the target dodging, being in cover, armour and health. It gets more obvious in the Inquisitor RPG, where characters actually would have hit points (like in the MMO?) and an attack is not an "all or nothing" matter. There, a lasgun has a 1/6 chance of punching through power armour and wounding the wearer (which, on a sidenote, also happens to coincide with the fluff description of powered armour protection in Codex: Angels of Death).
Mix up blobs of F2P infantry with plasmagun-armed "upgraded" IG players, airdropping Storm Troopers, heavy weapon "teams" (would be just 1 player I think?), and tanks, and you've got yourself a veritable threat for any enemy.

The only thing I can think of is restricting armors/weapons from certain players, which I don't want to do.

Everyone can't be allowed to wear Terminator armor into battle for example. How do developers stay true to the fluff without creating an atmosphere of haves and have-nots?

It's an MMO. Some degree of fluff will have to be sacrificed along the way. I think it's already safe to say we will end up with a Dark Angels "Chapter" that will be larger than the Legions of the Horus Heresy, and I don't think they will operate in squads either.

That being said, I think Terminator armour will be very situational and thus not very attractive to all kinds of players.
For a Leman Russ battle tank, a Space Marine Terminator is just an easy, slow-moving target.

 Lynata wrote:
It's an MMO. Some degree of fluff will have to be sacrificed along the way. I think it's already safe to say we will end up with a Dark Angels "Chapter" that will be larger than the Legions of the Horus Heresy, and I don't think they will operate in squads either.

That being said, I think Terminator armour will be very situational and thus not very attractive to all kinds of players.
For a Leman Russ battle tank, a Space Marine Terminator is just an easy, slow-moving target.

Don't forget: when a Space Marine gets promoted to a Sergeant, he loses the ability to put a helmet on his head. 1 well aimed shot from a lasgun and we need a new sarge.

One thing I do like in FFG's Deathwatch game: you get a reputation bonus if you don't put on your helmet for the mission. "Eternal Crusade" should totally have this as a feature for Space Marines and (once added) Sisters.

I agree with many of the previous statements about Elite infantry.

I still believe that it's possible to have whatever planet we're fighting over to be a major recruiting station for both the SM's and SoB. People can progress equally and horizontally quite easily as an IG (collecting weapons and the like), and then advance to the next feature by joining one of the Order's depending on their gender. Everyone would be forced to start as an IG, Orkboy, Gaurdian, or Traitor until they reached level 20 out of 41 (for example), then have the option of being able to become Heavy Infantry. Player's wouldn't have to start over, but rather have an option to accept their new role and continue a horizontal expansion of gaining Heavy Infantry weapons (Plasma Cannon's, Lascannons, Heavy Bolters, Jump Infantry Gear) and perks (Impenetrable, Master Crafted, Rage, ect.), and though they'd all be considerably more powerful than the regular infantry, I'd see no reason how it would be difficult to implement "Veteran" status for those who chose not to become Heavy Infantry. Instead of becoming a MEQ, players could be given the option of becoming Storm Troopers, Grenadiers, Commando's, Komandos, or other "Elite's" fully capable of taking out a MEQ on their own with Hot-shot Lasgun's, Sniper Rifles, Defensive Mines, Demolition Charges, Flakk Jackets stuffed with explosives. Even if they remained fragile to even the newest of players and incapable of preforming the same roles as Heavy Infantry, an overwhelming majority of players would prefer this degree of freedom over being locked down and shut out of their favorite characters.

 Lynata wrote:
purely from a visual PoV I'd even say they make for a more varied, unique appearance than Necrons once you put them next to CSM.

Please dont make fun of Zalamut being respectfull to the Emperor!!! LOL

Zalamut, I do not take ANYTHING offensive... well except when I play MMO or when I pratice MMA ;-)

Dear Fans, I apologise, I am not yet familiar with all the forum tools (like how you just add your comments below someone else).

I cant has well answer all questions on ALL forums that the team and I are trying to follow like mmorpg.com (go check this new article on history of 40k Games).

Regarding Star Citizen. Go check here: http://robertsspaceindustries.com/stanton-landing-storyboards/

We are making all of the Planets, Space station and Outpost for StarCitizen.

I am working very hard for a new reveal this week but it might have to go for next since we have a very very Long weekend in Canada this weekend.... Canada day. :-)

I will keep in touch but dont blast me too much while I am away resting (actually moving houses!! :-( )

Until then:

It is better to die for the Emperor than to live for yourself

Miguel

Miguel: Click the "QUOTE" button.

Yup, Click this button right up here =======================================================>^^^^^^^^^^^

Then type below the quoted section. Try not to mess with the text inside it.

To quote multiple people at a time, click this button right up here for each person you want to add ================>^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote me, and let me know how the IG and SoB will be implemented

Also, you said previously EC will have dynamic weather, will it have a Day/Night cycle as well, and will that affect infiltration and combat?

 zmalamuth wrote:
you didnt read much novels about "Ciaphas Cain"? entire chapter fell under influence of "Voice of Chaos"(dont have book nearby to check the name) , then fought necrons, and in the end went insane.

Though I agree with what Lynata said about Sandy Mitchell being a pretty bad source of Sororitas fluff, I'd like to point out that an extremely powerful psyker was controlling them with his abilities, not chaos itself. And one small thing that can be said to Mitchell's credit is that he does at least make a big deal out of Sisters being controlled.

Anyway, though it's a helluva long way off, still looking forward to the prospect of Sisters being in this. Last time we saw them in a vidya was Soulstorm.

bottom line gentlemen, sisters of battle are attractive

Therefore it would make sense to put them in the MMO

 Troike wrote:
Anyway, though it's a helluva long way off, still looking forward to the prospect of Sisters being in this

Indeed.

Assuming they actually do it and aren't just giving cheap talk they don't intend to back up with action, like most devs.

 Melissia wrote:
Yes, but how are you going to advance as an IG when you pay a subscription? Orks can advance as Nobs when they pay their subscription, and Nobs can go toe to toe with Space Marines.

Guard have nothing that can do that. Even Ogryns would be hard pressed to go toe to toe with Space Marines, even when ignoring their stupidity (brute strength, but absolutely zero skill)

I can see various specialities ranging from stealthy sapper types to dangerous psykers, even assassins would be doable. Mit's not exactly how it works in the fluff, but it's a good compromise for people who want to fight for the imperium but don't want to be a marine or sister.

 Ifepy wrote:
bottom line gentlemen, sisters of battle are attractive

If they allow you to customize your character and not look as butt-ugly as the 40k models, then yes, they might be

If players are willing to accept a progression route where a Guardsman can become a Storm Trooper, or a Tech Priest, or an Ogryn, or an Assassin, or a Sanctioned Psyker or a Rogue Trader instead of simply working up the command chain then it is less of an issue.

Does this mess with role-playing and immersion? Yes. But so does being repeatedly killed and respawned.