Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis

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**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Eihnlazer wrote:
Thairne wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Unless you jump a +1 attack flag with the PP and an axe in, and then it's 6 attacks with the axe, and +1 attack to every model in the charged unit.

Except that the Allarus Vexila Praetor does not have a melee weapon aside of a misericordia. In which case you get 4, not 6 attacks at a whopping S5 AP-2 D1.

I am unimpressed.

Well you actually either get 5 spear/axe attacks or 6 daggers with a vexilla. 4 base, +1 for banner, +1 for dagger.

But no, the vexilla is not doing damage himself. He's buffing whatever unit he pops up by significantly though.

Lets assume you had a unit of vertus praetors that got charged and you PP in. You pop up on the backside of the charging unit at .9" away from the charging unit.

Now your opponent cannot pile in all his models into the bikes and can likely only get 2-4 models into the vexilla (unlikely to kill it).

He swings as much as he can into the bikes and kills 1 of them.

Now your bikes can go, with the +1 attack from the banner and +1 attack per model from Avenge the fallen. Your 3 man bike unit that lost a model is now only down one dagger attack from when they were a full 3 man unit, then the praetor gets to swing. You've actually gotten far more damage into the charging unit than they were planning for.

PP is very strong, which is why its only once per game.

I think the nerf to make it a heroic intervention is absolutly fine and in line with what it should be. Keeps you honest and make you actually think about using it. Your not gonna just pop up and take a point away from the swarmlord for instance.

I think the following changes need to happen to custodes.

Bring trajann to 165, and make it so that if you take him you cannot use Victor of the Blood games on any other character (since he has it).
Bring salvo to +10pts a model instead of +5.
Make it so that you can only take one unit of wardens and they use no slot (you get them as a unit to protect your WL).
Give agamatus bikes +1w and reduce points cost by 5pts.
Give aquillon termies +1w.
Bring Orion down 20 more points.
Make ares main gun go to one shot 12 damage ignore invuns or have D3+1 shots in beam mode.
Bring all Lastrum bolt cannons to D2 like they are supposed to be.

Bring Emperor's Auspice to 2cp.
Add the grav impuslor strat for our tanks (-2 to be charged).
Make Esteemed Amalgam so that you can only select each other shield host once.

I think all of this is fair and honestly a step in the right direction.. My only question is the Ares Gun change. I'd rather we NOT be part of the emerging problem with this game. Also, units that never see play won't see play just because of that buff. Ala our Tank units.

Orion should cost more than a LR, considering it's got flyer, Supersonic, and an Invuln. All things that make it immesurably better than a LR.

I also think even at 165 Trajann is criminal. He needs to be 180 or nerfed other way. He's currently leading the league in RBIs and HRs, he should cost slightly less than 200, imho. I think 180 would still be auto-take. I mean, be honest, we don't have to pay for daggers anymore, or thee full squads of guardians, and all our units costs went down, we can afford it.

**The Red Hobbit**

If they made Lastrum Bolters D2 I think you'd be hard pressed to ever purchase the Adrathic Destructors on the Achillus Dread, unless you had nothing else to spend your points on.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Not for nothing, but I'd really rather they gave the multi-melta D6+3 damage, and the Ares AC d2.

I just want to play with the toy I bought back in 2020, please.

**Eihnlazer**

The Red Hobbit wrote:
If they made Lastrum Bolters D2 I think you'd be hard pressed to ever purchase the Adrathic Destructors on the Achillus Dread, unless you had nothing else to spend your points on.

Just the bolt cannons, not the bolters on the aquillons. The only models that use the bolt cannons are the caladius, the orion, and the agamatus bikes.

**The Red Hobbit**

Ah, okay I see what you mean. I think most of the items on your list are reasonable and I definitely think we'll see a points hike on Trajann and the Salvo launchers. I'm curious why you think Emperor's Auspice needs to go to flat 2CP though.

**Eihnlazer**

Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

**Tiberias**

Eihnlazer wrote:
Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

I could probably live with emperors auspice being 2cp though it's a hard sell...you do realize that most of our survivability is now tied to those two strats (alchemy and auspice). T5, 4++ doesn't cut it anymore nowadays, it's nothing special.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I am not able to comprehend the justification for making Trajann Valoris, arguably the most capable non-primarch humanoid fighter in the galaxy, cost slightly more than Sir Walken. 160 points for the best beatstick in the game that isn't a LOW? His damage output alone is worth 160. With his stat line, his invuln, his FNP, and his super special relic, he's at least 180-200.

Abbadon - 220
Drazhar - 145
Thrakka - 300
Beastboss on Squigosaur - 175
Voldus - 150
Draigo - 180
Irillyth - 140
Asurmen - 160
Farsight - 130
Shadowsun - 150

You really think Trajann deserves to cost the same as Asurmen, but less than Draigo?

He needs to be at least as much as a generic GK Character, and he's not as cheese as a GMDK, but I'd put him around the same as Draigo. His natural abilities are a match for Draigo's psyker stuff.

**Audustum**

Tiberias wrote:
Eihnlazer wrote:
Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

I could probably live with emperors auspice being 2cp though it's a hard sell...you do realize that most of our survivability is now tied to those two strats (alchemy and auspice). T5, 4++ doesn't cut it anymore nowadays, it's nothing special.

Yeah I'm in agreement with this. 2CP Auspice risks ruining the entire army it's so bad.

Start with point nerfs then breathe and see what happens from there.

**The Red Hobbit**

Eihnlazer wrote:
Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

Yeah I see what you mean, it is a unique ability for our faction (well, until other 9e codexes start turning off rerolls). Personally, I think 8th and 9th suffers from having too many rerolls, I remember the first time I played against Gulliman in 8th, there was an unbelievable amount of rolling going on the other side of the table

, so a 1-2CP ability that turns them off seems reasonable to me, especially for a ultra-elite small number of models army.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

2CP for Auspice "Ruins the entire army"? Really? How? We have more CP than ever before, we gain more each turn, and we have a character that gives us free CP just by existing. How is 2CP to shut down an entire game mechanic capable of ruining our army? You do realize our claim to fame post codex has been our ability to kill anything with ease, not our ability to survive anything. Does any other faction in the game have the ability to do this? All I can think of is Sister's who can force dice on a roll?

**Tiberias**

The Red Hobbit wrote:
Eihnlazer wrote:
Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

Yeah I see what you mean, it is a unique ability for our faction (well, until other 9e codexes start turning off rerolls). Personally, I think 8th and 9th suffers from having too many rerolls, I remember the first time I played against Gulliman in 8th, there was an unbelievable amount of rolling going on the other side of the table , so a 1-2CP ability that turns them off seems reasonable to me, especially for a ultra-elite small number of models army.

And it's ONE unit. Seriously I'm so fed up with the reddit mob especially screeching that you can't do anything against Custodes because you can't use re-rolls against them. It's one unit, and a good player can bait out the strat and then blast something else if necessary. Sure, it's a very powerful ability, but I am sick of these black and white assessments of "you can't ever re-roll against them"....such bs.

**Audustum**

Tiberias wrote:
The Red Hobbit wrote:
Eihnlazer wrote:
Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

Yeah I see what you mean, it is a unique ability for our faction (well, until other 9e codexes start turning off rerolls). Personally, I think 8th and 9th suffers from having too many rerolls, I remember the first time I played against Gulliman in 8th, there was an unbelievable amount of rolling going on the other side of the table , so a 1-2CP ability that turns them off seems reasonable to me, especially for a ultra-elite small number of models army.

And it's ONE unit. Seriously I'm so fed up with the reddit mob especially screeching that you can't do anything against Custodes because you can't use re-rolls against them. It's one unit, and a good player can bait out the strat and then blast something else if necessary. Sure, it's a very powerful ability, but I am sick of these black and white assessments of "you can't ever re-roll against them"....such bs.

In addition, we lean on this crutch a lot. You're only gonna have 2 turns of this at 2CP. That's not enough.

**The Red Hobbit**

Tiberias wrote:

And it's ONE unit. Seriously I'm so fed up with the reddit mob especially screeching that you can't do anything against Custodes because you can't use re-rolls against them. It's one unit, and a good player can bait out the strat and then blast something else if necessary. Sure, it's a very powerful ability, but I am sick of these black and white assessments of "you can't ever re-roll against them"....such bs.

Completely agree, even though our Transhuman and turn off reroll strats are only 1 CP, its only one unit for one phase. It's easy to overcome if you're willing to be patient with your resources. Honestly I'm surprised by how much flak the Custodes codex has gotten by the angry internet mob. Our units haven't changed much since the 8e codex, we've lost the 3++, but gained Karate and cheaper stratagems. I'd wager most of the people complaining never faced Custodes in 8e, and instead are irate when they see consistent win rates at tournaments which is an entirely different level of play altogether.

**Audustum**

The Red Hobbit wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

And it's ONE unit. Seriously I'm so fed up with the reddit mob especially screeching that you can't do anything against Custodes because you can't use re-rolls against them. It's one unit, and a good player can bait out the strat and then blast something else if necessary. Sure, it's a very powerful ability, but I am sick of these black and white assessments of "you can't ever re-roll against them"....such bs.

Completely agree, even though our Transhuman and turn off reroll strats are only 1 CP, its only one unit for one phase. It's easy to overcome if you're willing to be patient with your resources. Honestly I'm surprised by how much flak the Custodes codex has gotten by the angry internet mob. Our units haven't changed much since the 8e codex, we've lost the 3++, but gained Karate and cheaper stratagems. I'd wager most of the people complaining never faced Custodes in 8e, and instead are irate when they see consistent win rates at tournaments which is an entirely different level of play altogether.

We're also all that's holding Tau in check. Their win rate might explode even further if we get taken out too hard and/or they aren't addressed enough

**The Red Hobbit**

I haven't had a chance to play 9e Tau yet but I'm looking forward to it. I think there's only one Tau player in my current FLGS, my last one had several.

**WisdomLS**

EA is very good, no one is denying that and at 2CP it will still be pretty good. Personally I like the change to make it always 2CP on bikes but still 1CP on 3 man infantry.

I've had 6 games with the new book and its very powerful, more so than it seems on first read but if you believed everything being said about us you would think that transhuman (a very common ability in other armies) and no rerolls were in constant effect on all our units.
I've played against other custodes and I just split fire until they pop their strats and then concentrate other fire where they don't - it makes target priority and shot positioning harder but isn't that difficult to work around.

I'm hoping they start with points on Trajan and bikes + salvo and go from there - its a fine line, something needs to be done but we are such an elite force that it would be easy to over correct.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

The big problem is all of 9th has focused on melee armies. No one has really dealt with or was prepared for an ALL shooting army. Tau are dominating the Meta now because the Meta was built around defeating melee threats. I'd say give it another two months, and I bet Guard will be the new Super Power. They already have a character that has literal infinite shooting with grenades...

**stratigo**

fething the strats is a great way to put the codex to the bottom of the pile. But also I am seeing folks suggest changes that just mean you want to run a big squad and win with that instead have having to think too hard with all of 3 smaller squads what to use strats on and it is silly

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eihnlazer wrote:
Transhuman is on alot of armies and ours is appropriately priced, but EA is pretty uncommon. It completely invalidates alot of other armies power into us. It should just always be 2CP.

We can also get no-rerolls to hit in combat for free with kaptaris so I dont feel increasing it is too harsh.

You make it 2 cp, and custodes armies simply consolidate units. It makes the army MORE brainless. The cp split is to stop things like this.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The big problem is all of 9th has focused on melee armies. No one has really dealt with or was prepared for an ALL shooting army. Tau are dominating the Meta now because the Meta was built around defeating melee threats. I'd say give it another two months, and I bet Guard will be the new Super Power. They already have a character that has literal infinite shooting with grenades...

Tau dominate the meta because they are near impossible to punish. They have by far the most indirect firepower in the game, several JSJ and fallback and shoot tricks, easy ways to reduce charges against them, and they still get to abuse drones.

Except for other tau, there isn't an army out there that really does meaningful damage to a meta tau army. Even custodes mostly make it by grace of emperor's auspice and standing in the center being too scary to contest and dying slow enough to score more.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I will say the new Harly Jetbikes should take the heat off our jetbikes being OP for a month or two, if their rules stick. 90pts for a Heavy 2 S12 AP4 gun that does 3d3 damage, or 2d3 S5 AP3 D1 Blast, or it's Haywire Guns of 2d3 S4 AP3 3 damage shooting that wounds all vehicles on 4s, and does d3 MWs on 6s. And double D2 Shuriken cannons. Also has JSJ, a -1 to hit, and permanent Can't reroll to-hit rolls.

Anyone else ready for 10th?

Actually, if they are making that the new thing it would be a hilarious way for them to kill re-rolls.

**Grimskul**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say the new Harly Jetbikes should take the heat off our jetbikes being OP for a month or two, if their rules stick. 90pts for a Heavy 2 S12 AP4 gun that does 3d3 damage, or 2d3 S5 AP3 D1 Blast, or it's Haywire Guns of 2d3 S4 AP3 3 damage shooting that wounds all vehicles on 4s, and does d3 MWs on 6s. And double D2 Shuriken cannons. Also has JSJ, a -1 to hit, and permanent Can't reroll to-hit rolls.

Anyone else ready for 10th?

Actually, if they are making that the new thing it would be a hilarious way for them to kill re-rolls.

I think you mean their transports from what you're describing? Only the Voidweaver can use the Prismatic Cannon, the Skyweavers can only bring the Haywire Cannon.

**stratigo**

Again, custodes have a pretty simple set of power models and can reigned it by increasing their points. Missile bikes and Trajan. That’s the competitive core

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Grimskul wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say the new Harly Jetbikes should take the heat off our jetbikes being OP for a month or two, if their rules stick. 90pts for a Heavy 2 S12 AP4 gun that does 3d3 damage, or 2d3 S5 AP3 D1 Blast, or it's Haywire Guns of 2d3 S4 AP3 3 damage shooting that wounds all vehicles on 4s, and does d3 MWs on 6s. And double D2 Shuriken cannons. Also has JSJ, a -1 to hit, and permanent Can't reroll to-hit rolls.

Anyone else ready for 10th?

Actually, if they are making that the new thing it would be a hilarious way for them to kill re-rolls.

I think you mean their transports from what you're describing? Only the Voidweaver can use the Prismatic Cannon, the Skyweavers can only bring the Haywire Cannon.

I am talking about this one, which he clearly stated was a Jetbike. If it's not, my bad, I don't know Harlequins, I was trusting that he did.

**Grimskul**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say the new Harly Jetbikes should take the heat off our jetbikes being OP for a month or two, if their rules stick. 90pts for a Heavy 2 S12 AP4 gun that does 3d3 damage, or 2d3 S5 AP3 D1 Blast, or it's Haywire Guns of 2d3 S4 AP3 3 damage shooting that wounds all vehicles on 4s, and does d3 MWs on 6s. And double D2 Shuriken cannons. Also has JSJ, a -1 to hit, and permanent Can't reroll to-hit rolls.

Anyone else ready for 10th?

Actually, if they are making that the new thing it would be a hilarious way for them to kill re-rolls.

I think you mean their transports from what you're describing? Only the Voidweaver can use the Prismatic Cannon, the Skyweavers can only bring the Haywire Cannon.

I am talking about this one, which he clearly stated was a Jetbike. If it's not, my bad, I don't know Harlequins, I was trusting that he did.

Yeah, Auspex Tactics can sometimes feth up his wording with the amount of videos he pumps out everyday, it's a vehicle, not a jetbike, even though he states it is on the video. No big deal though, they're very strong either way.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Grimskul wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say the new Harly Jetbikes should take the heat off our jetbikes being OP for a month or two, if their rules stick. 90pts for a Heavy 2 S12 AP4 gun that does 3d3 damage, or 2d3 S5 AP3 D1 Blast, or it's Haywire Guns of 2d3 S4 AP3 3 damage shooting that wounds all vehicles on 4s, and does d3 MWs on 6s. And double D2 Shuriken cannons. Also has JSJ, a -1 to hit, and permanent Can't reroll to-hit rolls.

Anyone else ready for 10th?

Actually, if they are making that the new thing it would be a hilarious way for them to kill re-rolls.

I think you mean their transports from what you're describing? Only the Voidweaver can use the Prismatic Cannon, the Skyweavers can only bring the Haywire Cannon.

I am talking about this one, which he clearly stated was a Jetbike. If it's not, my bad, I don't know Harlequins, I was trusting that he did.

Yeah, Auspex Tactics can sometimes feth up his wording with the amount of videos he pumps out everyday, it's a vehicle, not a jetbike, even though he states it is on the video. No big deal though, they're very strong either way.

Thank you for the correction. Still, I'm glad the two incomming Dexs are completely gonzo, it takes some of the heat off us. Now if we could just get Competitive players to stop maining Custodes for every single event, that would be great.

**Grimskul**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will say the new Harly Jetbikes should take the heat off our jetbikes being OP for a month or two, if their rules stick. 90pts for a Heavy 2 S12 AP4 gun that does 3d3 damage, or 2d3 S5 AP3 D1 Blast, or it's Haywire Guns of 2d3 S4 AP3 3 damage shooting that wounds all vehicles on 4s, and does d3 MWs on 6s. And double D2 Shuriken cannons. Also has JSJ, a -1 to hit, and permanent Can't reroll to-hit rolls.

Anyone else ready for 10th?

Actually, if they are making that the new thing it would be a hilarious way for them to kill re-rolls.

I think you mean their transports from what you're describing? Only the Voidweaver can use the Prismatic Cannon, the Skyweavers can only bring the Haywire Cannon.

I am talking about this one, which he clearly stated was a Jetbike. If it's not, my bad, I don't know Harlequins, I was trusting that he did.

Yeah, Auspex Tactics can sometimes feth up his wording with the amount of videos he pumps out everyday, it's a vehicle, not a jetbike, even though he states it is on the video. No big deal though, they're very strong either way.

Thank you for the correction. Still, I'm glad the two incomming Dexs are completely gonzo, it takes some of the heat off us. Now if we could just get Competitive players to stop maining Custodes for every single event, that would be great.

As an Ork player, I know exactly how you feel given how quick and kneejerky the GW restrictions were when you make a splash on the tourney scene, people start REEEEing immediately, and Custodes with such a small range are much more suspectible to major changes. Unfortunately, Custodes are very tournament friendly precisely because of their small model count so I doubt people will abandon them any time soon.

**stratigo**

Custodes are very vulnerable to nerfs because their range is small and their competitive range is... smaller.

that's why all the excessive "Oh not only nerf points but also make emperor's chosen trash and make all their strats cost triple" stuff is.... well... a lot.

**EightFoldPath**

The CP cost of the strategems are really poorly designed. 2 CP to EA for a unit of 5 Custodian Guard (215 points). 1 CP to EA for a unit of 4 Bikes (340 ponts) or a Telemon (260 points). Why not base the cost on PL like they used to?

**Tiberias**

So Harlequins at least seem to be a very strong army now. They have lots of shenanigans and can be harder to shift than their T3 bodies make them out to be...always - 1 to be hit in melee, often times - 1 to be wounded, no re-rolls allowed against a lot of stuff...the whole shebang of annoyance.
My point being that Emissaries Imperatus might be a rather good pick against them. Ignoring modifiers to hit and wound is actually really nice into the Murderclowns and always fight first is also super annoying to fight against.

**The Red Hobbit**

Harlequins were tough in 8th so I'm not surprised they will be a strong contender in 9th.

Question for Auric weapons. Do relic weapons like veiled blade, gatekeeper, etc. count as Auric weapons? I ask because they took the time to specify Gnosis and Watcher's Ax but didn't list any of the relics. I would think the intention is that a relic which counts as a Sentinel Blade or Guardian Spear would be auric weapons.