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As the titles says, I am trying to do a bike force. I have always loved the idea of bike / calvary running around the field as a fast strike force. In 8th bikes seem to be designed for shooting now though, not close combat. So with this in mind I am not sure what chapter I should go with to make this force work. I have considered ravenwing and white scars for obvious reasons but haven't found much info on how to run a successful force based on these chapter traits. 4++ when boosting is nice but then you can't shoot. Falling back and being able to charge again is nice but bikers don't seem to want to be involved in cc if they can avoid it.

I am thinking bikers kitted out for anti infantry since that's a bikers thing, and a fire base of predators / whirlwinds / land speeders maybe for anti vehicle.

Is there a different chapter I should be looking at that would be better for the bikers? Bikers don't seem to get much use in bat reps that I have seen online lately. :(

Ultramarines are good. You can shoot, charge, fall back and shoot again. Not bad.

Ravenwing are always a good choice. I've been pretty satisfied with their bikes.

Bike options in the main Codex are limited and overpriced; but if you want to try for it one big thing to remember is that Chapter Veterans on Bikes from the Index are still allowed, even though they forgot to put them in the Codex. White Scars are the iconic Legion, but their Chapter Tactics/Stratagem are geared towards melee, and the units really don't exist to work with it. Salamanders might be a good option, if you're running around with three-man biker units with two special weapons the rerolls give you a lot more positional flexibility rather than needing to keep a death-ball around a central Captain.

I'd say look into Ravenwing, but I don't have the Codex in front of me so I don't know how good of an idea that actually is. You do get newer models, a better-supported melee-veteran unit, and the flag, though.

 daedalus wrote:
Ravenwing are always a good choice. I've been pretty satisfied with their bikes.

This would be true only if you were to base your army around 15~20 RBK's. DA chapter tactics are pretty poor for bike based army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'd say look into Ravenwing, but I don't have the Codex in front of me so I don't know how good of an idea that actually is. You do get newer models, a better-supported melee-veteran unit, and the flag, though.

The ravenwing ancient looks lot better on paper than it performs. The +1A only goes so far when considering you're only multiplying S5 attacks on the RBK's. It works better for RBK MSU's to take advantage of 3A base on the huntmaster, which would then hurt you in terms of stratagems. Otherwise, it's much better to take a champion.

I don't know if they'd make a good overall army, but scout bikes running as Imperial Fists is an interesting idea. You spit out a *lot* of dice within 12" (since they have shotguns, and twin boltguns), as well as ignoring cover - against units like Dark Reapers, etc, that could be really punishing.

I would either make melee bikes or shooting bikes, but don't try to do both. Although i haven't looked at the DA codex yet in any detail.

The best Space Marine bikes are Dark Angels one.

You don't need to make them all Black Knights. Normal Ravenwing Bikes have jink, invulnerable of 4++ after advancing. Thats better than any Chapter Tactic they can get from the normal codex. And you gain access to all the DA special biker/ravenwing units like Deathsrouds, Black Knights, etc...

Normal Space Marine Codex bikers can't compete with Dark Angels ones. Plus, all your special biker characters (Champion, Ancient, Aphotecary) are already in the Codex. And you have Sammael for your HQ.

Thanks for the input guys. I have 10 bikers already sitting here waiting for me to paint / put together so at least that many will be in the army. I had forgotten all about the company vets on bikes (thanks gw for trying to keep indexes useful in some form by just not putting stuff in the codex) I will have to pull my index put and look at them.

Yeah I'm sad that ravenwing stratagem is really situational but I suppose it is still useful if your using it to protect yourself and get from point a to point b as quick as possible.

The main issue with bike army right now is that many of the good stratagems exclude the keyword BIKER within their eligibility.
The only thing that RW's got going right now is the Speed of Raven + Weapons from Dark Age combo on 10-man RBK buffed with Talonmaster+Sammael+Dark Shroud - for 969 points.
(ignore advance penalty, +1D on plas, re-roll 1's to wound, re-roll all failed to-hit, ++4 jink, -1 to hit)

 skchsan wrote:
The main issue with bike army right now is that many of the good stratagems exclude the keyword BIKER within their eligibility.
The only thing that RW's got going right now is the Speed of Raven + Weapons from Dark Age combo on 10-man RBK buffed with Talonmaster+Sammael+Dark Shroud - for 969 points.
(ignore advance penalty, +1D on plas, re-roll 1's to wound, re-roll all failed to-hit, ++4 jink, -1 to hit)

Thats let you with 1021 points to have more bikes, talonmasters, etc... to do other things in the battlefield.

 Galas wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
The main issue with bike army right now is that many of the good stratagems exclude the keyword BIKER within their eligibility.
The only thing that RW's got going right now is the Speed of Raven + Weapons from Dark Age combo on 10-man RBK buffed with Talonmaster+Sammael+Dark Shroud - for 969 points.
(ignore advance penalty, +1D on plas, re-roll 1's to wound, re-roll all failed to-hit, ++4 jink, -1 to hit)

Thats let you with 1021 points to have more bikes, talonmasters, etc... to do other things in the battlefield.

Yes, I was merely providing an example of what Ravenwing as a bike-centric army has over other bike armies for the purpose of bike themed army per OP.
As for other things you can buy with the leftover 1k points - only way you can make jink work with regular bikers is to equip them with flamers or meltaguns, and flamers are better on salamanders and meltagun can rack up points really quick. LS has point cost issues across astartes. LSV overheat is terrible. Got some nifty flyers though, although I'm not sure how far the OP is willing to go in terms of defining his bike army.

I am looking for 50/50 is split, with half of that being bikes or charecters on bikes. The other 50% could be heavy Support, base troops, heck I am ok with imperial guard / inquisition force. I am trying to come up with a fun, fluffy army that my nephews can learn against while I can use stuff I don't normally use / do a force that can have some valid reason for existing.

I know bikers are not in a good stating position, being seen as an OK but not valuable in a competitive force in numbers light, so I am already starting behind the 8 ball, but if I can come up wish something I will be happy.

Anyone going to suggest custodes?

First reaction : Eugh. Not a fan of anything custodies related.
Second reaction : though 3 squads of 5 marine bikers running up the table with a squad of custodies bikers leading the charge sounds quite awesome....

Hmmmmmm. Damn. That's a thought all right. Lol.

Couldn't resist mentioning it. They're pretty good in the game right now, plus they have beautiful models. I'm definitely going to be painting some in the colours of my Blood Eagles chapter...

You could try Sammael; a Talonmaster; a 5 man RW Bike Squad with 2 x Plasmaguns with an Attack Bike and Multi-Melta; and a 5 man RW Black Knight Squad. Add in three Scout Squads or Intercessor/Tactical Squads and you have a thematic Battalion with at least 6 CPs and the ability to hold objectives in your own area. This also leaves plenty of points for some shooty stuff. Having said that, the 10 man RW Black Knight squad mentioned by a poster above has a certain appeal!

A 5 man RW Biker squad using Speed of the Raven with Sammael and the Talonmaster along can move/advance 20" and put out some serious dakka. Buffed by Sammael they have been a surprisingly effective part of my post-Codex army. The Black Knights Advance beside them, not supercharging their Plasma Talons. Sammael has his 4++, both the RW and RWBK squads have 4++ from Jink and the Talonmaster relies on being a character for survivability. You need to set it all up somewhat carefully to make sure that you stay in buff range as you advance ahead, but it can deal out some serious damage while being a characterful biker list. Remeber that only one unit can use the Speed of the Raven stratagem each turn. If there is a tank or other big nasty that you really need to kill then the Black Knights use the Speed of the Raven stratagem, supercharge with WFTDA and the normal Bikers try to do something else (like get behind some cover or draw fire) since they could not then Jink and shoot.

I've tried all RW and it suffers in missions with multiple objectives. I've run the full slate of supporting RW Elites such as Champion, Ancient and Apothecary. They add to the theme and give it some bite in close combat but they hurt with drop count and close combat is not really where the RW want to be. My Apothecary with a Stasis launcher, though, is a decent force multiplier. Bringing back wounds/casualties on expensive models is great and the Statis Shell stratagem can be a nasty surprise.

Good hunting!

I have found that mixing chapters across detachments works best. For instance white scar scout bikes/bikers/vet bikes with their born in the saddle stratagem work well with ravenwing elements using speed of the raven. You will need scouts IME as a screen and to create space.

I was looking at the talon master, I do have two land speeders with dual assault / dual heavy bolters on them (bought some used and that's how they came, wasn't sure why).

Plasma talons look crazy good thanks to how good plasma is.

I think I will be looking at ravenwing and some green wing for support.

Thematically I'd argue for the White Scars as they have always been a legion/chapter which focuses on fast attack orientated tactics. The tactic for them within the SM Codex further assists this too.

In addition to this there are a couple of models on the GW site for them and an upgrade pack specifically for putting together White Scars bike squads.

Do you have any tabletop experience with the white scars? I was under the impression that bikes don't want to be in close combat, and the white scars chapter traits don't really help in that aspect other than retreat and still charge. If it was retreat and shoot I could see it.

I played a WS Grav/plasma spam bike list in 7th.

But due to the change in grav, WS chapter tactics, and bikes in general, I've switched CT for Salamanders.

Being pure bike and flyer, I have very limited Command Points so anything giving me free rerolls is helpful.

Heh I hear that. My main force is salamanders, I was ecstatic when their chapter tactic came out so good.

Azuza001 wrote:
Do you have any tabletop experience with the white scars? I was under the impression that bikes don't want to be in close combat, and the white scars chapter traits don't really help in that aspect other than retreat and still charge. If it was retreat and shoot I could see it.

I'm afraid not, I intend to add some bikes in the future to my Iron Warriors but I don't presently have any. Stat's wise there are probably better melee options but the chapter tactic for the White Scars isn't limited purely to their bikes. As I said, my suggestion was based from a lore perspective. Regarding viability, I'm really not sure. I know two people with bikes in their forces, once is a White Scars player and the other is a Crimson Fists player but it's impossible for me to draw comparisons due to the stark contrast in their army compositions.

Apologies that I can't be of more help on this one.

It's fine, I was hoping a ws player could lend some insite but I have yet to actually come across such a person. :(

I'd go with White Scars or Blood Angels using Scout Bikers heavily. As mentioned Scouts get a LOT of shots within 12", and also come with an extra attack in melee with their knives and pistols. Also the Strat where they can inflict 1D3 Mortal Wounds when falling back is nice. White Scars can Fall Back and still assault, and get +1S with Khan around. Blood Angles with a Sang Priest on a Bike also get +1 to wound and +1S with the Priest around. Very fast, tough, shooty, and decent in CC, what more could you ask for?

If you already have 2 Land Speeders with twin assault cannons and heavy bolters your choice is easy. Take one as Sammael in Sableclaw and the other as a Talonmaster with a Heavenfall Blade. They put out amazing firepower, are hard to target, buff each other and any Ravenwing squads nearby, and can both fight pretty well in melee. Once you get the hang of screening them, they are excellent TAC units. You've got speed, durability, as much anti infantry dakka as 4 Razorbacks, and 2 guys who fight harder than Marine captains with Relic blades.

Welcome to the Dark Angels.