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G'day all,

So I was playing 2k SoB (Me) vs 2k Necrons (him), pick-up game.

We start placing minis. I explain that I have the old Celestien model (rest of army is WYSIWYG). But my Celestien is same base size as the new one and I will make her be able to be targeted ignoring LoS but with character rules etc, (I have the new model but is a pain in the ass to transport). He says: "You really should have the new model to be fair".

So I win roll and start my turn with my Act of faiths. I have 3x Imagifiers in this army (I try to re-roll a failed activation on one with a command point, he says cant do that because before first turn, so I go "ok mate I wont use any re-rolls then on AoF" (pretty sure I can cause at start of turn not before turn but I am not gunna argue over something so small)

After that I start to move all my mini's, he says OMFG you must be trying to get advantage cause your mins are on 32mm not on 25mm. I say " sry I re-did all my SoBs on 32mm min cause looks better, been so long I forgot to say".

"No you are playing for advantage..." I go "ok you can have 1" extra move on all your units then on first turn and I will move 1" less".

I tabled him turn 3 then heard a lot of if's and but's from him (I also said a lot of: if I failed this etc)

Was thinking of going to a major tourney in middle of year, will I hear a lot of the same (aka whining)? Will I have to change my army if decide to take SoB (e.g. cause of bases etc)?

Sisters are really good. Your friend found this out the hard way. Basing doesn't matter for sisters. Also, necrons are trash tier atm.

Your tourney experience is luck of the draw. I would say that in ten years of doing it, 1 in 3 players were people I would not voluntarily play against. The other two were usually a lot of fun.

Some events I had all awesome players though.

I also had a few events were most of my opponents were not people I'd want to play against given the choice.

You roll dem bones and take what is given to you.

 auticus wrote:
Your tourney experience is luck of the draw. I would say that in ten years of doing it, 1 in 3 players were people I would not voluntarily play against. The other two were usually a lot of fun.

Some events I had all awesome players though.

I also had a few events were most of my opponents were not people I'd want to play against given the choice.

You roll dem bones and take what is given to you.

I put my Seraphim on 32s because they love to fall over and most jump infantry in the game is 32 now. I left my rank and file on 25s, though. 32s are a bit too big for the bolter/melta/flamer chicks. In 7th, it would be a big deal considering templates, in 8th, not so much. Only unfairness with larger bases is you can create wider screen walls with fewer units and consolidation issues. Overall, sounds like another victim of 'I've never seen or played against SoB before."

I honestly think they look good on 32's, not for any advantage or disadvantage (aka disembarking from a transport etc) and they fit the base better (don't fall etc). My seraphim I have on 32's with the clear plastic spike into the model then a 32 base, I like all my mini's to have uniform bases.

There is no rule that sisters have to be on 25mm. 32mm sisters is not modeling for advantage. Also, an old model is still a GW model. It's still WYSIWYG.

When in doubt, shoot a note to the TO.

It sounds like your opponent was a sourpuss. I guess he hasn't experienced how incredibly strong SoB are yet. They are quite good, especially if you get a few acts of faith per turn. No amount of house-rules is going to make SoB beatable by Necrons. SoB are too good and Necrons are just too bad.

You can absolutely command reroll AoF. That's silly.

The usual rule for tournaments is use the base the model came with for size.

Old models are perfectly fine. No rule says you can't use them.

Audustum wrote:
You can absolutely command reroll AoF. That's silly.

The usual rule for tournaments is use the base the model came with for size.

Ood models are perfectly fine. No rule says you can't use them.

That's the problem I will face/debating I suppose, I had a gak tonne of 32's and put my SoB on them (they come with 25's). I think they look better and are better on 32's cause they are metal it makes them more stable etc (didn't consider any advantage/disadvantage of sizes)

Using the old model is perfectly fair and totally legal, and you can definitely use a command point to reroll acts of faith.

The base sizes are more iffy. I don't think there is a particular advantage to 32 mm bases, but there are definitely situations where an irregular base-size can end up affecting the gameplay to the advantage of one side of the other. For example, 32 mm bases gives you a non-trivial advantage when screening and blocking transports from disembarking. 25 mm bases gives you a definite advantage when piling in for the fight phase.

I would personally not make a fuss about it. But at a tourney, some people will. Regards

The new Sisters models come on 32s, that guy was just a jackass.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Audustum wrote:
You can absolutely command reroll AoF. That's silly.

The usual rule for tournaments is use the base the model came with for size.

Ood models are perfectly fine. No rule says you can't use them.

That's the problem I will face/debating I suppose, I had a gak tonne of 32's and put my SoB on them (they come with 25's). I think they look better and are better on 32's cause they are metal it makes them more stable etc (didn't consider any advantage/disadvantage of sizes)

Sfshilo says new SoB come on 32's. If that's true then you have a fair argument to use them as long as that unit now comes with a 32. Marine players went through this.

To help stability on smaller bases, glue a nickel or dime underneath. Does wonders!

If you are going to a tourny just ask the TO

if they ok it then its all good and those guys can go shove it up the eye of terror

otherwise eh.

(get it in print (email)) i recall a story where some one did get the ok for some conversion but some other TO came in and said no mid event or something to that end and the guy couldnt defend him self because he had no proof.

First off cheers all for comments, I have read all,

I will ask the TO.


I don't know this guy that says '32's are the norm' and if it's not a GW release I don't think holds much weight (some guy on internet says the 'new' SoB is 32...awesome...) There is no new SoB it has been the same since I started them (eg when they came out). Think only thing we have gotten is Veridyen (Though I bought, is stupid fine cast) and new Celestien...

I should have just magnetized my bases with the army I didn't sell... sigh laziness.

If in a pick-up game or if you were in a tourny would you care if my SoB all were on 32's?

I wouldn't care, personally. If they were on 40mm bases i would care.

As stated (and as you already acknowledged), the best thing to do when you're unclear is to check first with the TO. If the TO approves it, then it's valid. Old models are considered 100% valid. This is really weird in the case of some of the really old tiny models (the old Ork Trukks, lmfao, are barely larger than a Primaris Marine!), but it's still valid. The base size thing I can't see as being an issue. Sometimes a bigger base is better (easier to spread out), and sometimes smaller bases are better (easier to hide, more models in close combat), but I'd say the two cancel out. As such, I can't see any TO saying no to your 32mm Sisters.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
G'day all,

So I was playing 2k SoB (Me) vs 2k Necrons (him), pick-up game.

We start placing minis. I explain that I have the old Celestien model (rest of army is WYSIWYG). But my Celestien is same base size as the new one and I will make her be able to be targeted ignoring LoS but with character rules etc, (I have the new model but is a pain in the ass to transport). He says: "You really should have the new model to be fair".

So I win roll and start my turn with my Act of faiths. I have 3x Imagifiers in this army (I try to re-roll a failed activation on one with a command point, he says cant do that because before first turn, so I go "ok mate I wont use any re-rolls then on AoF" (pretty sure I can cause at start of turn not before turn but I am not gunna argue over something so small)

After that I start to move all my mini's, he says OMFG you must be trying to get advantage cause your mins are on 32mm not on 25mm. I say " sry I re-did all my SoBs on 32mm min cause looks better, been so long I forgot to say".

"No you are playing for advantage..." I go "ok you can have 1" extra move on all your units then on first turn and I will move 1" less".

I tabled him turn 3 then heard a lot of if's and but's from him (I also said a lot of: if I failed this etc)

Was thinking of going to a major tourney in middle of year, will I hear a lot of the same (aka whining)? Will I have to change my army if decide to take SoB (e.g. cause of bases etc)?

Sorry you had this experience, I've been to a bunch of tourneys and never had this experience, most of the time it's just call the judge or there's a 5 second conversation about stuff and then it's over.

It looks like GW can't make up its mind. The new Celestine comes on a 40mm base Veridyen and the Geminae come on 32 mm and everyone who is metal comes on 25 mm. It wouldn't be illogical to assume that since the plastic models come on 32s that any new plastics would do the same and therefore you've just future proofed your army.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/The-Living-Saint-Detachment-2018

It looks to me like GW is swapping out 25s for 32s whereever it can.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:
First off cheers all for comments, I have read all,

I will ask the TO.


I don't know this guy that says '32's are the norm' and if it's not a GW release I don't think holds much weight (some guy on internet says the 'new' SoB is 32...awesome...) There is no new SoB it has been the same since I started them (eg when they came out). Think only thing we have gotten is Veridyen (Though I bought, is stupid fine cast) and new Celestien...

I should have just magnetized my bases with the army I didn't sell... sigh laziness.

If in a pick-up game or if you were in a tourny would you care if my SoB all were on 32's?

In casual play I wouldn't notice or care.

In a tournament I wouldn't notice. If you told me I'd care but not to the point of refusing the game. Just ask the TO to make a resolution or something (after all you already paid and traveled there so we might as well have some fun!).

As far as Old Celestine vs. New Celestine, your opponent is just being an ass.

First off, antennae, gun barrels, and wings are not targetable parts of the model, so the change in size isn't an issue [and you have near-perfect control over whether she can or can't be shot anyway because she's a character], second she's still an official GW model for St.C.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As far as Old Celestine vs. New Celestine, your opponent is just being an ass.

First off, antennae, gun barrels, and wings are not targetable parts of the model, so the change in size isn't an issue [and you have near-perfect control over whether she can or can't be shot anyway because she's a character], second she's still an official GW model for St.C.

I didn't think the antennae/wings thing was true in 8th? Now it's any part of the model. That was a 7th rule, or so I thought.

I thought in 8th any part of the model can be used to shoot from or target etc?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As far as Old Celestine vs. New Celestine, your opponent is just being an ass.

First off, antennae, gun barrels, and wings are not targetable parts of the model, so the change in size isn't an issue [and you have near-perfect control over whether she can or can't be shot anyway because she's a character], second she's still an official GW model for St.C.

Where does it say that in the rules? Although my friends and I dont count wings or weapon tips, thats a house rule for us.

Yeah your opponant sounded like a spaz lord

Audustum wrote:

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

Audustum wrote:
You can absolutely command reroll AoF. That's silly.

The usual rule for tournaments is use the base the model came with for size.

Ood models are perfectly fine. No rule says you can't use them.

That's the problem I will face/debating I suppose, I had a gak tonne of 32's and put my SoB on them (they come with 25's). I think they look better and are better on 32's cause they are metal it makes them more stable etc (didn't consider any advantage/disadvantage of sizes)

Sfshilo says new SoB come on 32's. If that's true then you have a fair argument to use them as long as that unit now comes with a 32. Marine players went through this.

To help stability on smaller bases, glue a nickel or dime underneath. Does wonders!

This box contains the miniatures necessary to assemble a Dominion Squad. You’ll receive a Sisters of Battle Canoness, 2 Battle Sisters with Flamer, a Battle Sister with Storm Bolter and a Battle Sister with Meltagun, supplied with 5 Citadel 25mm Round bases.

And looking at pics if those are 32mm bases no way they ever fit 25mm base. So guess still 25mm. That or promo photos have them at 25mm and text is wrong.

Still if that becomes issue opponent ain't worth wasting time to play with one more second.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As far as Old Celestine vs. New Celestine, your opponent is just being an ass.

First off, antennae, gun barrels, and wings are not targetable parts of the model, so the change in size isn't an issue [and you have near-perfect control over whether she can or can't be shot anyway because she's a character], second she's still an official GW model for St.C.

Where does it say that in the rules? Although my friends and I dont count wings or weapon tips, thats a house rule for us.

Nowhere. It's ANY part of model to ANY part of enemy. Tip of a hair showing behind building? Sees and is seen and shoots and doesn't get any cover. That's 8 ed for you!

They recently changed the descriptions, because when you looked at the SoB command squad it said in description get a heavy flamer (thought the picture was a normal flamer) for example and a few other dependencies now is fixed (set was to picture), same with the previous dominion etc (description different to what get).

But ye all are still 25's, I can say the pictures are on 25's (cause all mine are 32's and look much better and don't fall over...).

I'm going to run into a very similar issue at Adepticon (dont mean to hijack) I have a completley converted Inq army (everything is still WYSIWYG however some parts of the models are 3rd party, most of the army is GW but there are a lot of fun conversions so the army looks unique. I'm worried I'll also be whined at due to it not being the "official" model.

Also, I'd love the chance to play a sisters army, they're so rare I dont understand how people complain when they play them.

Celestine's wings are absolutely targetable. Any part of the model is, unless it doesn't have a base (vehicles). Then you're told to ignore things like sponsors, wings, etc. Thanks 8th for making it more confusing!

Also, Celestine comes on a 40, the two Geminae are on 32s. Every other sisters model comes on a 25.

I modeled my new Celestine on a clear post as opposed to those lame scrolls. She ended up being about 1/2" shorter than the when on the scrolls. If anyone ever complains to me at a tournament about it, I'm going to swap her out for the old model and then watch them get red.

As I pointed out before the other special edition SoB also comes on a 32. It's all on the link I posted previously.

It's an odd legacy hanger over as older spacemarine units that gw have lost interest in are still supplied with 25mm despite GW being clear that power armour gets you a 32mm base. Sisters as such old and unloved (by GW before I get hate) minis are also in this time warp of having not been updated to 32mm.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As far as Old Celestine vs. New Celestine, your opponent is just being an ass.

First off, antennae, gun barrels, and wings are not targetable parts of the model, so the change in size isn't an issue [and you have near-perfect control over whether she can or can't be shot anyway because she's a character], second she's still an official GW model for St.C.

Yes, they are targetable. You're thinking of 7th. LOS in 8th is to any part of the model.