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Just a thought - but assuming

1.) One was Found
2.) the Mechanicus were able to Digest the basic components of it..

How would life change in the Imperium?

With a fully functional STC the Imperium would plain out wreck any other faction. Technology rivaled only by the Necrons but with so much more resources/bodies.

The Imperium immediately consumes itself in civil war with half of the factions wanting to destroy the STC as blasphemy against the machine god and the other half fighting over who gets to have exclusive control over it. Centuries later the few survivors, now annexed by the Tau empire, discover that the whole STC thing was a translation error and rather than useful technology it was just an RPG book with a bunch of stats for various gear and NPCs and such.

If they are able to disseminate the tech to guard level...

Imagine every guardsman walking around in armour as strong as terminator armour, but looks like guardian armour, every weapon being a plasma gun that doesn't get hot, the ability to make and break stars, battle automata akin to the men or iron...

It would literally be game over for every other race.

I think you are vastly overestimating what STC can do. And as Peregrine points out, it would be viewed with suspicion and superstition by many, and many others would want to control it or destroy it. And likely nobody would know how to make use of it.

Depending on how taken, destroy the impirum in civil war and status quo.

Or warships rolling out the new yards of Mars with black hole cannons, chrono and other necron grade weaponry able to hit targets in a full blown warp storm.

A baneblade was a light tank... Think about that. A blaneblade is not even a lamen Russ... Maybe a Chirmerra with heavy gun.

Every marine in basically terminator armour but light as power Armour and able to bound over rubble like nothing armed with distenergration and other weapons on mass.

DAOT gear was insanely powerful. Hand guns that could likely vaporise enemy tanks.. As standard weapons...

No one would stand a chance once they got that rolling bar craft worlds. Necrons.

So i assuming the Imperium doesn't tear itself a part ....

Are you all essentially saying that the type of gear that can be manufactured from STC plans alone would be enough to turn "ye Average Guardsman" into a killing machine?

Hrmm...... one begins to wonder what wars during the Dark Age of Technology must have been like if this is true.

Yeah..

A 300 ton tank able to challenge modern lighter titans was a "light tank"

So anything super heavy would rivials a. Ordinarits for firepower probbly in scaled if holds true.

The "average" level of technology was massively higher. What now considered a tech relic, or a master work was just every day weapons.

Mankind was all dominant, they had driven races like Orks to edges of empire and could whoop ass on anything else not fighting 1000 tiny wars. They could concentrate there sheer mass into total overwhelming force.

So they could make really large tanks? That's not that impressive. The STC also make rhinos. They aren't all that powerful.

The deal with STC’s is that they would evolve to outmatch any changing competitive advantages other races might try to use against IoM. It’s always one step ahead when it comes to invention and production.

Well, it wasn't good enough to defeat the orks or elder that were around at the time.

And it held all the scientific knowledge of humanity, and would use that to design a solution to whatever problem it was given. That doesn't mean it can magically make anything that you can dream up. It was still limited to existing technology. And the fact that it is an AI means that, as pointed out, the current imperium would be horrified by it and probably destroy it.

 Aetare wrote:
The deal with STC’s is that they would evolve to outmatch any changing competitive advantages other races might try to use against IoM. It’s always one step ahead when it comes to invention and production.

Yeah, if you where fighting on a swampy world, your designs would become more amphibious capable than enemy, based on information, they evolve designs and weapon choices to fit.


Also bar size and sheer firepower. These are the most advanced materials and weapons possible.

A STC Super heavy would be a mobile bunker capable of taking on a fortress and armoured and could shielded beyond any 40k levels thought possible.

Massively advanced machines, not just relying on huge bulk for huge sections of understood tech, imagine a volcano cannon mounted on a regular tank hunter, compacted.

A vanquished cannon, neutron lasers, and more.

I could see a civil war breaking out within the Imperium, and possibly even with the Mechanicus. Coudln't tell you how it would end though.

I think people overestimate STC technology. STC designed the current imperial navy warships, landraiders, and similar. Those are basically peak technologies.

The IoM would be better able to adapt and create new vehicles, but they're not getting miracle tech, they're not getting Necron 'alter reality' tech.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I think you are vastly overestimating what STC can do. And as Peregrine points out, it would be viewed with suspicion and superstition by many, and many others would want to control it or destroy it. And likely nobody would know how to make use of it.

An STC is the sum knowledge of the human race during the dark age of technology, if anything I'm understating it, I do agree with peregrine however, that's why I said "if" and that's a mighty "if"


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 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So they could make really large tanks? That's not that impressive. The STC also make rhinos. They aren't all that powerful.

The rhino was a farm vehicle for colonists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Well, it wasn't good enough to defeat the orks or elder that were around at the time.

And it held all the scientific knowledge of humanity, and would use that to design a solution to whatever problem it was given. That doesn't mean it can magically make anything that you can dream up. It was still limited to existing technology. And the fact that it is an AI means that, as pointed out, the current imperium would be horrified by it and probably destroy it.

It was good enough to beat orks and eldar, just looking at how far humanity had spread during the great crusade is a pretty good indication that humans beat eldar, you don't let a potential enemy completely surround you if you can stop it.


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 John Prins wrote:
I think people overestimate STC technology. STC designed the current imperial navy warships, landraiders, and similar. Those are basically peak technologies.

The IoM would be better able to adapt and create new vehicles, but they're not getting miracle tech, they're not getting Necron 'alter reality' tech.

They are peak imperial technology, not dark age, for example dark angels during the heresy had a dark age weapon that fired contained black holes, that's "miracle tech" right there.

And during the dark age of technology the sum total of their technological information was used to make land raiders and rhinos.

The great crusade was long after they lost all that technology from the dark age of technology. Before they lost all that technology, they evidently didn't make much of a dent in the vast eldar empire or finish off the orks.

I think it's kind of silly to assume that they had magical technology that is better than anyone else could ever have. If they had the STC database they'd actually be able to make new things instead of continuing to use only the few things they still have the plans for. They'd be more adaptable and efficient. But they wouldn't suddenly have all powerful technology.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
And during the dark age of technology the sum total of their technological information was used to make land raiders and rhinos.

The great crusade was long after they lost all that technology from the dark age of technology. Before they lost all that technology, they evidently didn't make much of a dent in the vast eldar empire or finish off the orks.

I think it's kind of silly to assume that they had magical technology that is better than anyone else could ever have. If they had the STC database they'd actually be able to make new things instead of continuing to use only the few things they still have the plans for. They'd be more adaptable and efficient. But they wouldn't suddenly have all powerful technology.

You know there is some standing lore to support Albino on this.....and at the same time to support the others as well.

STCs were Colony Construction Units essentially. If what we are discussing about in the other thread about the Dark Age of Technology is true, and this is supposed to be all "Asimov/Bradbury/et al." Golden Age of Science Fiction stuff, than it makes sense that the STCs aren't exactly Doomsday Mechanisms.

-But- the tricky part here is this, even if STCs were just useful (commonplace?) units for Colony Construction/Terraforming/etc. - they still stand above the rest of what can be produced in the current time period.

It does make me wonder though - if STCs are just like Medicore things for the People who lived in the Dark Age of Technology, it does point to the fact that the Dark Age people must have been capable of True Wonder Tech...... akin to (surpassing?) the Necrons.

A complete and functioning STC would completely revolutionize the Mechanicus to (or close) Golden age of technology level of tech. This would likely make the mechanicus the dominant faction within the imperium, it would also lead to the extinction of eldar and tau, suppression of the orks, which leaves chaos, tyranids and necrons as the only threats, which could be dealt with over time.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
And during the dark age of technology the sum total of their technological information was used to make land raiders and rhinos.

Yeah. Farmer vehicles. Not humans battle tanks. They got converted into that use when...well when nothing better was available!

4WD pick up is mighty fine battle tank...When that's the best you can produce. But as US can now produce M1A2 abrams no surprise which gets used as main battle tank. However if 4WD pickup is best you can produce it can be used as fighting vehicle as well because it's best you have got.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
And during the dark age of technology the sum total of their technological information was used to make land raiders and rhinos.

The great crusade was long after they lost all that technology from the dark age of technology. Before they lost all that technology, they evidently didn't make much of a dent in the vast eldar empire or finish off the orks.

I think it's kind of silly to assume that they had magical technology that is better than anyone else could ever have. If they had the STC database they'd actually be able to make new things instead of continuing to use only the few things they still have the plans for. They'd be more adaptable and efficient. But they wouldn't suddenly have all powerful technology.

The rhino was their equivalent to a tractor dude, just one that could be heavily modified at a pinch to do any job, from Agri work to battle tank, that's an amazing bit of tech alone, and the land raider is the toughest tank in the galaxy and they barerly know how it works in 40k, even the bottom dregs of what they knew is deadly in the 41st Millennium, let that sink in for a second, now apply that even the lowliest colony with an STC could mass produce them, again, technologically speaking that is a amazing feat.

And also the aforementioned black hole cannon, that's creating black holes, containing them, firing them without instantly destroying the planet your on and dissipating them afterwards, that is miracle tech alone.

Isn't there a book where a Mechanicus ships from the DAOT (an Ark IIRC) just destroy a craftwold by shooting black holes ?
DAOT tech may not convert every guard in an elite super warrior, but, but it would definitely put the Imperium on par with the necon empire.

DAOT tech truly IS miracle tech

Well, you're just assuming that it could make tanks way better than a land raider, it just happens that only the really crappy templates survived. There doesn't seem to be any justification for this belief. But that's one of the nice things about the vagueness of the setting and it's long lost history.

 godardc wrote:
Isn't there a book where a Mechanicus ships from the DAOT (an Ark IIRC) just destroy a craftwold by shooting black holes ?
DAOT tech may not convert every guard in an elite super warrior, but, but it would definitely put the Imperium on par with the necon empire.

DAOT tech truly IS miracle tech

Maybe not acraftowold but hit a hard to hit enemy eldar warship. In a storm. It dodged with a farseer prediction.

Ark had none of it, fired a Crono canno, moved it backwards and put it back in line of thr black hole cannon...

Like out trolled a space troll!

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Well, you're just assuming that it could make tanks way better than a land raider, it just happens that only the really crappy templates survived. There doesn't seem to be any justification for this belief. But that's one of the nice things about the vagueness of the setting and it's long lost history.

Given the land raider and rhino were massed produced tech that even farmers could build... yes, it's pretty obvious purpose built military tech would be much much better.

Look at terminator armour, it's basically glorified janitor armour, designed to clean out the inside of plasma generators.... and it's the toughest armour in 40k.

Point is this, we only have drips of the tech they had that is barely understood and difficult to produce, and it STILL beats nearly everyone else.

If every colonist had access to every technology ever invented, than it is not obvious that military technology would be much better than what they had. In fact, clearly military technology wouldn't be any better than what the average colony could make. That's kind of the point of the STC.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
If every colonist had access to every technology ever invented.

An STC is the sum knowledge of the human race during the dark age of technology, if anything I'm understating it, I do agree with peregrine however, that's why I said "if" and that's a mighty "if"

I think this is where we are having an Issue. And it may simply just be due to the fact that GW has over the years amended and re-amended the lore as time goes on.


So here's a question - Can someone actually provide a source for the statement that either:

a.) STC is Colony Construction stuff

b.) STC is the sum of all human knowledge

Because..... what an STC actually is has a large effect on what we can or cannot say it can do.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
If every colonist had access to every technology ever invented, than it is not obvious that military technology would be much better than what they had. In fact, clearly military technology wouldn't be any better than what the average colony could make. That's kind of the point of the STC.

that makes sense. if everybody has access to the same level of tech, there would be no difference between the two.

since during doat colonies might be cut off from reinforcements it would make sense that they should have the ability to counter any threat. with the STC it would allow them to manufacture everything they'd need to on an as needed basis. That way they wouldn't need to have military vehicles sitting around when there is no threat. I kinda envision a fully functional STC as a stereolithography machine crossed with a star trek replicator that you just input raw materials into and out pops a landraider.

but more to the topic, it would either usher in a new golden age of the imperium or be the straw that broke the proverbial camels back and some radical techpriest would make men of iron and start that whole scheiss show over again.

GrapeApe wrote:
So i assuming the Imperium doesn't tear itself a part ....

There's where you're going wrong. The Imperium can not have good things, finding an STC would inevitably be worse than if it had never been found.


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 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So they could make really large tanks? That's not that impressive. The STC also make rhinos. They aren't all that powerful.

Exactly. If Rhinos/LRBTs/etc exist then what are they classified as? Having a Baneblade designated a "light tank" makes no sense when you have a bunch of other tanks that are much smaller. The obvious conclusion is that the "light tank" label is mistaken, either as a translation mistake in the records (it really means "laser tank", etc) or as some kind of funding scam where the engineers wanted to build one and sold it to management as a practical "light tank" project instead of the land-battleship it actually was.


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 Formosa wrote:
The rhino was a farm vehicle for colonists.

Then STC designs are a joke, as is the idea that finding a complete one would be some kind of miracle. The Rhino is incredibly poorly designed as a farm vehicle, and very clearly intended to be an APC. So either it's actually a tank and the "farm vehicle" designation is a mistake, or STC designs are terrible engineering and not worth having.

At the very least, the super powerful stuff that is currently rare in the 40k armoury because of knowledge lost when forge worlds.were overrun could be brought back into general circulation. Forge worlds.and hive worlds could be refitted with new or even upgraded manufacturing kit to replace stuff that is jury rigged and limping along. Everything could be fitted with laser destroyers and executioner cannon rather than the rather low tech battlecannon.

Grav vehicles would become the norm rather than the exception.

In my view it wouldn't necessarily massively increase the level of technology, but it would.permit the Imperium to refresh it's.manufacturing base and pump.out quality in quantity.

Of.course this would lead the Imperium to.try to.expand.massively.again and over reach itself.once.more.

 Peregrine wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:
So i assuming the Imperium doesn't tear itself a part ....

There's where you're going wrong. The Imperium can not have good things, finding an STC would inevitably be worse than if it had never been found.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
So they could make really large tanks? That's not that impressive. The STC also make rhinos. They aren't all that powerful.

Exactly. If Rhinos/LRBTs/etc exist then what are they classified as? Having a Baneblade designated a "light tank" makes no sense when you have a bunch of other tanks that are much smaller. The obvious conclusion is that the "light tank" label is mistaken, either as a translation mistake in the records (it really means "laser tank", etc) or as some kind of funding scam where the engineers wanted to build one and sold it to management as a practical "light tank" project instead of the land-battleship it actually was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
The rhino was a farm vehicle for colonists.

Then STC designs are a joke, as is the idea that finding a complete one would be some kind of miracle. The Rhino is incredibly poorly designed as a farm vehicle, and very clearly intended to be an APC. So either it's actually a tank and the "farm vehicle" designation is a mistake, or STC designs are terrible engineering and not worth having.

Nope it all makes sense

A baneblade is a Light TANK, as in a light main battle tank.

The Rhino was a farm vehicle the RH'1NO, NOT an APC which it was later converted into by the Imperium, the original farm variant likely has you know... agriculture equipment, either way it doesnt detract from the FACT that these vehicles are still excellent in the 41st millenium, but run of the mill colony fodder in the dark age.