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Im curious about how most people feel about proxying.
Would you allow it would you not allow it do you do it, what are your thoughts?

Allowed within reason.

Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you think it is cool? Go for it.

Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you can't quite get WYSIWYG? Ok, but it had better be clear in your written army list which model has which upgrades and the proxy model needs to be identifiable as separate from the WYSIWYG ones.

Is it a cheap toy from walmart that you're using because you don't want to buy the real model? No.

As above, depends on the situation.

Is it because it looks cooler, and I can still tell what it is, and is similar in terms of base and size? Sure!

Is it because you can't be bothered to buy the actual model (and not just for a "trial run" of the unit, which is fine), has little effort put in, and/or is wildly different in terms of size and base? Probably not.

InB4 everyone confuses proxies with "counts-as" and the 5-6 page arguments that will ensue...

Back in 2nd edition, my friend had an army of metal hormagaunts..... they were all pennies.

Since then, proxying has just been a part of the hobby for me. I don't care at all.

I play for fun, and I want to make sure my opponent is having fun. So if they want to proxy, it doesn't bother me one bit.

 Peregrine wrote:
Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you think it is cool? Go for it.

Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you can't quite get WYSIWYG? Ok, but it had better be clear in your written army list which model has which upgrades and the proxy model needs to be identifiable as separate from the WYSIWYG ones.

Is it a cheap toy from walmart that you're using because you don't want to buy the real model? No.

An example would be a tomb blade built with different kit proxying.

Angusman wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you think it is cool? Go for it.

Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you can't quite get WYSIWYG? Ok, but it had better be clear in your written army list which model has which upgrades and the proxy model needs to be identifiable as separate from the WYSIWYG ones.

Is it a cheap toy from walmart that you're using because you don't want to buy the real model? No.

An example would be a tomb blade built with different kit proxying.

Depends on the kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BuFFo wrote:
Back in 2nd edition, my friend had an army of metal hormagaunts..... they were all pennies.

Since then, proxying has just been a part of the hobby for me. I don't care at all.

I play for fun, and I want to make sure my opponent is having fun. So if they want to proxy, it doesn't bother me one bit.

Honestly, if you're just going to use pennies why bother playing 40k at all? The rules are trash, and the only redeeming factor is the models. So if you don't have the models...

I'd have no issue w/porxying as long as it's within reason.

I am totally fine with proxies within reason. To me within reason is another MODEL (so not a walmart toy) of appropriate size. As far as proxying weapons on models I am absolutely fine with that as long as it is uniform. If all your meltas are plasma thats absolutely fine. If these 3 meltas a plasma and these two meltas are flamers I am going to raise an eyebrow.

I just used a turtle in place of a dreadnought

but it seemed right

Definitely ask ahead of time, just don't get all offended when someone says your Coke bottle can't be Mortarion.

If we are playing a fun game, go ahead. Proxy the complete force.

At a tourny, I'd say no please dont. I've got my mind on two manythings to want to try to recall if thats really a plasma or a melta.

I play two armies with tons of proxies because their product lines are so old they can either drink (Eldar) or draw social security (Sororitas).

I'm pretty sure I have as many Necromunda and Sigmar models as I have actual 40K line models.

Eshers for IG Infantry Squads and Witch Aelves for Howling Banshees have been my two most recent ones.

The general feel I get from many people is:

1) Make it close. Size, aesthetic, color. All of these things kinda matter to making the model feel more appropriate in the game.

2) Have some fun lore on why you're using non-standard models. I wanted crazy Catachan orphans that couldn't actually make it to the Sororitas, but were used for other "functions". And my witch aelves are exodites were incorporated by a splinter remnant of Biel-tan. Gotta get the bodies back after Yvraine walked off with half of them... zzz.

3) At least try to incorporate a base of a GW-line model. People at their stores and their events tend to get a lot less pissy when you're at least still supporting the parent company and the hobby.

4) Rule of cool. This tends to help the most. Make a unique spin on a model that looks awesome (and not a coke can), and people are usually too struck staring at it to argue. Take a less-played unit and convert it for even greater affect. I don't care if your converted dark reapers are awesome, you still fielded 30 and I don't like you

Of course it is all subject to the feelings of the players around you, but I've found sticking to a few guidelines really ups the chances of people welcoming it instead of scoffing and dismissing your efforts and asking you to not play them.

 Peregrine wrote:
Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you think it is cool? Go for it.

Is it a legitimate model in the style of 40k that you are using because you can't quite get WYSIWYG?...

If by legit model you mean Sci Fi model you bought from a company that is not GW but you are using to to rep this dude, that's all good with me.

I personally do not mind proxies most of the time.

Is it a cheap toy from walmart that you're using because you don't want to buy the real model? No.

Actually I am okay with this in certain situations. Rule of cool applies personally.

If someone wanted to use an aluminium can to rep a model they were testing out, I am okay with that as well for a few games, or if they just started collecting and are buying things and painting them I don't mind proxies as they will eventually be replaced by real models.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
... As far as proxying weapons on models I am absolutely fine with that as long as it is uniform. If all your meltas are plasma thats absolutely fine. If these 3 meltas a plasma and these two meltas are flamers I am going to raise an eyebrow.

That is "Counts as", not Proxy.

Proxy would be taping match sticks to certain models and using them as meltaguns, and taping paperclips to other models and using them as plasma guns.

Saying "All power fists are power axes instead" is counts as J/S.

but overall I am usually relaxed when it comes to this game. as long as I have my friends and a cold beer all is well.

 DeathReaper wrote:
If by legit model you mean Sci Fi model you bought from a company that is not GW but you are using to to rep this dude, that's all good with me.

GW, non-GW, don't really care as long as it looks like something that could be found on a 40k battlefield.

Actually I am okay with this in certain situations. Rule of cool applies personally.

IMO rule of cool never applies here. A $5 toy is never going to look cool without extensive conversion and painting. The vast majority of the time people use them as proxies it has nothing to do with putting something cool on the table, it's just an attempt to avoid having to pay for a real model.

For a game or two proxied models are cool but I’d ask that my opponent attempt to get the real model on the table. But I wouldn’t be too picky with wargear as long as it’s not something like “these flamers are meltas, these flamers here are plasma and these flamers? Lascannons”.

I'm fine with proxies as long as;

1-there aren't too many. I have a lot of things to remember in 40k, and if you are doing multiple proxies or 'counts as', I might get the feeling you're just trying to overwhelm me/confuse me, and I won't feel good about that. "I thought you said those guys with stormbolters were flamers?" "No, no, I said the stormbolters were flamers and the flamers were combi-plasma. The boltguns WITH scopes are meltas, and the boltguns WITHOUT scopes are regular boltguns!"

2-There is no modeling for advantage going on. (base sizes, or very big/very small models.)

I have a unit of assault terminators that use the round shields from Stormcast eternals and grey knight power spears, they are meant to represent a "300" / hoplites theme and are counts-as thunderhammer/stormshield. No one has ever balked at them.

I've got about 57 "Starfleet Marines" models. I'm going to use them as Guardsmen/Cultists. Can I afford Cultists and/or Guardsmen? Sure. I just figured the Starfleet Marines are old and rare models that look cool, and I want to field literal redshirts on the tabletop.

I'm not strict towards other people about WYSIWYG.

Me? I always play WYSIWYG, regardless of the level of competitiveness of my models and options available. I've put over 600 magnets in my armies to avoid proxies

I'm also in favor of third party models, scratch built models and conversions if they have the same dimensions and look similar (especially their wargear) to the original ones.

In fact I have tons of scratch built models and conversions myself. But all of them resemble the original models they should substitute. A 2$ truck toy with orks bits is perfectly ok as an ork trukk if dimensions are the same and there's a little effort on the conversion in order to make it look properly orky.

I'm just a bit pissed about those players that own large armies and proxy some of their models because they don't have the exact wargear they want to field. The perfect example is the razorback, the majority of SM players just glued the heavy bolter or the lascannon but they proxy as an assault cannon. I've magneized my models to avoid this behaviour, it's really so easy that it should be required. Painting the model, even at an acceptable level, is way more difficult and yet requested.

Generally speaking proxying for having a chance of the battlefield is perfectly fine IMHO, and this is tipycal for new players who actually don't own many models, but proxying for being competitive is not You don't have 30 dark reapers? Buy the models or field something else.

Pretty sure this gets asked every edition, with the same viewpoints, and rightly so I guess. Models and equipment options change, their size changes, their cost goes up; there's the fear that extreme someone will use this to have an entire army of pennies which will offend your sense of what 40k should be; the fear that your lovingly converted predator might be rejected because it's got a custom turret; the list goes on.

All tourneys have rules, those will tell you or you should clear it with the TO if in doubt. Especially at tourneys, where some people will look for any advantage over you, they might feel complaining to the TO about your models will give them a psychological advantage (another great fear to have).

Outside of tourneys, do what you like and enjoy every minute of it with nothing to fear. You can't force people to play you if they really don't want to, but most reasonable people are fine with creativity when there's nothing on the line.

Personally, as a 2nd edition player, proxies and conversions are actively encouraged in the books and White Dwarfs, complete with guides on how to make them, so this forms part of the experience. The idea of rejecting something only because it's not stock feels kinda snobbish, but I guess that comes from a time when there were rules but no models for many things, and we had no choice but to make our own.

Ork armies back then were truly something to behold, awesome even when they looked terrible.

I'm perfectly fine with counts-as stuff as long as I can tell what's what and it's not some cheap toy or a dixie cup or something. I myself regularly use AoS Khorne Bloodreavers as Khorne Berzerkers because I like the models way better, and their wargear is accurately represented (they have swords and axes). I even asked the Adepticon staff if those were okay as a counts-as, and they said it would be fine. Personally I love seeing what creative interpretations people come up with for how their units look, and that includes conversions and counts-as models.

In a casual setting, it has more to do with who you are as a person.

There are guys I know, where I would be 100% fine with them using an old shoe as a land raider. But not everyone gets this kind of treatment. Because I know they wouldn't model for advantage (or, shoe for advantage), and they're generally really nice people who just want to roll dice. Meanwhile, some people are bordering on "That Guy" and would claim the shoelace gets line of sight... then stretch it across the table.

In a general sense if you have an established playgroup, you should understand what kind of proxy/count-as is acceptable.

If you are playing with new players you don't know - it's best to bring as close to WYSIWYG as possible, and ask to substitute for coolness.

So, I figured I'd ask here.

I'm building a bunch of Metal Slug tank model kits, which I'm going to be converting into Chimera Chassis tanks (Hellhounds, mantacors, hydras, salamanders, ect), and using the left over bits to scratch build tauroxi.

1. Proxy, counts as, or conversion: What would they be? (They're about the same size as a chimera. A bit smaller in land area, but a bit taller too. They'll have the appropriate weapons, and be easy to tell.)

2. Would they be acceptable in game at your table?

(link to a picture of the basic model pre-conversion: https://orig00.deviantart.net/b573/f/2015/261/f/8/metal_slug__model_kit__sv_001__1_by_ayertelis-d9a1qp7.jpg)

I don't like them personally, but I wouldn't care as long as it was the same general size, but I've played games with vodka bottle Drop Pods and land raider boxes for Titans. I'm not an especially uptight person about that kind of stuff.

I'm ok with them within reason. I proxy Stormhawks as Stormtalons. Such a cooler model to me than Stormtalons. Same weapon loadout. So far no one has had a problem with it. I have seen Red solo cup drop pod armies, and I was ok with it.

Don't care a lick about proxying. I'd rather play than not play.

 Mmmpi wrote:
So, I figured I'd ask here.

I'm building a bunch of Metal Slug tank model kits, which I'm going to be converting into Chimera Chassis tanks (Hellhounds, mantacors, hydras, salamanders, ect), and using the left over bits to scratch build tauroxi.

1. Proxy, counts as, or conversion: What would they be? (They're about the same size as a chimera. A bit smaller in land area, but a bit taller too. They'll have the appropriate weapons, and be easy to tell.)

2. Would they be acceptable in game at your table?

(link to a picture of the basic model pre-conversion: https://orig00.deviantart.net/b573/f/2015/261/f/8/metal_slug__model_kit__sv_001__1_by_ayertelis-d9a1qp7.jpg)

1 - Conversion

2 - Absolutely

 Formosa wrote:
Allowed within reason.

^^ This.

I don’t want to see a Magic card proxied as a Fire Raptor... had an opponent try to pull that one on me and tell me I was a jerk because I said "No way."

 Primark G wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Allowed within reason.

^^ This.

I don’t want to see a Magic card proxied as a Fire Raptor... had an opponent try to pull that one on me and tell me I was a jerk because I said "No way."

So unreasonable