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Everyone says the gunline is the way to go for this edition. But it seems to me that vehicles are a lot tougher in 8th compaired to older editions. If you start with the assumption that the sole reason for a Rhino is to get your choppy-choppy units into base to base by Turn 2, then a Rhino Rush of Assault Marines doesn't look like such a bad idea.

Q. If I have a squad of 10 Marines in a Rhino, can a Captain or Chaplain still fit inside, or do I have to drop my squad size to 9?

Q. Can vehicles contest objectives this edition?

1) no the rino transport capacity is 10 models, no more

2) it can control an objective, and contest it, unless your opponent has ob sec. At which point you are SoL

As a side note, rinos are still not that great. With the way wounding works in 8th, t7 is not that big of a deal. In previous eds the S4 being the bread and butter strength for most of the game, was still wounding T7 on 6s now you are wounding T7 on a 5 with T4 weapons.

t8 is basically the new T7 of 8th ed

Rhinos are only as good as what they transport.

If you put Berzerkers in them, they're valuable. I can't offhand think of anything else that would benefit from a Rhino.

 Marmatag wrote:
Rhinos are only as good as what they transport.

If you put Berzerkers in them, they're valuable. I can't offhand think of anything else that would benefit from a Rhino.

rubrics just because they are really slow and it's a good safe way to get warp flamers up the field.

Melta vets in a rhino is also a possibility, but still, space marines don’t have any units worth a 70 point tax to useable

Rhino is now a heavy tax on stuff and really it's not that hard to knock off enough wounds to remove any benefit from using them.

There's a reason it wasn't a thing pre faq and won't be post faq.

35 points they were cheap enough to use, now they're a quarter of your points only one will make it across unmolested and the one squad that assaults will be overwhelmed by the defenders.

Plague Marines like rhinos....

Anywho, Rhinos are lacking. Razorbacks are OK gun platforms for SM, but thats mainly because ol' gulliman

It's probably even less viable post-FAQ since we now have no units that can come down and draw fire from the encroaching party buses.

Best Rhino Rush:

Chaos Space Marine Rhino with a combi-plasma full of 10 zerkers. Move it up, move it up again with warptime (24" across the board now), overcharge the Combi-Plasma and fire both barrels, giving you about a 50% chance of self-immolating before CP re-rolls, self-destruct the rhino and force your zerks to disembark 3 more inches (27"!) and then charge in the Charge Phase.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Best Rhino Rush:

Chaos Space Marine Rhino with a combi-plasma full of 10 zerkers. Move it up, move it up again with warptime (24" across the board now), overcharge the Combi-Plasma and fire both barrels, giving you about a 50% chance of self-immolating before CP re-rolls, self-destruct the rhino and force your zerks to disembark 3 more inches (27"!) and then charge in the Charge Phase.

or just run them as alpha legion and deep strike a jump pack sorcerer in with the warp time ... bit more reliable and safer

 Latro_ wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Best Rhino Rush:

Chaos Space Marine Rhino with a combi-plasma full of 10 zerkers. Move it up, move it up again with warptime (24" across the board now), overcharge the Combi-Plasma and fire both barrels, giving you about a 50% chance of self-immolating before CP re-rolls, self-destruct the rhino and force your zerks to disembark 3 more inches (27"!) and then charge in the Charge Phase.

or just run them as alpha legion and deep strike a jump pack sorcerer in with the warp time ... bit more reliable and safer

But not as glorious! Dirty alpha legion tricksters got nothing on the self-destructing World Eater lunatic trucks!

Blood claws in a rhino are meh, but not garbage and with the codex they may even be good. SW can also have wolf guards with stormbolters which are a decent unit that needs a ride or the plasma redundant grey hunters squad with 2 plasma guns, 2 plasma pistols and a combi plasma.

The rhino itself is among the best transports in the game, but most space marines units don't need a ride or they are among the worst ones in their codex.

It works well for chaos and sisters, even if sisters have better delivery solution, but the rhino is the cheapest and a good option anyway.

I've always felt that my Marines would kill for a Serpent, but my Aspect Warriors would kill for a Rhino.

The Rhino is very cheap and durable for it's points. If they kill it, it soaked a lot of firepower. If they didn't you can deny overwatch or bog something down in CC.

The problem, as mentioned upthread, is what do you transport in it. Getting a Tac squad upfield isn't that big a deal in competitive games these days.

Razorbacks are better than Rhinos. They shoot things well.

Rhinos have the problem of being 75 points and only having a pair of storm bolters, which, now that I think about it, could be worse.

For the most part, the armed transports are better than the unarmed transports. Vehicle rush is viable, but you have to pick the right vehicle.

Well, Razorbacks cant' take a 10-man Tac squad.

But nobody does that anways, these days.

Bharring wrote:
Well, Razorbacks cant' take a 10-man Tac squad.

But nobody does that anways, these days.

Yeah, but what 10-man tac squad?

Razorbacks are not good for vehicle rush, not only they just have a 6 man transport capacity but all their weapons are heavy which means they don't like to move unless they're forced to.

Transport capacity for razorbacks is mostly useful for reducing the drops or to save the infantries from the anti infantry since you may don't have the need to screen the razorbacks and the troops are fine inside the vehicle.

 Blackie wrote:
Razorbacks are not good for vehicle rush, not only they just have a 6 man transport capacity but all their weapons are heavy which means they don't like to move unless they're forced to.

Transport capacity for razorbacks is mostly useful for reducing the drops or to save the infantries from the anti infantry since you may don't have the need to screen the razorbacks and the troops are fine inside the vehicle.

Okay point. However, assault cannon razorbacks have to move T1 anyway to get in range, might as well drop off some Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard or fun melee unit while I'm at it, since it looks like they're going to play a more relevant role in the future of my great company. I've got to get forward somehow. WG bikers are probably where it's at, but I don't own many of those.

More relevantly, Immolators and Repressors are very good for vehicle rushing.

I think by "rhino rush", he's talking about getting as many units up-board as quick as possible. The Rhino is great for that. You can get 2 5-man squads up there for the price it'd take the Razor to get one. And if you're going to be advancing/popping smoke, you're not going to be firing a heavy weapon too.

Razorbacks are much better added fire support than Rhinos, but much less effective at saturating the other side of the board with power armor.

The Rhino is great for this strategy, but are there any units that you can put in the Rhino to be worth it?

I can't decide if Rhinos or Drop-pods are a better than the other. I suspect that means both are viable but neither an automatic go-to option.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Best Rhino Rush:

Chaos Space Marine Rhino with a combi-plasma full of 10 zerkers. Move it up, move it up again with warptime (24" across the board now), overcharge the Combi-Plasma and fire both barrels, giving you about a 50% chance of self-immolating before CP re-rolls, self-destruct the rhino and force your zerks to disembark 3 more inches (27"!) and then charge in the Charge Phase.

That’s the most heinous abuse of a simplified rule set I’ve ever seen. It’s beautiful.

You’re abusing:

- simplified to-hit modifiers not clarifying a natural roll of a 1
- simplified Gets Hot mechanic that just slays the bearer regardless of size
- simplified transport rules that don’t address what happens if a unit is forced to disembark

If you ever tried that crap against me I might beat you with a sock Dreadnought, but in a tournament...

kombatwombat wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Best Rhino Rush:

Chaos Space Marine Rhino with a combi-plasma full of 10 zerkers. Move it up, move it up again with warptime (24" across the board now), overcharge the Combi-Plasma and fire both barrels, giving you about a 50% chance of self-immolating before CP re-rolls, self-destruct the rhino and force your zerks to disembark 3 more inches (27"!) and then charge in the Charge Phase.

That’s the most heinous abuse of a simplified rule set I’ve ever seen. It’s beautiful.

You’re abusing:

- simplified to-hit modifiers not clarifying a natural roll of a 1
- simplified Gets Hot mechanic that just slays the bearer regardless of size
- simplified transport rules that don’t address what happens if a unit is forced to disembark

If you ever tried that crap against me I might beat you with a sock Dreadnought, but in a tournament...

I like it. It's stupid and Khorne-y.

Notably, he's not stretching any rules, or abusing much of anything. At the very least, nothing is stemming from the fact that the rules are "simplified" and fail to cover circumstance, these exact circumstances seem covered fairly clearly.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
...self-destruct the rhino and force your zerks to disembark 3 more inches (27"!) and then charge in the Charge Phase.

Shades of the 5th edition DE raider torpedoes (go flat out to S10 ram vehicles from across the board, hoping to annihilate your own transport so that you could charge out of the crater)

You can't warptime a rhino as it's not infantry.

 koooaei wrote:
You can't warptime a rhino as it's not infantry.

And who said warptime was infantry only?

 Latro_ wrote:

or just run them as alpha legion and deep strike a jump pack sorcerer in with the warp time ... bit more reliable and safer

You cant warptime after deepstriking.

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on
the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance
further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,
charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in
and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge
and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it
can pile in and consolidate.
Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason
e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive
Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as
Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because
of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex:
Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

 p5freak wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

or just run them as alpha legion and deep strike a jump pack sorcerer in with the warp time ... bit more reliable and safer

You cant warptime after deepstriking.

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on
the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance
further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,
charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in
and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge
and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it
can pile in and consolidate.
Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason
e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive
Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as
Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because
of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex:
Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

He's saying warptime the Berzerkers not the sorcerer.

kombatwombat wrote:
If you ever tried that crap against me I might beat you with a sock Dreadnought, but in a tournament...

Is that a euphemism?

The_Real_Chris wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:
If you ever tried that crap against me I might beat you with a sock Dreadnought, but in a tournament...

Is that a euphemism?

An old metal dreadnought in a sock is effectively a flail.

mrhappyface wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
You can't warptime a rhino as it's not infantry.

And who said warptime was infantry only?

It doesn't really matter, without warptime the Rhino moves 12", then the Berzerkers bail out 3", giving a 9" charge.

Similar to a drop-pod, except you lose 1-in-6 guys and you can get shot on turn 1.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

It doesn't really matter, without warptime the Rhino moves 12", then the Berzerkers bail out 3", giving a 9" charge.

Similar to a drop-pod, except you lose 1-in-6 guys and you can get shot on turn 1.

9" charge is ok, a 1" charge is better (unless they have flamers and then you'll wish you didn't blow up your rhino).