Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can a primaris only army be competitive? I make exceptions for scouts filling out troop slots lol

No, you at least need non-primaris HQ choices. The primaris options are underwhelming. If you include generic HQs and scouts it can be moderately competitive played as either Ravenguard, Blood Angels, or Dark Angels.

Depends on Deathwatch pricing.

Possibly, maybe?

People are worried about the proliferation of damage 2 weapons with DE and Tau right now.

Let's look at the Heavy Burst Cannon.
12 shots S6 AP1 D2 / Nova to 18 shots

That results in 2 or 3 dead Primaris. A Riptide that is 250 points kills a few. A bit more if they feel like wasting marker lights on small units. I'd probably be glad for them to use it that way.

Conclusion:
Not really a huge issue



Next is the DE Disintegrator:
3 shots S5 AP3 D2

These come on their vehicles. One per on raiders, two on razorwings, and up to three on ravagers.

Raiders are T5 W10 4+/5++ (80-90 points)
Ravagers are T6 W10 4+/5++ (125 points)
Razorwing are T6 W10 4+/5++ -1 to hit (~135 points)

Looking at the London GT lists some take 4 to 8 (12 to 24 shots) and as much as 12 to 14 or more (36+ shots).

42 shots...kills 16 primaris. Yikes.

That took 775 points from their list. Primaris are going to be worth less than that - by how much depends, of course. And to be honest there isn't a lot left in that army that is super scary. Especially not any big guns for tanks, but they might be able to charge yours.

So the problematic part is operating without a few units and striking back properly. Helllblasters dying don't matter much, because these things only have one pip of save that you can remove. It would be nice if Primaris had a Rhino to stash in during the first turn...

One unit people should consider more are Stormhawk Interceptors. Will all the fliers with Tau and DE they seem like a no brainer. The Icarus Stormcannon and Skyhammer will hit on 2s, remove the most armor possible, and still do 2 damage.

Conclusion:
Maybe a problem. Plan on how to fight back efficiently.

in the window after Codex: space marines came out, but everybody else was using the index, maybe. Now? It's really tough.

The only primaris unit that really excels at it's job are hellblasters, aside from that you're basically playing with aspect warrior style space marines that pay a big premium for a defense mechanism (extra wounds and sometimes toughness) that is really simple for a lot of armies to ignore or work around.

A list built around two repulsors full of hellblasters, with a captain, lieutenant, a stormhaw, and three scout squads, could be an interesting skew list, but armies that can smoke a repulsor turn one will cut your army in half.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you gave me the time and money to build an army that feaures primaris that will be somewhat competitive, I'd try somethign like this:

Raven Guard Battalion:
Captain, jump pack, combi-plasma, power weapon
Captain, jump pack, combi-plasma, power weapon

3x Sniper Scouts

6x Aggressors
6x Aggressors

6x Inceptors with plasma
6x Inceptors with plasma
6x Inceptors with plasma


Infiltrate the aggressors, and move the inceptors forward turn one. try to force a refused flank, and pour bolters and plasma shots into the enemy. Enjoy some protection from long range shooting while putting pressure on the enemy from turn one. I'm not sure if it's a good list, but its' the best way I've thought of to make those units work.

Competitive at a fairly casual or open-meta local club? Absolutely. Competitive at this month's London GT? No so much.

Deathwatch might be able to do something about this, but it's going to be hard to beat the Ravenguard CT for sheer survivability.

So by all means collect and paint yourself a Primaris force. they're great models, and going forward, they'll feature heavily in GW's plans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although having said that, here's a Primaris list at London GT - hopefully it can make me eats my words!

Battalion Detachment, Ultramarines [1600 Points] + 5 CP
HQ1: Primaris Captain (87), Power Sword (4), Mastercrafted Auto Boltrifle (4) - RELIC - Sanctic Halo– [95pts]
HQ2: Primaris Librarian (93), Force Sword (8) - [101pts]
Troop1: 5x Intercessors (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Bolt Rifles (0), 1 x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (1)– [91pts]
Troop2: 5x Intercessors (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Bolt Rifles (0), 1 x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (1) – [91pts]
Troop3: 5x Intercessors (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Bolt Rifles (0) – [90pts]
Elite1: 3x Aggressors (63), Sergeant (0) 3x Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets (36), 3x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers (12) - [111pts]
Elite 2: Redemptor Dreadnought (140), Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon (36), Onslaught Gatling Cannon (16), 2 x Storm Bolters (4), Redemptor Fist (0) – [196pts]
HS1: 5x Hellblasters (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Plasma Incinerators (75) – [165pts]
DT1: Repulsor (210), Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon (36), Twin Lascannon (50), Onslaught Gatling Cannon (16), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launchers (8), 2x Storm Bolters (4), Auto Launchers (0) – [330pts]
DT2: Repulsor (210), Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon (36), Twin Lascannon (50), Onslaught Gatling Cannon (16), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launchers (8), 2x Storm Bolters (4), Auto Launchers (0) – [330pts]

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, Ultramarines [400 Points] + 0 CP (+3 CP - Author of the Codex)
LoW1: Roboute Guilliman - WARLORD - [400pts]

With the tidbits we're getting from Codex Deathwatch, it seems Primaris will be really good with them. Bolter Inceptors with AP-3 will be awesome!

Still, I think Raven Guard makes the best use of Aggressors (with the infiltrate stratagem) and Dark Angels with Hellblasters/Plasma Inceptors.

 grouchoben wrote:
Competitive at a fairly casual or open-meta local club? Absolutely. Competitive at this month's London GT? No so much.

Deathwatch might be able to do something about this, but it's going to be hard to beat the Ravenguard CT for sheer survivability.

So by all means collect and paint yourself a Primaris force. they're great models, and going forward, they'll feature heavily in GW's plans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although having said that, here's a Primaris list at London GT - hopefully it can make me eats my words!

Battalion Detachment, Ultramarines [1600 Points] + 5 CP
HQ1: Primaris Captain (87), Power Sword (4), Mastercrafted Auto Boltrifle (4) - RELIC - Sanctic Halo– [95pts]
HQ2: Primaris Librarian (93), Force Sword (8) - [101pts]
Troop1: 5x Intercessors (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Bolt Rifles (0), 1 x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (1)– [91pts]
Troop2: 5x Intercessors (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Bolt Rifles (0), 1 x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (1) – [91pts]
Troop3: 5x Intercessors (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Bolt Rifles (0) – [90pts]
Elite1: 3x Aggressors (63), Sergeant (0) 3x Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets (36), 3x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers (12) - [111pts]
Elite 2: Redemptor Dreadnought (140), Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon (36), Onslaught Gatling Cannon (16), 2 x Storm Bolters (4), Redemptor Fist (0) – [196pts]
HS1: 5x Hellblasters (90), Sergeant (0) 5x Plasma Incinerators (75) – [165pts]
DT1: Repulsor (210), Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon (36), Twin Lascannon (50), Onslaught Gatling Cannon (16), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launchers (8), 2x Storm Bolters (4), Auto Launchers (0) – [330pts]
DT2: Repulsor (210), Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon (36), Twin Lascannon (50), Onslaught Gatling Cannon (16), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launchers (8), 2x Storm Bolters (4), Auto Launchers (0) – [330pts]

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, Ultramarines [400 Points] + 0 CP (+3 CP - Author of the Codex)
LoW1: Roboute Guilliman - WARLORD - [400pts]

And UM, too! It's a pretty straightforward list. Repulsors will keep Primaris safe from DE/Tau turn 1.

He's going to have to hoof it if he faces shadowswords or the triple tesseract vault bs.

Not enough shots. No chance in hell.

Martel732 wrote:
Not enough shots. No chance in hell.

Yea, 4 LC and 5 Hellblasters. He'll need to spread out really wide and just hunker down. RG can maybe do 10 wounds to one in melee. He could kill/cripple one and that might be enough after the scarabs are dakka'd off.

I'd prefer Iron Hands for Primaris, really.