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So what do you do when you army is low tier and just not playavle/cometative at all?
I have run into a problem where the armies I have and actually care about are such hot garbage that they have gotten to the point where it's just not even worth Fielding or playing the game. Do you all just wait it out? Do you give in and just buy one of those competative armies/gimick that actually winds games even if you don't care about the armies?

I'm struggling to have any interest in the game anymore since it seems the only way I'll win is if I invest in armies don't care at all about.

Counts as.

Suck it up and keep playing. But us sisters playera have been long time masochists.

Do you only ever play pick up games or do you play with a regular group? If it's the latter then just agree that you get some kind of % additional points. Play a few games to fine tune what seems to be reasonable to make a more even game. Alternatively play some deliberately one sided narrative games or kill team or combat patrol or planetstrike or spearhead or some other custom variant of the game that you can enjoy as a challenge with your opponents rather than simply stand up knock down games.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So what do you do when you army is low tier and just not playavle/cometative at all?

You lose

Ask your buddies to play less competitive lists. An A+ on your army might only be a B- for theirs, find a middle ground for maximum fun.

But if they just say "git gud", they have every right to. Don't think they HAVE to change for you, just know that it's a possibility.

It really depends. If it's only you that's bottom tier, it's no fun to be a punching bag. But if it's you, and another army, you can play nerf darts together. At least in a competitive play environment.

But if I talk it over with folks that I play, and say 'hey, let's do some fun narrative stuff' then it can go over well, especially if we use the Narrative rules, and have a good time screwing around and all.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Ask your buddies to play less competitive lists. An A+ on your army might only be a B- for theirs, find a middle ground for maximum fun.

But if they just say "git gud", they have every right to. Don't think they HAVE to change for you, just know that it's a possibility.

Issues is im never going ask someone to play a toned down list, because i dont wanna ask for a handicap.

More or less do most people just wait it out? or do you just hop on the band wagon army. Its gotten to the point now where i dont even really wanna play the game anymore because nothing is an appealing army to me, and anything that is at this point is horrible, and or not going to want to be played against.

Like a bane blade list, or a knight list.

 Flinty wrote:
Do you only ever play pick up games or do you play with a regular group? If it's the latter then just agree that you get some kind of % additional points. Play a few games to fine tune what seems to be reasonable to make a more even game. Alternatively play some deliberately one sided narrative games or kill team or combat patrol or planetstrike or spearhead or some other custom variant of the game that you can enjoy as a challenge with your opponents rather than simply stand up knock down games.

This is what I would try to do. If my army was so weak that I didn't think it would have any sort of chance I suggest to my opponent coming up with ideas to make the game something where it could go either way or at least only slightly favor theirs. Pick up games are usually hard to alter points as reducing the points of the opponent could cripple their list too much, and you never can quite expect an opponent to agree to a set amount (or any) so any additions aren't going to be as effective. If it was a regular group I would ultimately suggest having a default system where every loss add additional points to a player's force and every win reduces by the same amount until back to the default. After a few games, the point totals should more or less balance themselves out.

Otherwise, I really like custom scenarios which can be done to give the weak army an advantage and/or weaken the strong army. Plus, I found it much easier to introduce house rules to many players if you just call them 'scenario rules'. Once I get a good understanding of a system, I usually prefer custom scenarios anyways where they can be tailored to highlight what each player's force does well and keep the game interesting (read: close) for as long as possible.

This topic right here is why i got out of tournament play. I got tired of having to play armies i didn't care about just so I could win games since my armies that I loved were all mid to low tier and playing powergamers 24/7 crushed me unless I was also running a powergamer army.

What do I do now? I play in campaigns and casual narratives.

 auticus wrote:
This topic right here is why i got out of tournament play. I got tired of having to play armies i didn't care about just so I could win games since my armies that I loved were all mid to low tier and playing powergamers 24/7 crushed me unless I was also running a powergamer army.

What do I do now? I play in campaigns and casual narratives.

This is kinda where i am at, problem is even in taht im boned, I play T sons, and ravenwing deathwing which i was not even playing before the beta rule, but with it, was just a final nail in the coffen so they set up on a shelf.

Im looking at knights hoping that codex creep is real and they cant stand up to them.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Ask your buddies to play less competitive lists. An A+ on your army might only be a B- for theirs, find a middle ground for maximum fun.

But if they just say "git gud", they have every right to. Don't think they HAVE to change for you, just know that it's a possibility.

Issues is im never going ask someone to play a toned down list, because i dont wanna ask for a handicap.

More or less do most people just wait it out? or do you just hop on the band wagon army. Its gotten to the point now where i dont even really wanna play the game anymore because nothing is an appealing army to me, and anything that is at this point is horrible, and or not going to want to be played against.

Like a bane blade list, or a knight list.

...What are you playing anyways? Because i've yet to see many factions that have NO way of winning. Unless you're playing something like imperial knights or death watch, there really shouldn't be much reason that by changing units in your army you couldn't at least increase your chances of winning. Some units are bad, but no army is devoid of good components, for the most part. If you aren't willing to tell them to tone it down, then tell yourself to look deeper into your own codex. The way you play doesn't win? Then change the way you play. Only a few codexes have "one way" to play, like Admech.

*edit* I completely missed the watermark you have. Salamanders as an army are...Fairly bad. Like, down there with Death Watch bad. I will admit you will actually find a hard time finding anything good to face your competition with.

I stopped playing 40k and swapped to better games.

Fekke getting this mess to work.

Honestly unless you are playing the add on niche armies like sisters of silence, deathwatch, harlequins etc. or you are an army without a codex such as orks, sisters. I’d even give you a pass with greyknights. Your army is playable and can win.

Right now you have Marine players crying thier army sucks, chaos players crying thier army sucks because of the faq and eldar players saying they were nerfed as well. Everyone is saying thier army is awful right now. You need to suck it up and play better or build a better list. Ffs most clubs have people playing the same army themes just freakin list tailor against the people you play against. You are obviously not trying to win a grand tournament here. I play orks and I still win. Sometimes it means you got to change your list up and make it stronger!

gungo wrote:
Honestly unless you are playing the add on niche armies like sisters of silence, deathwatch, harlequins etc. or you are an army without a codex such as orks, sisters. I’d even give you a pass with greyknights. Your army is playable and can win.

Right now you have Marine players crying thier army sucks, chaos players crying thier army sucks because of the faq and eldar players saying they were nerfed as well. Everyone is saying thier army is awful right now. You need to suck it up and play better or build a better list. Ffs most clubs have people playing the same army themes just freakin list tailor against the people you play against. You are obviously not trying to win a grand tournament here. I play orks and I still win. Sometimes it means you got to change your list up and make it stronger!

Tsons, so i guess niche?

 Backspacehacker wrote:

gungo wrote:
Honestly unless you are playing the add on niche armies like sisters of silence, deathwatch, harlequins etc. or you are an army without a codex such as orks, sisters. I’d even give you a pass with greyknights. Your army is playable and can win.

Right now you have Marine players crying thier army sucks, chaos players crying thier army sucks because of the faq and eldar players saying they were nerfed as well. Everyone is saying thier army is awful right now. You need to suck it up and play better or build a better list. Ffs most clubs have people playing the same army themes just freakin list tailor against the people you play against. You are obviously not trying to win a grand tournament here. I play orks and I still win. Sometimes it means you got to change your list up and make it stronger!

Tsons, so i guess niche?

Tsons is literally holding up Chaos in the meta atm look up the London GT army lists.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

gungo wrote:
Honestly unless you are playing the add on niche armies like sisters of silence, deathwatch, harlequins etc. or you are an army without a codex such as orks, sisters. I’d even give you a pass with greyknights. Your army is playable and can win.

Right now you have Marine players crying thier army sucks, chaos players crying thier army sucks because of the faq and eldar players saying they were nerfed as well. Everyone is saying thier army is awful right now. You need to suck it up and play better or build a better list. Ffs most clubs have people playing the same army themes just freakin list tailor against the people you play against. You are obviously not trying to win a grand tournament here. I play orks and I still win. Sometimes it means you got to change your list up and make it stronger!

Tsons, so i guess niche?

Tsons is literally holding up Chaos in the meta atm look up the London GT army lists.

IIRC those lists are not longer viable they were using "CHAOS" as a tag to create the army, but FAQ Changed that.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

gungo wrote:
Honestly unless you are playing the add on niche armies like sisters of silence, deathwatch, harlequins etc. or you are an army without a codex such as orks, sisters. I’d even give you a pass with greyknights. Your army is playable and can win.

Right now you have Marine players crying thier army sucks, chaos players crying thier army sucks because of the faq and eldar players saying they were nerfed as well. Everyone is saying thier army is awful right now. You need to suck it up and play better or build a better list. Ffs most clubs have people playing the same army themes just freakin list tailor against the people you play against. You are obviously not trying to win a grand tournament here. I play orks and I still win. Sometimes it means you got to change your list up and make it stronger!

Tsons, so i guess niche?

Tsons is literally holding up Chaos in the meta atm look up the London GT army lists.

IIRC those lists are not longer viable they were using "CHAOS" as a tag to create the army, but FAQ Changed that.

What on earth are you talking about? Re-read the rule. That stuff is only for detachments. You can have a detachment of T-sons, a Detachment of DG and it's all fine. What you CAN'T have anymore, is a unit with Rubric Marines in the same detachment as Plague Marines, just because they share chaos.

This was changed because Imperium was doing some pretty dumb crap with IG units.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

gungo wrote:
Honestly unless you are playing the add on niche armies like sisters of silence, deathwatch, harlequins etc. or you are an army without a codex such as orks, sisters. I’d even give you a pass with greyknights. Your army is playable and can win.

Right now you have Marine players crying thier army sucks, chaos players crying thier army sucks because of the faq and eldar players saying they were nerfed as well. Everyone is saying thier army is awful right now. You need to suck it up and play better or build a better list. Ffs most clubs have people playing the same army themes just freakin list tailor against the people you play against. You are obviously not trying to win a grand tournament here. I play orks and I still win. Sometimes it means you got to change your list up and make it stronger!

Tsons, so i guess niche?

Tsons is literally holding up Chaos in the meta atm look up the London GT army lists.

IIRC those lists are not longer viable they were using "CHAOS" as a tag to create the army, but FAQ Changed that.

What on earth are you talking about? Re-read the rule. That stuff is only for detachments. You can have a detachment of T-sons, a Detachment of DG and it's all fine. What you CAN'T have anymore, is a unit with Rubric Marines in the same detachment as Plague Marines, just because they share chaos.

This was changed because Imperium was doing some pretty dumb crap with IG units.

thats what i mean, the lists im finding, maybe its the wrong ones. Are doing stuff like HQ "Ahriman" "Renegade commander" troops "Brim stone"

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/756135.page

Peep this.

 vaklor4 wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/756135.page

Peep this.

Ok see im looking at blood of kittens which has zero results for T sons and 2 wins for Dark angels.

http://bloodofkittens.com/8th-edition-top-army-list-compendium/

Your first mistake is trusting Bloodofkittens plebians, when us Dakkadakka are the MASTER RACE of snarky Warhammer players.

Maybe this will help

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/05/05/thousand-sons-tactica-magnus-and-the-rehati-war-sect-8th-edition-post-faq/

Well, I play WE. Which in my area has been fine in friendly games, but mediocre in competitive. I get almost victories frequently. I've played upwards of 30 games of 8th and I've only won 4. But I'm of a mind that winning isn't everything. It's a game, we play to have fun.

Heck, even in tournaments I don't expect to win. I play for the experience. With the exception of this year's Gencon. I'm doing lots of testing for that event, because I want to do well.

I play in a very relaxing meta so we never have problems with weak factions or powerfull factions.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Maybe this will help

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/05/05/thousand-sons-tactica-magnus-and-the-rehati-war-sect-8th-edition-post-faq/

Well this looks pretty interesting

I’m fairly sure Tzeentch is a faction keyword so Ahriman + brims would be legal. Ravenwing can be reasonably good as well. Seems to me like you are either tied to your particular build, or not understanding the rules very well.

Grit my teeth and force my army to work, I have been a deathwing player since 3rd and we have NEVER been even remotely top tier, but I’ve persevered for a looooong time and can pull wins against top tier armies and players due to knowing my army inside and out... then 8th dropped and I’ve been hard pressed to even compete with the sheer amount of alpha strike insanity this ed has brought, and the final nail in the coffin was the new trial rules in the FAQ, that rule of 3 and deep strike restriction REALLY hurts my deathwing.

But I will persevere and continue to force my army to work, because I like hard games, and deathwing has always been 40k On hard mode.

We had this problem in my gaming group. Friend of mine loves Grey Knights but just kept losing no matter which of my armies Id throw at him. Eldar, IG (scions only), Custodes etc.

We had fun in our games but they weren't even close, and you could tell he was a bit out of it.

So I built a list to play his. Its an all primaris Iron Hands army featuring 2 Redemptors and a Leviathan. Its a pretty mediocre list but damn we had an absolute blast in our first game vs his GK. It came down to the wire and he won on the last turn.

However we are purely garage hammer players who find 8th perfect for what we do. We got out of the "meta" crap a long time ago and honestly enjoy the game ten times more. Play how you want but list tailoring down to an armies level has made for some amazing games.

I started playing when Tau were released and kept getting my butt handed to me. After a while I realized that it wasn't that I was a bad player but that 3rd ed was heavily geared to CC and the Tau were very limited in versatility beyond Crisis Suits, so I decided to look for a different army.

I decided to go for Chaos as this was 3.0 so no one actually played them around me. They weren't top tier but I could actually pull off wins against a good player who was paying attention, something that was nearly impossible for Tau. Chaos grew on me and I still consider them my primary faction even though I still fight for the underdog Tau.

Since you're aren't seeing anything catching your eye as another faction, I'd say consider playing something no one really plays in your area. I was happy with the results.