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Poll
whats best
razerback
predator
landrader (any)
hellblasters
devastators
repulser tank
sternguard
stormraven
stormtalon
tack squads
vindicater
plasma incepters
Venerable Dreadnought
contempter Dreadnought
redempter Dreadnought
forgeworld flyers
forgeworld tanks
allied imperial detachment
forgeworld Dreadnought

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Made in us
Adolescent Youth on Ultramar





basically the title: whats most point efficient in 8th ed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 02:34:53


 
   
Made in hk
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




Who votes for the Tactical Squad? Do you mean Salamander Tactical Squad carrying a single Lascannon?
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





With the faq-buff, dev squads can mess heavies up with some lovely mortal wound alpha strike. 3d3 mortal wounds for 2 CPs is a bargain.
   
Made in us
Unteroffizier




What did the FAQ change?
   
Made in fi
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Cherub, 2x hellfire/flakk..
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Yeah, you have both a HB & ML in your team, to access both stratagems, the HB strat has +1 to hit baked in, and the Sarg gives his +1 to the ML. Your captain gives rerolls, and you really should be hitting 3 times for 3d3 mortal wounds.

My Dev squad is back to being the first target for my opponents who have played against them in their new form before.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




I would add the Hunter to the poll.

Lascannon with inbuilt reroll, +1 to hit against flyers and incredibly durable for only 90 points.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





What's the optimum loadout for straight anti tank Devastators?
4 x Lascannon, plus sarge with bolter and a couple of basic marines to soak up wounds?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




A sicaran venerator has a nice bonus of handing out a -1 to hit should your target survive or if you have multiple LOW to fight.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I voted ven dread b/c I'm not sure what else to say.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

When it comes to anti-tank and Dark Angels, anything with plasma is good thanks to Weapons from the Dark Age. Inceptors might be the most points-efficient choice for it.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 6/7/18, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~11200 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1100 | Space Wolves: ~2000
Inquisition: ~300 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~800 | Talons of the Emperor: ~500
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Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 105 | Current main painting project: Death Guard Poxwalkers
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




No mention of the Stalker?

   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine





Baltimore, MD

 grouchoben wrote:
Yeah, you have both a HB & ML in your team, to access both stratagems, the HB strat has +1 to hit baked in, and the Sarg gives his +1 to the ML. Your captain gives rerolls, and you really should be hitting 3 times for 3d3 mortal wounds.


Were the +1s to hit FAQed or something? According to my codex there's no bonus on the heavy bolter strat, and a +1 on the missile strat but you can only target models with fly. They're both still very good (especially with the cherub change), but the missile launcher strat is a bit situational. If you're targeting something with fly though, then you definitely should be landing at least 2 if not 3d3 mortal wounds.

2500 pts Raven Guard, painted 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




flashlightfodder wrote:

basically the title: whats most point efficient in 8th ed


Out of curiosity, are we talking overall efficiency or just damage efficiency?
Overall, the Forge World Dreadnoughts win out.
Only damage, probably Devastators.
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





The Eternity Gate

Sicaran venator. Nuff said.

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 buddha wrote:
Sicaran venator. Nuff said.


Also a very good shout. Highly underrated unit, Chapter Approved was a godsend for the Sicaran variants.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Caederes wrote:
flashlightfodder wrote:

basically the title: whats most point efficient in 8th ed


Out of curiosity, are we talking overall efficiency or just damage efficiency?
Overall, the Forge World Dreadnoughts win out.
Only damage, probably Devastators.


Exactly, straight damage efficiency is easy, figure out the lowest cost model you can mount your lascannon (or other) gun onto. Don't think you can beat 70pts overhead for 5 Devastators+cherub to give 4 lascannons to in the SM book, especially when even the overhead models get you a BS2 shot and 1 extra shot per game. But yeah, overall efficiency is the real question.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Naga





Huntsville, Texas

I also saw on Forgeworld the Rapier Laser Vindicator... That things rules look pretty stout.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Arkansas (Not Canada)

Relic Contemptors with quad Lascannons get my vote. Hit's on 2s, tough platform, can get reroll 1s with a CP, potentially saving your CP for wound rerolls if you're not near buff characters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 17:54:43


7500+
4000+
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Perth wrote:
Relic Contemptors with quad Lascannons get my vote. Hit's on 2s, tough platform, can get reroll 1s with a CP, potentially saving your CP for wound rerolls if you're not near buff characters.

Except why wouldn't a camping Dread be near a buff character? If they were killed you're probably losing at that point.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





 Porphyrius wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
Yeah, you have both a HB & ML in your team, to access both stratagems, the HB strat has +1 to hit baked in, and the Sarg gives his +1 to the ML. Your captain gives rerolls, and you really should be hitting 3 times for 3d3 mortal wounds.


Were the +1s to hit FAQed or something? According to my codex there's no bonus on the heavy bolter strat, and a +1 on the missile strat but you can only target models with fly. They're both still very good (especially with the cherub change), but the missile launcher strat is a bit situational. If you're targeting something with fly though, then you definitely should be landing at least 2 if not 3d3 mortal wounds.


Apologies Porphyrius, my mistake, I got the rules mixed up. You're ideally shooting at a flyer to score the double 2+.
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine





Baltimore, MD

No worries! Just thought I may have missed something. Besides, a lot of the scariest stuff has fly anyway, so the Flakk Missile isn't too much of a limitation.

2500 pts Raven Guard, painted 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






I'd go with minimized tactical squads over devastators personally. Devastators make too juicy of a target, while 4-5 squads of Marines, each carrying a lascannon is much harder to limit/kill.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






It's obviously the storm raven - 6 multi damage guns plus 24 bolter shots for the chaff - on the most durable platform available in the codex.

Outside the codex it's obviously the relic leviathan.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Adolescent Youth on Ultramar




Caederes wrote:
flashlightfodder wrote:

basically the title: whats most point efficient in 8th ed


Out of curiosity, are we talking overall efficiency or just damage efficiency?
Overall, the Forge World Dreadnoughts win out.
Only damage, probably Devastators.


overall
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Overall then forgeworld dreadnaughts as they have the massive benifit of chapter tactics be that RG -1 or Ultramarine Fallback and shoot. No marine vehicals can compare, they need screening and a charge deterrent CC charictor around to heroically intervene.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



Indianapolis

Xiphon Interceptor ... discussion complete


Imagine if they ever “fix” Marine Chapter tactics and apply them to vehicles LIKE EVERY OTHER CODEX. That would make. RG Xiphon -2 to hit

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 19:24:22


 
   
Made in kr
Fresh-Faced New User




First, let me say that I love vehicle models and I love the idea of big scary armored tanks chewing through the battle field. If we take mathhammer out of the equation completely and take a look at other factors than unfortunately, I think that devastator squads beat out most of the armor that Space Marines can get for the following reasons.

1) Devastators can get into cover easier than big armor for that juicy 2+ cover save.

Let`s face it, a 3+ save just isn`t what it used to be and anything that can give you an edge on your save should be grabbed. Devastators, having a smaller footprint, can get into places that wouldn`t help armour at all.

2) Devastators have access to a lot more stratagems that affect them.

If we look at pure space marine stratagems than vehicles have 3 stratagems that can be used Linebreaker Bombardment (Vindicators), Killshot (preds ) and Armour of Contempt (all vehicles.). Only two of the three stratagems can be applied to the vehicles though. Preds cannot use Linebreaker and Vindicators cannot use Kill shot while flyers only have one they can use with Armor of Contempt.

Devastators also have three that can be used with Hellfire Shells, Flakk Missile (Missile Launcher Devs) and Auspex Scan. This however does not take into account of all the Chapter Specific stratagems that can be used on them such as Scions of Guilliman and Strike from the Shadows. I am not going to take into account the stratagems that affect non anti-tank weapons, such as the Imperial Fists Bolter Drill on Heavy Bolters or close combat stratagems like Honour the Chapter. If your anti-tank devs are in close combat or wielding heavy bolters they deserve to die.

3) As infantry units Devs can climb up onto upper floors and get objectives that your opponent might have placed there.

If all objectives are placed with some placed on upper floors, your opponent can choose the opposite side knowing that your tanks can`t secure those upper floor objectives forcing you to leave portions of other units to hang out in the back field instead of working their way up the board. This is not as big a problem with a gunline army but if your running a parking lot or lots of deep striking units it could be an issue.

4) Devs have access to a lot more synergy than vehicles do.

While the Techmarine is the cheapest HQ we have and can add D3 wounds back a turn only infantry models can be affected by the apothecary or any battle standards. Of course, many characters can affect both vehicles and infantry but some chapter specific characters such as DA`s Azrael only affect Infantry.

I have tried to keep things pretty simple here and I know that vehicles have their bright spots over infantry such as with toughness and bullet magnets but dev squads seem to come out on top. For myself it comes down to versatility and how you can milk the most out of a single unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 13:09:27


 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Tampa, FL

For me, it is a hard choice between Devastators and Hellblasters. I run RG, or else it is Devs all the way. I voted Devs for this reason. Hellblasters do insane damage, and with several options for making them better, they are in a good spot. The only issue is hit modifiers, but that is mostly fixed with a Chapter Master buffing them, or using a Rhino Primaris.

The problem I have is that most of the Space Marine armor is so sub-par that to bring any just lets the enemy get maximum efficiency out of the guns they brought. I prefer making them choose to shoot infantry with anti-tank weapons. I have heard a lot of people are dropping Lascannons for Autocannons now though, so maybe some of them can still be useful. Dreads beat out all the other tank options, and for me, fall just behind Hellblasters and Devs.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




I'm considering a pair of lascannon Mortis Dreads..
   
 
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