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Hello and good afternoon everyone, not played 40k in sometime, have a game tomorrow at 1750 level using the beta rules.

Just looking for any feedback on the list below, I think it has the basis for a nice competitive list at the 1750 level but again not played in a fair while and have not played using the beta rules as of yet either.

Cheers


+++ Magnus 1750 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [93 PL, 1748pts] +++

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ Lord of War +

Magnus the Red

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch: Warlord

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Malefic talon, Wings

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 18x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Predator: Twin lascannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Chaos Predator: Twin lascannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought: Butcher cannon array, 2x Hellflamer
. Hellforged siege claw: Meltagun

No feedback at all?

Would really appreciate any, unless its solid and not much to say

What powers will everyone have?

Autocannons on Preds are statistically better than las, so swap those out.

What relic will the DP have? Helm or Crystal?
Warptime with the Crystal guarantees a T1 charge in the enemy backfield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how did the game go?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
What powers will everyone have?

Autocannons on Preds are statistically better than las, so swap those out.

What relic will the DP have? Helm or Crystal?
Warptime with the Crystal guarantees a T1 charge in the enemy backfield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how did the game go?

You cannot warptime after using Dark Matter Crystal.

Yes you can. The bearer of the Crystal was not in reserve, so it works.

you can fit all of that at 1750?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Yes you can. The bearer of the Crystal was not in reserve, so it works.

I guarantee you cannot, I directly asked this question on GWs facebook page and they confirmed that you cannot. You can still use the DMC on turn 1 on anything because they were set up on the table originally but nothing moved with DMC can be warptimed afterward.

joe93187 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Yes you can. The bearer of the Crystal was not in reserve, so it works.

I guarantee you cannot, I directly asked this question on GWs facebook page and they confirmed that you cannot. You can still use the DMC on turn 1 on anything because they were set up on the table originally but nothing moved with DMC can be warptimed afterward.

Dark Matter Crystal wrote:
Once per battle, at the end of your Movement phase, you can
select the bearer or a friendly THOUSAND SONS INFANTRY
unit within 12" of him. Remove that unit from the battlefield and
immediately set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than
9" from any enemy models. This does not count as Falling Back if
the unit was within 1" of any enemy models.

Now look at p5 of the BRB FAQ.

FAQ 1.2 wrote:
The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on
the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance
further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,
charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in
and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge
and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it
can pile in and consolidate.
Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason
e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive
Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as
Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because
of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex:
Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

So the question is: Is the Crystal removal/set up considered "reinforcements"?
Let me ask you this: Is a unit disembarking from a vehicle considered reinforcements? Why or why not?

I would say no to all these answers. For the Crystal, bc the unit was on the board at the start of the turn. For the disembarking, bc the Transport rule specifically states that the unit may move further, although this is a direct contradiction of the Reinforcement rules in a strict reading.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

joe93187 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Yes you can. The bearer of the Crystal was not in reserve, so it works.

I guarantee you cannot, I directly asked this question on GWs facebook page and they confirmed that you cannot. You can still use the DMC on turn 1 on anything because they were set up on the table originally but nothing moved with DMC can be warptimed afterward.

Dark Matter Crystal wrote:
Once per battle, at the end of your Movement phase, you can
select the bearer or a friendly THOUSAND SONS INFANTRY
unit within 12" of him. Remove that unit from the battlefield and
immediately set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than
9" from any enemy models. This does not count as Falling Back if
the unit was within 1" of any enemy models.

Now look at p5 of the BRB FAQ.

FAQ 1.2 wrote:
The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on
the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance
further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,
charge, etc.).
Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in
and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge
and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it
can pile in and consolidate.
Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason
e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive
Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as
Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because
of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex:
Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

So the question is: Is the Crystal removal/set up considered "reinforcements"?
Let me ask you this: Is a unit disembarking from a vehicle considered reinforcements? Why or why not?

I would say no to all these answers. For the Crystal, bc the unit was on the board at the start of the turn. For the disembarking, bc the Transport rule specifically states that the unit may move further, although this is a direct contradiction of the Reinforcement rules in a strict reading.

Anytime you remove a unit and set it up elsewhere on the battlefield it technically counts as reinforcements, thus you cannot use warptime on a unit moved with DMC. I'm honestly not up for debating the rules with you...google it, you'll find multiple people who have asked GW and gotten the same answer I've told you. Ask a TO if you want... but honestly if you're moving something with DMC and then using warptime on it, you're doing it wrong and basically cheating.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here, I even scrolled back and found my question on the Warhammer 40k Facebook page. https://imgur.com/a/7l1PZb1

Anytime you remove a unit and set it up elsewhere on the battlefield it technically counts as reinforcements

where did you read this, under reinforcements is clearly stated what count for it

Joe, please explain why Da Jump, Gate of Infinity, and GKI Teleport Shunt do not count as reinforcements.

My explanation, and the explanation of the GW rules team, is that they started the game on the board.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Joe, please explain why Da Jump, Gate of Infinity, and GKI Teleport Shunt do not count as reinforcements.

My explanation, and the explanation of the GW rules team, is that they started the game on the board.

They still count as arriving from reinforcements technically because you're actually picking up the models and moving them to another place on the board. Disembarking doesn't because you're not, they're technically in the vehicle. You can still use things like DMC like Da Jump on Turn on 1 because the unit started on the board, but you still CANNOT use warptime on a unit that moved that way, which is what we were arguing.

They still count as arriving from reinforcements technically because you're actually picking up the models and moving them to another place on the board

absolutely not. reinforcemenet AREN'T deployed on the table .100% sure they will fix this with a faq soon, and yes you will be able to warptime after using dmc

joe93187 wrote:
Disembarking doesn't because you're not, they're technically in the vehicle. You can still use things like DMC like Da Jump on Turn on 1 because the unit started on the board, but you still CANNOT use warptime on a unit that moved that way, which is what we were arguing.

How are models that are literally not on the table (because the rules instruct you to remove models deom the table when embarkig), still “technically” on the table?
Hat, both technically and literally, makes no sense

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

joe93187 wrote:
Disembarking doesn't because you're not, they're technically in the vehicle. You can still use things like DMC like Da Jump on Turn on 1 because the unit started on the board, but you still CANNOT use warptime on a unit that moved that way, which is what we were arguing.

How are models that are literally not on the table (because the rules instruct you to remove models deom the table when embarkig), still “technically” on the table?
Hat, both technically and literally, makes no sense

Being in a vehicle has its own rule.. "Embarked"... What are we even arguing anymore? All I wanted to make clear was that you simply cannot warptime after using DMC.. Pretty sure I proved that with the imgur of me asking GW directly. Done with entire thread otherwise.

i bet anything you want Gw will tell you can use dmc and warptime.

 blackmage wrote:
i bet anything you want Gw will tell you can use dmc and warptime.

I quite literally posted an imgur of them telling me that you can't from the Facebook page.... But you're welcome to Email them and ask.

https://imgur.com/a/7l1PZb1

i saw the pic... i bet anyway in next FAQ/errata that will be fixed and you will warptime after dmc.

 blackmage wrote:
i saw the pic... i bet anyway in next FAQ/errata that will be fixed and you will warptime after dmc.

I bet you are wrong. Alpha Striking was becoming a pretty big issue and I think GW is happy with the change they've made to it.

im happy too with alpha strike nerf, just i dont think they wont let proprerly use a single use device targeting a unit already on the table, btw we will see , if they want then really nerf alpha strike they shouldn't allow things like multiple forward operative stratagems (with basically 11-12 cp chaos lists you can easily throw 120 cultists turn one into enemy lines or 30 berserker i dont think is so funny...) or other stratagems/powers like that, my humble opinion.

 blackmage wrote:
im happy too with alpha strike nerf, just i dont think they wont let proprerly use a single use device targeting a unit already on the table, btw we will see , if they want then really nerf alpha strike they shouldn't allow things like multiple forward operative stratagems (with basically 11-12 cp chaos lists you can easily throw 120 cultists turn one into enemy lines or 30 berserker i dont think is so funny...) or other stratagems/powers like that, my humble opinion.

I honestly don't think doing that is a competitive thing, it's too large of a risk. If you don't go first you're basically wasting all of that CP. Least I haven't personally heard of any competitive players doing it lately.

Shinzra wrote:
Hello and good afternoon everyone, not played 40k in sometime, have a game tomorrow at 1750 level using the beta rules.

Just looking for any feedback on the list below, I think it has the basis for a nice competitive list at the 1750 level but again not played in a fair while and have not played using the beta rules as of yet either.

Cheers


+++ Magnus 1750 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [93 PL, 1748pts] +++

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ Lord of War +

Magnus the Red

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch: Warlord

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Malefic talon, Wings

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 18x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists: 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Predator: Twin lascannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Chaos Predator: Twin lascannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought: Butcher cannon array, 2x Hellflamer
. Hellforged siege claw: Meltagun

I will soon start a 1k sons army and i am intressting on the concept.
So hear is some comments i have thought of:
*take another pred for killshot
*if you take another cheap hq you can create a spearhead dete and have another +1 cp
*Is cultist for screens, object grabing purpose and cheap troop choice? Never played them so dunno what to do with them. I would play three rub marines for the fluff consern
*Rember with the spells that you can only cast one kind of spell per turn. So mix the spells is a good choice

Due to the FAQ, all units that leave the table for any reason, and then re-deploy, count as having arrived from reserve.

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons? A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

From page 6 of the rulebook FAQ document.

This has been clarified extensively on various platforms by GW, due to the original confusion around them interacting with the new turn 1 deployment rules, as prior to their facebook clarification, this faq section would have meant that you couldn’t use powers etc to “jump” outside of your deployment zone turn 1.

Further more to this, the section on page 5, rules that you then wouldn’t be able to warptime after using DMC.

The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.)

Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.

It sucks, but it is perfectly reasonable.

I don’t expect this to change at all in any upcoming faq. If anything, I hope it just gets clarified properly, as opposed to the usual GW multi platform, always contradictory, way of doing things.

Nice list mate. Nothing I would change.


Why do threads always devolve into arguments over rules? He's asking for feedback!

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:
Nice list mate. Nothing I would change.


Why do threads always devolve into arguments over rules? He's asking for feedback!

Because people are giving him feedback based on using incorrect rules.

I'll just link to YMDC instead

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/758331.page

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I'll just link to YMDC instead

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/758331.page

I don't care what anyone on that forum post says... GW said you can't...Thus you can't. You're welcome to play however you want and if your opponent is fine with it, go for it. But just know that if you Warptime something moved by DMC, you are effectively cheating.