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Hello all,

I am looking for advice from the veteran members of the community. I'm getting back into the hobby since a brief stint when I was a kid during 3rd edition. At the time, I had a Dark Eldar army (starter set army). I wasn't crazy about them at the time, but I really like the new(ish) models and the lore. Long story short I'd like to start collecting again and I'm a bit stuck. I think I got it down to two armies that are very appealing to me: Black Templars and Dark Eldar (Drukhari). I've got pros and cons to each but I'm not sure how to weight them. I didn't list the lore and look of the models because both are essentially equal to me.

Black Templars
Pros:
Easier to paint and assemble
Simpler tactics
Unique chapter (I like to be unique)
I like other Imperium armies and can expand in the future.
Really cool characters

Cons:
No dedicated codex
Accessory kits needed
Low model variety
Space Marines (Everybody else has Space Marines)
Not particularly strong in current edition

Dark Eldar (Drukhari)
Pros:
Diverse models (Kabals, Covens, Cults)
Uncommon army
Dedicated Codex
Can be competitive in current edition
Have some models from the old range to help with starting an army

Cons:
More difficult to paint and assemble
More sophisticated tactics
Lackluster special characters
I don't really like other Aeldari units so I'd be limited to just Drukhari

Based off my opinions, does anybody have a recommendation one way or another? I flip flop by the day on which I'd prefer to collect and was curious what more experienced players would recommend. Any advice would be much appreciated.

I would say Dark Eldar.

They just got a new codex that launched them up firmly into top tier, they don't need much more in the way of models. Mostly just finecast has to be replaced and special characters added.

Black Templars while thematically amazing (they are an army that I used to play) are bottom barrel when it comes to competitiveness. Add in the fact that "old marines" will never receive new models now that Primaris is out. They *might* do a separate Black Templars codex with new primaris stuff, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Their style of play just simply doesn't really work in the modern 40K game.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I would say Dark Eldar.

They just got a new codex that launched them up firmly into top tier, they don't need much more in the way of models. Mostly just finecast has to be replaced and special characters added.

Black Templars while thematically amazing (they are an army that I used to play) are bottom barrel when it comes to competitiveness. Add in the fact that "old marines" will never receive new models now that Primaris is out. They *might* do a separate Black Templars codex with new primaris stuff, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Their style of play just simply doesn't really work in the modern 40K game.

Thanks for the advice. I don't know how I feel about Primaris Marines yet. If I were to go Templars I think they would be a later addition. Do you think there is something to be said for the degree of difficulty painting Dark Eldar? I'm a fairly novice painter. I can get results that I think look good, however I am super slow. The small models with all those glorious spikey details certainly look time consuming. I don't plan on playing super competitively, but I would certainly prefer to have an army that gives me a chance.

Templars are not bottom of the barrel, they are in the same state as any other basic space marines (except maybe raven guard, with that cheesy - 1 to hit). Sure dark eldar is pure easier to play since their units are so cheap. But you'll have more unit and wargear options for templars. So you can make their style of play whatever you want it to be. That said dark eldar do have a good selection of units aswell.

And saying that only primaris marines is worth it for the future is pure speculation. Don't have them in your army if you don't like them.

Does anybody know why the Emperor's Champion model or the Sword Brethren kit are not shown in the Space Marine category? You have to search their names to find them in the store. Also the Sword Brethren squad is listed as temporarily out of stock. I wonder if they are updating the kits from the resin crap...

they are in the same state as any other basic space marines (except maybe raven guard, with that cheesy - 1 to hit)

exactly...so bottom of the barrel. Lets be honest, Black Templars are an assault army in a codex that doesn't do assault well. If you aren't going to play the army the way they were intended to be played, why even bother at all? Pick a different chapter.

All I'm saying is that Space Marines don't compete very well at top tables, in casual games and events they will be fine.

And saying that only primaris marines is worth it for the future is pure speculation. Don't have them in your army if you don't like them.

I would say more educated guess than speculation. Its not a matter of liking them or not, its just that Primaris are the future of Space Marines, and currently purchasing anything that isn't primaris is buying up a soon to be unsupported model line. It won't be for many years, but it will happen.

You can argue all you want, but I would bet my bottom dollar that we will never see another squat marine kit ever again (outside of 30K). And if somehow that proves to be untrue, you can quote me, create a new thread telling the world that I was wrong, and I will admit that I was incorrect.

Does anybody know why the Emperor's Champion model or the Sword Brethren kit are not shown in the Space Marine category? You have to search their names to find them in the store. Also the Sword Brethren squad is listed as temporarily out of stock. I wonder if they are updating the kits from the resin crap...

They probably just ran out of stock and are waiting for a re-stock. I doubt very highly that they would have done new moulds. Sometimes the website glitches and doesn't show all the options available. I've had that happen to me too.

Do you think there is something to be said for the degree of difficulty painting Dark Eldar? I'm a fairly novice painter. I can get results that I think look good, however I am super slow. The small models with all those glorious spikey details certainly look time consuming.

I don't find Dark Eldar to be particularly hard to paint. They work well in Dark colours which are much more forgiving than bright ones. To me, the hardest, most time consuming part of painting Dark Eldar is the flesh. The armour is easy.

I really wish GW would release more books for the various chapters. Maybe not full fledged codices, but perhaps supplements to the existing codex that flush out the different chapters/legions a little more. Everything about the Black Templars indicates they should not be lumped in with the other chapters from a rules perspective. It would be cool to get a Dorn book that spotlights Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, and Templars. Then they could really make each one more unique.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

And saying that only primaris marines is worth it for the future is pure speculation. Don't have them in your army if you don't like them.

I would say more educated guess than speculation. Its not a matter of liking them or not, its just that Primaris are the future of Space Marines, and currently purchasing anything that isn't primaris is buying up a soon to be unsupported model line. It won't be for many years, but it will happen.

You can argue all you want, but I would bet my bottom dollar that we will never see another squat marine kit ever again (outside of 30K). And if somehow that proves to be untrue, you can quote me, create a new thread telling the world that I was wrong, and I will admit that I was incorrect.

Agreed.

I'd be disinclined to start a new Space Marine army at all until we come out the other side of this scale shift.

Probably an edition or two yet.

OP, the best piece of advice I can give you is to ignore anybody on here saying you should do this and that and not do this and that because this is stronger than that.

In terms of competitive strength, the game is in such a constant tate of flux that if you say ‘I’m going to start Dark Eldar because they’re strong’, by the time you’ve built and painted them the damned things won’t be strong anymore. You’re far, far better off starting an army you love the theme, lore and aesthetics of; it’s the love of the faction that gets you through the hours of painting, not their competitive strengths, and that paint scheme doesn’t suddenly vanish out from under you with the release of Chapter Approved like competitive strength does. Collect what you enjoy, exult when it’s at the top of the table, lament when it’s at the bottom, and the rest of the time just enjoy playing.

Gitdakka wrote:
Templars are not bottom of the barrel, they are in the same state as any other basic space marines (except maybe raven guard, with that cheesy - 1 to hit)..

Which is to say, not quite bottom of the barrel because Grey Knights have dug a bunker there and aren’t shifting. But Templars are worse off than the rest of the Codex because they’re an assault army shoehorned awkwardly into a shooting Codex.

kombatwombat wrote:
OP, the best piece of advice I can give you is to ignore anybody on here saying you should do this and that and not do this and that because this is stronger than that.

In terms of competitive strength, the game is in such a constant tate of flux that if you say ‘I’m going to start Dark Eldar because they’re strong’, by the time you’ve built and painted them the damned things won’t be strong anymore.

This!

That said, I've done damn well out of the change in strength of relative armies. Started collecting Khorne CSMs back at the start of 6th, and got soundly thrashed by mate with whatever army he threw at me. Late in 7th edition I decided to branch out into Dark Eldar - pretty much just because I loved the models and the lore...

And now?

I always advise that if you're looking to build a new army, ignore competitiveness. Choose an army based off of the lore and models that appeal to you the most.

Black Templars are cool as hell. That counts for something in my book.

Curiously they have a very nice relic that extends the wearer's bubble out to 9", which is pretty amazing. Throw it on a chapter master and he's giving all rerolls to hit for a 20" wide circle of your stuff.

Can I also suggest Deathwatch, if you're weighing up a new marine army? Very similar paint scheme, also very cool, great aesthetic and much better rules.