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With the new IK codex coming out, I have been thinking of starting an IK army, as I am sure a lot of people have been. But what's the latest thought on bringing LoWs or even a whole list of them to casual, pickup, and semi competitive games at flgs.

Am I going to be labeled tfg or has the stigma worn off? Are my opponents going to refuse to play when I starting taking out my units or will they be up for the challenge/climatic elements of it all?

If its like a Lord of Skulls or a Tau'nar in anything 2k or lower than its a little bit dumb.

But knights and baneblades and wraithknights? Nah. those are totally fine tbh. I'm totally down for fighting IK armies, but my issue isn't with perceived strength, its whether or not they are actually painted.

90% of knights I see aren't painted, and the ones that are aren't based at all. Forum galleries and reddit are an exemption to reality sadly.

Would you object to me fielding my 2 Stormsurges? Wouldn't you feel I was more than a little hypocritical if I said you couldn't play with your toys while I play with mine?

There's no reason not to run your best list. Bring what you want.

A few years ago, I'd expect superheavies to be the realm exclusively of apocalypse.

Nowadays, its par for the course and there's no sense in fighting it.

That and I've always loved the Knight models, even if deep down I still dislike GW's decision to include superheavies as common units.

The only spooky super heavies are Lords of Skulls, Baneblades and the Primarchs. Otherwise, don't worry.

LoWs are here to stay.

I think in anything outside of Competitive games such as Pickups and Casuals its always "Polite" to let an opponent know you intend on bringing LoWs to a game.

Thats just me.

you dont have too... and it would be within your rights not to say anything.

I like having friends..

 zedsdead wrote:
LoWs are here to stay.

I think in anything outside of Competitive games such as Pickups and Casuals its always "Polite" to let an opponent know you intend on bringing LoWs to a game.

Thats just me.

you dont have too... and it would be within your rights not to say anything.

I like having friends..

Because you lose friends using Wraithknights or Baneblades? Get real.

I don't need your permission to bring them, and you don't need my permission to bring yours.

Anyone who doesn't bring a stompa is TFG.

Baneblades have always been pretty ballanced. In 7th i had one blow up before my turn 1 and i dony think yhat has become less possible in 8th. Its honestly just normal to talk about your lists before playing anyway

In our area, its generally acceptable to bring a LoW though its a common courtesy to let your opponent know or to ask if theyre okay with it. Our area isnt competitive and sometimes people bring wacky underpowered lists for a laugh and its all they have with them that day and none of us like one sided games.
That and we are playing a lot of 1k games of late.

In games over 2k its all good and no one checks as that size everyone usually has something to deal with everything.

LoWs and similar in 500 or 1000 points is a bit obnoxious. But full size games? No problem.

LOW are big expensive models but they're at the end of the day another FOC slot. some are of course better then others. but aside from Gulliman I rarely if ever see LOWs discussed in "broken lists"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
LoWs are here to stay.

I think in anything outside of Competitive games such as Pickups and Casuals its always "Polite" to let an opponent know you intend on bringing LoWs to a game.

Thats just me.

you dont have too... and it would be within your rights not to say anything.

I like having friends..

Because you lose friends using Wraithknights or Baneblades? Get real.

I don't need your permission to bring them, and you don't need my permission to bring yours.

Cool your jets... the friends comment was a joke.

i never said you need permission... im just the sort who thinks its polite to let my opponent know im bringing my 3 baneblades.

 zedsdead wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
LoWs are here to stay.

I think in anything outside of Competitive games such as Pickups and Casuals its always "Polite" to let an opponent know you intend on bringing LoWs to a game.

Thats just me.

you dont have too... and it would be within your rights not to say anything.

I like having friends..

Because you lose friends using Wraithknights or Baneblades? Get real.

I don't need your permission to bring them, and you don't need my permission to bring yours.

Cool your jets... the friends comment was a joke.

i never said you need permission... im just the sort who thinks its polite to let my opponent know im bringing my 3 baneblades.

The only thing you need to let them know is you're following the point limit. Simple as that.

meleti wrote:
LoWs and similar in 500 or 1000 points is a bit obnoxious. But full size games? No problem.

how else are you going to be playing a mono IK codex game sub 1000p?
plus, when IG can bring 30 men, 1 russ, 3 heavy wep, hq and a psyker for a 500p game, then 1 or 2 knights in a 1000p game is perfectly fair.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I don't need your permission to bring them, and you don't need my permission to bring yours.

Well...yes you do need permission. If you pull out a LoW in a casual game, I'm going to look for someone else to play. I don't enjoy playing against them with my fluffy list.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Well...yes you do need permission. If you pull out a LoW in a casual game, I'm going to look for someone else to play. I don't enjoy playing against them with my fluffy list.

So you're really going to ragequit if I pull out a Macharius in an equally fluffy list?

 Griddlelol wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:


I don't need your permission to bring them, and you don't need my permission to bring yours.

Well...yes you do need permission. If you pull out a LoW in a casual game, I'm going to look for someone else to play. I don't enjoy playing against them with my fluffy list.

Then you need my permission to use your "fluffy" units.

See how that works?

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
In our area, its generally acceptable to bring a LoW though its a common courtesy to let your opponent know or to ask if theyre okay with it. Our area isnt competitive and sometimes people bring wacky underpowered lists for a laugh and its all they have with them that day and none of us like one sided games.
That and we are playing a lot of 1k games of late.

In games over 2k its all good and no one checks as that size everyone usually has something to deal with everything.

Why isn't it on the people with wacky underpowered lists to ask their opponent for special accommodation?

Yeah but no but yeah but no....

Apocalypse? No problem. Big games? No problem. Small game? What is that monster doing on a patrol sweep? Is a Primarch doing the night patrol?

I tend towards smaller games. Two factors - will it unbalance the game? Will we have fun? If the answer to either is no I'm not going to enthuse. I remember bringing ork flyers to an eldar game at opponent's request. He had no anti air. We played three turns, to see what happens in situation x - but it was no fun and the game was effectively over after my turn 1 before he had fired a shot. YMMV.

While nowhere near as horrendous as they were in 7th (Hey, Dark Eldar, I hope you brought plenty of D. Weapons...), I still think superheavy units are just boring.

I mean, it's nice that they actually follow some rules these days, as opposed to basically ignoring the entire rulebook ('No, that doesn't work. No, you can't destroy any of our weapons. No, we can't be Immobilised, stunned or slowed. etc.) However, even with degradation, they're still just big, boring bricks.

A single IK/WK/Baneblade/Stormsurge in a 1,500pts game is hardly worth mentioning.
A full IK or Baneblade list is still very skewed, and not really the type of list I enjoy playing against. I would prefer if the person I'm playing warns me before hand, if it's a casual/laid back game.
In a semi-competitive setup, it's fair game. Because while it corresponds to pretty skewed lists, they aren't completely broken or exploit very badly written rules.

If you want to play a fluffy list, you should be setting up a Narrative Play game. Matched Play already has a host of restrictions (Psychic Focus, Reserves, etc) on the players, and trying to limit an opponent's army list options beyond that is poor gamesmanship.

I'd expect to be told ahead of time, especially if you're running a pure knight army.

Despite what Slayer is saying pure super heavy armies are not the same as a fluff army. Super heavy armies reduce the game down to a math check of "do I have enough lascannons to kill the enemy?" and leads to boring games unless you're prepared for them. When I bring a fluffy army it doesn't invalidate 80% of the enemy units because their weapons are too weak to do anything. Despite what Dakka will tell you massed lasgun fire does not routinely kill baneblades.

I'll reiterate that ONE super heavy is probably okay. ONLY super heavies I would want to know ahead of time.

I think like most things it depends.

At the end of the day what it comes down to is whether the list you're brining is specifically geared towards making chunks of their army worthless; if you bring a lot of super heavy vehicles for example then while an army with good anti-tank still stands a chance, units without that firepower are effectively wasted and can't do much.

This means the game devolves into you wiping out the only threats against you, and them hoping to survive long enough to deny or claim points. Some people might enjoy the challenge, but others won't.

So I think from a courtesy perspective you should always ask an opponent first, and be ready to compromise, e.g- let them swap out a few units, or play with objectives (so they can still win even if they can't kill you). This makes sense from a fluff perspective as well as Primarchs or super heavies being present in a war zone aren't exactly going to go unnoticed, so a force that can't possibly fight them would just fall back in favour of something that can.

In bigger games Lords of War as part of a list shouldn't be an issue, but I would definitely want some discussion before playing any kind of highly specialised list; this includes any all-vehicle list, not just Lords of War, because there's the risk that the game's outcome is decided without even playing, which is no fun.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Despite what Slayer is saying pure super heavy armies are not the same as a fluff army.

Of course superheavies are the same as a fluff army. An army of nothing but superheavies is very fluffy, much fluffier than many of the supposed "fluff" armies that are just a random pile of units that have nothing to do with the background fiction. "Fluff army" and "bad at winning games" are not synonymous, don't use them that way.

Competitively speaking LoW are 100% suited for casual gaming. I just strongly dislike the concept of investing 400+ points in a single model and I'd avoid LoW in games under 3000 points, but it's all a matter of how I like playing and playing against. I also dislike playing everytime against the same list if that opponent has an elite army because game is boring with just the same few units on the ground. That's the only reason why I'm opposing LoW in casual games, that are supposed to be fun for both players.

I just finished painting (and basing) my knight. Ive only used it once so far and my opponent didn't mind at all. I didn't tell him either. But he's the kind of dude you bring whatever and he doesn't care.

 Sim-Life wrote:
I'd expect to be told ahead of time, especially if you're running a pure knight army.

Despite what Slayer is saying pure super heavy armies are not the same as a fluff army. Super heavy armies reduce the game down to a math check of "do I have enough lascannons to kill the enemy?" and leads to boring games unless you're prepared for them. When I bring a fluffy army it doesn't invalidate 80% of the enemy units because their weapons are too weak to do anything. Despite what Dakka will tell you massed lasgun fire does not routinely kill baneblades.

I'll reiterate that ONE super heavy is probably okay. ONLY super heavies I would want to know ahead of time.

I'd agree with this.
I don't like Knights because it just reduces the game down to list building.
In a tournament fine, its a skew that impacts the meta, adds an element that players have to factor in. In a friendly game though I don't think its conducive to having a fun game.