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2018/06/17 14:42:43
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Death-Dealing Devastator
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I'm just wondering what he would have been like without them and what would've changed.
from what I know he would've been like the original warhounds.
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1650 points approx. of deathwatch
2500 points aprox. of alpha legion and thousand sons
50 power admech
60 power salamanders
70 power thousand sons
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2018/06/17 15:02:09
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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We get small snippets of a possibility of what he could have been, the following is conjecture based on those.
I think he embodied brotherhood, given his actions in various novels and those of his sons prior to the nails and the musings of the librarians during the pit fights, if true he could have been a uniting factor amongst his brothers, which makes his eventual fall even more tragic.
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2018/06/20 01:58:05
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think Angron was always destined to be a brutal fighter. He singlehandedly killed an Eldar hit squad that came after him when he was a kid. However, if he never had the nails put into him and never had to see his brothers and sisters get killed while being able to do nothing I think he would be a lot less angry and nihilistic. He would most likely be more similar to Russ, but without the hypocrisy and the self-aggrandizement, but with possibly more resistance to authority. A "rebel" as opposed to Russ' "attack dog" as it were.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/20 01:59:55
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2018/06/20 03:18:43
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Damsel of the Lady
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He wouldn't be Angron. He'd be Contentron.
sorry.
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realism is a lie
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2018/06/20 13:59:35
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Revving Ravenwing Biker
New York City
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I will forever remain humble because I know I could have less.
I will always be grateful because I remember I've had less. |
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2018/06/20 14:56:01
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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I think he would have been a Martin Luther King Jr like figure, advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive regimes as a means of liberating planets during the Great Crusade.
And Malcador would have crucified him for it.
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2018/06/20 15:02:33
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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techsoldaten wrote:I think he would have been a Martin Luther King Jr like figure, advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive regimes as a means of liberating planets during the Great Crusade.
And Malcador would have crucified him for it.
The thing is, Legionnaries characteristics were derived from their Primarch's, due to the geneseed implatation. Given that pre-Angron Warhounds were already hyper-agressive, I don't think Angron would have been gandhi in Space by nature.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/20 15:02:50
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2018/06/20 16:37:55
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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He'd be the same, but minus the maniacal insanity and bloodlust.
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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2018/06/20 18:51:11
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Engrenages wrote: techsoldaten wrote:I think he would have been a Martin Luther King Jr like figure, advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive regimes as a means of liberating planets during the Great Crusade.
And Malcador would have crucified him for it.
The thing is, Legionnaries characteristics were derived from their Primarch's, due to the geneseed implatation. Given that pre-Angron Warhounds were already hyper-agressive, I don't think Angron would have been gandhi in Space by nature.
He'd be the Civ version of Gandhi.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2018/06/20 19:02:46
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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pm713 wrote:Engrenages wrote: techsoldaten wrote:I think he would have been a Martin Luther King Jr like figure, advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive regimes as a means of liberating planets during the Great Crusade.
And Malcador would have crucified him for it.
The thing is, Legionnaries characteristics were derived from their Primarch's, due to the geneseed implatation. Given that pre-Angron Warhounds were already hyper-agressive, I don't think Angron would have been gandhi in Space by nature.
He'd be the Civ version of Gandhi.
Only if the World Eaters enable Democracy
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2018/06/20 22:54:58
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Engrenages wrote: techsoldaten wrote:I think he would have been a Martin Luther King Jr like figure, advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive regimes as a means of liberating planets during the Great Crusade.
And Malcador would have crucified him for it.
The thing is, Legionnaries characteristics were derived from their Primarch's, due to the geneseed implatation. Given that pre-Angron Warhounds were already hyper-agressive, I don't think Angron would have been gandhi in Space by nature.
Brutal yes.... But maybe more like the war hounds, refined, and we'll planned assault vs pure brute force.
They would be potentially alot more tactical and cordinanated.
Without nails, and if same upbringing with emparor saving his gladiators. Definitely loyal, and his legion likely have a stronger loyalty to its members. Than thr callous using his men and spending with no care.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2018/06/21 01:57:51
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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jhe90 wrote:
Brutal yes.... But maybe more like the war hounds, refined, and we'll planned assault vs pure brute force.
They would be potentially alot more tactical and cordinanated.
Without nails, and if same upbringing with emparor saving his gladiators. Definitely loyal, and his legion likely have a stronger loyalty to its members. Than thr callous using his men and spending with no care.
Eh, not necessarily. Angron always had problems with authority figures. Even a no-nails, brothers-saved Angron would still probably not like to be told what to do by anyone. Didn't Angron once call the emperor "just another highborne bastard who is used to bossing around other people and getting his way" or something along those lines?
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2018/06/22 09:09:32
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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w1zard wrote: jhe90 wrote:
Brutal yes.... But maybe more like the war hounds, refined, and we'll planned assault vs pure brute force.
They would be potentially alot more tactical and cordinanated.
Without nails, and if same upbringing with emparor saving his gladiators. Definitely loyal, and his legion likely have a stronger loyalty to its members. Than thr callous using his men and spending with no care.
Eh, not necessarily. Angron always had problems with authority figures. Even a no-nails, brothers-saved Angron would still probably not like to be told what to do by anyone. Didn't Angron once call the emperor "just another highborne bastard who is used to bossing around other people and getting his way" or something along those lines?
True. He was his own primarch and took his own routes pretty much at cost to anyone even himself. Il revise it, he probbly would have been loyal and maybe more a slightly combative brother to leman Russ. The lap dog, vs rebel, but maybe rep's t the others ability to fight. They where both top tier primarchsnin CC.
Less of the monster that his legion became as a terror weapon. But still maybe more like a heavy assult force like wolves or blood angels?
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2018/06/24 18:21:50
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:pm713 wrote:Engrenages wrote: techsoldaten wrote:I think he would have been a Martin Luther King Jr like figure, advocating non-violent resistance to oppressive regimes as a means of liberating planets during the Great Crusade.
And Malcador would have crucified him for it.
The thing is, Legionnaries characteristics were derived from their Primarch's, due to the geneseed implatation. Given that pre-Angron Warhounds were already hyper-agressive, I don't think Angron would have been gandhi in Space by nature.
He'd be the Civ version of Gandhi.
Only if the World Eaters enable Democracy
Nah, given the tech level that must've been reached for 30k, Gandhi would be in "nuke-throwing lunatic" mode...
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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2018/06/24 20:18:05
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Squishy Squig
Britain
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None of those pesky Butchers Nails. Yay
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2018/06/27 03:25:39
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
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Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'." |
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2018/06/27 07:04:36
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
I like that theory a lot actually and never really thought about why each one landed on the planets they did, but wasn't it kinda randomized?
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2018/06/27 07:56:50
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
I like that theory a lot actually and never really thought about why each one landed on the planets they did, but wasn't it kinda randomized?
Can't be random. We know that Fulgrim was "initially" supposed to land on Chogoris, not the Khan, which means that it was somehow planned. Then, you've got the fact that many ofd them miraculously landed on planets that fitted their "theme" or "archetype" : for example Magnus, the most powerful primarch landed on Prospero, a planet extremely receptive to psyker.
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2018/06/27 22:06:21
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Engrenages wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
I like that theory a lot actually and never really thought about why each one landed on the planets they did, but wasn't it kinda randomized?
Can't be random. We know that Fulgrim was "initially" supposed to land on Chogoris, not the Khan, which means that it was somehow planned. Then, you've got the fact that many ofd them miraculously landed on planets that fitted their "theme" or "archetype" : for example Magnus, the most powerful primarch landed on Prospero, a planet extremely receptive to psyker.
I thought Magnus was just sheer luck and Lorgar just had an obsessive personality in the first place. I guess I haven't brushed up on that piece of lore too much I guess. Mind explaining the Chogoris thing? Spoilers of course for those who need it.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2018/06/27 22:09:38
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Who really knows. He might have been wise like Sanguinius or Girlyman, he might have been a less Angry version of his self but still a hot head. He is what he is, you can't know what he'd be like.
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2018/06/28 00:32:21
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Delvarus Centurion wrote:Who really knows. He might have been wise like Sanguinius or Girlyman, he might have been a less Angry version of his self but still a hot head. He is what he is, you can't know what he'd be like.
we can't but it's fun to speculate, assuming he'd not be THAT differant without the nails though is faulty, those things screw up your brain chemistry. And brain damage CAN affect people's personalities. I've heard stories of people taking brain damage and emerging almost a completely differant person, and make no mistake, Angron had brain damage.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/06/28 09:20:58
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Fixture of Dakka
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EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
Why are he and Curze so important to stop Chaos?
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2018/06/28 13:41:22
Subject: what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It's worth noting that the motives of the Chaos Gods may appear random to mortals, and they're not consistent ("Chaos"), but they're thematic. Angron was destined for Khorne's right hand, and in earlier iterations of the 40k universe he was simply one of the most martial of the Primarchs, leading the World Eaters in blood rites that were easily redirected by Horus to Khorne.
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2018/06/28 14:34:15
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Stubborn Prosecutor
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He'd probably be pretty honor focused and a more moderate version of Leman Russ - which would make Leman Russ the target for Khorne's desires. We woulda had chaos werewolf marines.
Thanks GW.
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Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series |
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2018/06/28 14:44:15
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:Who really knows. He might have been wise like Sanguinius or Girlyman, he might have been a less Angry version of his self but still a hot head. He is what he is, you can't know what he'd be like.
we can't but it's fun to speculate, assuming he'd not be THAT differant without the nails though is faulty, those things screw up your brain chemistry. And brain damage CAN affect people's personalities. I've heard stories of people taking brain damage and emerging almost a completely differant person, and make no mistake, Angron had brain damage.
It's a lot more than that, though. Angron also had all kinds of psychological trauma just from being enslaved as a child, presumably tortured, and forced into becoming a gladiator for others' amusement. Other primarchs went through some nasty gak, but nothing like that. The Nails were the icing on the cake, and part of the tragedy of Angron is that *he knows* he's broken and less than he should be, as evidenced during his fight with Guilliman in Betrayer. ADB did a great job of underlining this in that book by giving us very brief moments and glimpses of what he could have been. Holding up the Warhound leg as the World Eaters chant his name is one of them.
IMO, if Angron lands on, say, Macragge instead of Nuceria, you'd be looking a primarch focused on brotherhood and honor who leads from the front. Even the Angron we know still has a strong sense of honor...it's just been warped by all the trauma.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/28 14:46:01
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2018/06/28 15:03:32
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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gorgon wrote:BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:Who really knows. He might have been wise like Sanguinius or Girlyman, he might have been a less Angry version of his self but still a hot head. He is what he is, you can't know what he'd be like.
we can't but it's fun to speculate, assuming he'd not be THAT differant without the nails though is faulty, those things screw up your brain chemistry. And brain damage CAN affect people's personalities. I've heard stories of people taking brain damage and emerging almost a completely differant person, and make no mistake, Angron had brain damage.
It's a lot more than that, though. Angron also had all kinds of psychological trauma just from being enslaved as a child, presumably tortured, and forced into becoming a gladiator for others' amusement. Other primarchs went through some nasty gak, but nothing like that. The Nails were the icing on the cake, and part of the tragedy of Angron is that *he knows* he's broken and less than he should be, as evidenced during his fight with Guilliman in Betrayer. ADB did a great job of underlining this in that book by giving us very brief moments and glimpses of what he could have been. Holding up the Warhound leg as the World Eaters chant his name is one of them.
IMO, if Angron lands on, say, Macragge instead of Nuceria, you'd be looking a primarch focused on brotherhood and honor who leads from the front. Even the Angron we know still has a strong sense of honor...it's just been warped by all the trauma.
Yeah his whole fall is almost rooted in honour
The Emparor betrayed his brothers, despite being human he saw them as fellow warriors, thus a honour code to stand beside them.
Had he saved them, minus nails, he would of been a hot head, but had a sense of honour, not the butcher he was.
The Emparors first act was one of betrayal. not Honour, so began on bad foundations.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2018/06/30 08:48:32
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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pm713 wrote: EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
Why are he and Curze so important to stop Chaos?
Curze is easily the most obvious- because he knew, roughly, what was going to happen. In order for there to be a Heresy, the Chaos Gods had to ensure he wouldn't or couldn't stop it. Nostramo turned him into a psychopathic, antisocial nihilist who cared for little but finding his own death.
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Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'." |
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2018/06/30 14:25:27
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Fixture of Dakka
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EmpNortonII wrote:pm713 wrote: EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
Why are he and Curze so important to stop Chaos?
Curze is easily the most obvious- because he knew, roughly, what was going to happen. In order for there to be a Heresy, the Chaos Gods had to ensure he wouldn't or couldn't stop it. Nostramo turned him into a psychopathic, antisocial nihilist who cared for little but finding his own death.
I find it doubtful that would change anything. He could give all the warning he liked but the Emperor would just ignore it all.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2018/06/30 18:22:27
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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pm713 wrote: EmpNortonII wrote:pm713 wrote: EmpNortonII wrote:I think Angron was one of the two most important Primarchs to thwarting Chaos, which is why he (and Curze) ended up on the two shittiest worlds for a Primarch to have landed on.
Any of the 20 would have been completely fethed up by the Butcher's Nails. Any one of them... but the most important Primarch to drive them into was him.
Why are he and Curze so important to stop Chaos?
Curze is easily the most obvious- because he knew, roughly, what was going to happen. In order for there to be a Heresy, the Chaos Gods had to ensure he wouldn't or couldn't stop it. Nostramo turned him into a psychopathic, antisocial nihilist who cared for little but finding his own death.
I find it doubtful that would change anything. He could give all the warning he liked but the Emperor would just ignore it all.
You can't think of any points in the Heresy that would have been wildly different if some forewarning arrived? Like, ya know, the Dropsite Massacre? Istvaan V? Calth? Prospero? Signus?
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Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'." |
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2018/06/30 19:59:59
Subject: Re:what would angron have been like without the nails?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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BrianDavion wrote: Delvarus Centurion wrote:Who really knows. He might have been wise like Sanguinius or Girlyman, he might have been a less Angry version of his self but still a hot head. He is what he is, you can't know what he'd be like.
we can't but it's fun to speculate, assuming he'd not be THAT differant without the nails though is faulty, those things screw up your brain chemistry. And brain damage CAN affect people's personalities. I've heard stories of people taking brain damage and emerging almost a completely differant person, and make no mistake, Angron had brain damage.
I didn't say he wouldn't be different I just said he still might of been an extremely angry and irrational person without the nails, Angron with the butchers nails is just a whole other level of angry and irrational. But even with the nails he still retain a lot of his personality, his pride in fighting from the gladiator days, his kinship with the people he fought with, his anger at the Emperor etc. It wasn't until he fought with Lorgar that he started to really become lost.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/30 20:02:18
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