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Good Afternoon,
My local FLGS is debating on if they want to try to get into the Warhammer gaming. I would like to help them out as they are a short drive away (the next nearest game store is about an hour away). What kind of recommendations do ya'll have on how to get this project off the ground?
Thanks!

They'll either need to dedicate a couple tables or a block of time for wargaming. Getting all the necessary terrain will be the main hurdle, especially for a larger store.

Honestly, it's probably not worth it for the store. The fact that they're debating it instead of acknowledging obvious demand suggests that there isn't much of an established community, and 40k requires a large player base to be worth it. Getting inventory directly from GW has a huge minimum purchase requirement up front, and then you have to pay even more for tables and terrain. Then add lost revenue from telling the MTG players they can't have the store that night, since 40k requires a ton of table space. And forget about getting any sales if you don't do those things. Getting inventory through alternate channels wrecks your profit margin, and not providing lots of support for the game means inventory collecting dust while everyone buys their stuff elsewhere. Can you honestly say that this gamble is worth it for the store, not just for you as a player getting reduced driving time?

Thanks for the input. What about if we just try to introduce people to the hobby? I think the store manager currently just wants to give people a place to play Warhammer and see how it goes from there.
For tables, I like the gaming mats that various companies have produced & think that set up & cleanup to make room for MTG would be simple.

There are two routes you can go with tables. The first is to have a mat like you said, which is a little expensive and if played on long enough, WILL get damaged. The second route is to get it painted, which is honestly not that hard. Just get a 4x6 board of wood, spray it down with a green or grey, then maybe get some texture paints and smear then on. The terrain pieces are what really makes a battlefield.

If it helps, our FLGS has a bunch of those 7" thin tables, and they have premade and cut flat wood terrain platforms. Each 40k game only needs one table then.

 DirusdaPlagueFather wrote:
Thanks for the input. What about if we just try to introduce people to the hobby? I think the store manager currently just wants to give people a place to play Warhammer and see how it goes from there.

This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would a store want to spend money (even if only in the form of displacing customers to make room) on supporting a product they don't sell? If all they have is tables then they're paying to provide gaming space so that the players can take their money elsewhere and buy stuff. The store pays the burden of supporting the game, someone else gets the profit. Granted, it's limited information, but this is setting off red flags about the kind of store owner who has minimal business sense and runs their store with the goal of subsidizing their hobby rather than having a profitable business. These stores don't tend to last long.

If the store isn’t planning on getting into actually selling GW products then the only real risky expenditure is the initial table and some terrain. Paints, modeling supplies and things like dice/measuring tapes are still profitable and relatively safe products without hopping on the expensive GW business model.

If there aren’t any other stores in the area that have a warhammer presence that doesn’t preclude any activity. There could be a number of hobbyists who just play at home. Try asking the store owner if many people have come in seeing if the store had stock or other players to gauge interest.

If there are other warhammer players out there or possible interest then having a communal area with a table will bring them out of hiding. They won’t spend very much money, but it’s boots in the store and eyeballs looking at shelves and mouths eating the store’s snacks.

If they aren't going to sell the models or books then its probably not worth the time. For myself, if I walk into a game store and they don't have GW, I don't buy anything and I never return. I play plenty of games from various companies but I like my eggs in one basket. I'll drive 30 minutes further for a store that carries my hobby over a 5 minute walk just for a table.

 DeffDred wrote:
if I walk into a game store and they don't have GW, I don't buy anything and I never return.

God how I wish i could find stores like that.
It'd be heaven on earth!

Really the FLGS would be best asking it's community and finding out from GW the minimum they must stock (if that's still a thing)

Since we don't know your store and we don't know the local interests of players it's hard to say.
A large amount of historical players for instance probably won't much care for space men and tonka toys.

I would say if your store owner wants to test the water and see what the local support level is like for Warhammer then they've got to put some money behind it.

This doesn't mean that they've got to stock Warhammer, however I think it does mean that they've got to do more than just have a table or two set aside.


They've got to give gamers a reason to come to them, to get their army boxed up and carried to the store and to play at the store.


So a few considerations

1) Tables and terrain - you want good tables and good terrain. They might be able to poach some from fans and get fans to help build it; but otherwise they've got to invest in making the tables look good. This is often one big difference between "home play" and "shop/club play". Having good quality terrain makes a difference.

2) Light, air, room. Yep gotta have good lighting, good airflow and good room to play around the tables (however many they've got).

3) Events. Yes events. A tournament, a campaign - something. Something that gives players something to connect with and to turn up too and get involved in. This is often another one of those things that is like the terrain in giving people something different from just playing at home. A prize (a money off coupon for the store is nice but if they don't stock warhammer its pointless so a cash prize or GW gift card would suit)




From the stores perspective they've got to want to do it and consider the local competition. Warhammer is not a bread-winner for most stores. It's expensive to stock, takes up a lot of room and sells slowly. It's why Magic the Gathering and Yugio are the lifeblood of most stores as they are far cheaper to stock, take up far less shelf space to display and sell fast (and even have game modes that generate sales like booster draft).
So if they want Warhammer, whilst it can be profitable, they've got to want to do it rather than just expect it to turn a big profit. Though part of that is how much energy they put into it too; if they have warhammer game nights; have good tables; run good events and build the local community up then its going to work far better than if they just stock a handful of models and call it quits.


But consider the local scene and stores placement. Are they going to get good footfall of new customers; is there a big school/uni in town to help generate younger customers for sales; is there a big GW store just around the corner or in the next town etc..

I actually agree with peregrine here. Making warhammer profitable into a store requires a big and loyal community that buys where they play.

I think you guys are reading into this way too much.

Who knows exactly what the store owner wants to do with his gaming space and why. Maybe rent is ultra-cheap and a chunk of his players are playing 40k elsewhere, and he wants to have regular foot traffic.

Parents shop where the kids get dropped off, for example.

If the 40K players already have somewhere else then its actually harder as the store owner has to them provide not just better than "home gaming" but another store to attract customers.

OF course if the store has the space then that's a big issue out of the way - thing is many of the geek shops I know of are not gifted with huge empty space to develop (though granted the UK is tighter on space than the USA in general). And few retailers will have large areas of rental space on hand just because; for most extra free space is a further investment; doubly so if the space isn't on the main shop area (eg its an upstairs area) as that means if the store wants to run games and serve customers the owner has to consider thing like CCTV or another staff member to oversee things

 Overread wrote:
If the 40K players already have somewhere else then its actually harder as the store owner has to them provide not just better than "home gaming" but another store to attract customers.

OF course if the store has the space then that's a big issue out of the way - thing is many of the geek shops I know of are not gifted with huge empty space to develop (though granted the UK is tighter on space than the USA in general). And few retailers will have large areas of rental space on hand just because; for most extra free space is a further investment; doubly so if the space isn't on the main shop area (eg its an upstairs area) as that means if the store wants to run games and serve customers the owner has to consider thing like CCTV or another staff member to oversee things

Yeah, like i said, there are a lot of reasons why or why not, but that's not really what is being asked here, and even answering that question properly requires more information than we have.

The doom sayers aside I think your Store needs to first examine the logistics end of the question. As has been pointed out 40K takes a lot of room, if at some point in the future your FLGS is able to establish a large community that could make carrying GW product worth while do they have the space to accommodate that community?

Many gaming stores just do not have that much space. 2-3 tables is not enough for a large community. In my opinion a decent metric would be whether they can accommodate somewhere around 7-10 tables, even if it was a bit cramped. This allows for busy 40K days/evenings and allows for a good sized tournament to take place with 14-20 players. While tournament play is not everyone's cup of tea those tournament players often account for a significant portion of a stores GW sales as they are usually buying new units/models to meet whatever the current meta has changed to.

The second thing to consider is whether there are any GW stores nearby. Having to compete with them needs to factor into the decision as well. It's not hard for a FLGS to compete but the reality is that a nearby GW store is going to reduce GW product sales by some % and can make the decision a bit more difficult.

If they have the room and there aren't any GW stores nearby it may be worth the attempt to build up a community but it will require some dedicated time and effort from either the store or a community leader with good relations with the store to make it happen and then sustain it.

One trick local store does is 10% discount on GW stores on gaming nights. Gives incentive to come to game nights which boosts community. If there's plenty games people are more likely to feel like upgrading armies/getting new ones and while they might get cheaper from net some will feel supporting store then especially as gap might not be that big anymore.

I know I have started buying more from local store with that. Price difference isn't QUITE as bad and they are providing gaming nights with decent table count and good terrain so feel they are providing something worth me. And it's straight off from shelf rather than wait shipping from UK which is plus. Only issue is being different town to where I live(but same where I work) and last train of night leaving bit early making it hard timing wise :-/

You've said the nearest game store is an hour's drive away, so I hope this place works out for you!

I disagree with what others have said, Warhammer is just another game. There's no 'minimum size' required beyond two players with armies and a table. Other posters here seem to be making a lot of assumptions about your FLGS and what the owner and players are looking for.

 Overread wrote:
) Events. Yes events. A tournament, a campaign - something. Something that gives players something to connect with and to turn up too and get involved in. This is often another one of those things that is like the terrain in giving people something different from just playing at home. A prize (a money off coupon for the store is nice but if they don't stock warhammer its pointless so a cash prize or GW gift card would suit)

This is probably the best advice so far. Events are exactly the kind of thing to garner interest, a little $5 trophy cup with "[FLGS Town] 40k 2018 Warmaster" is neat.

My only other advice might be for the FLGS owner to have a table set aside for interested players, and small points levels will be the way to go for introductory players. 1000 points comes with quite a price tag for most armies.

Starting out events with 500, 200 or even Kill Team levels in points might be a good start. I don't mean the most recent Kill Team addition either, though you can try that. Battle Missions in 7th Edition had a Kill Team mission where each side put together 200-250 points worth of units and then after deployment every single model acted like a separate unit. A good way to introduce the rules without a massive price tag, and new players can easily get attached to individual models with a Kill Team story behind them.

Good luck!

Our local FLGS got its 40K crowd off the ground by starting an Escalation League - 250 points for the first two games, then working upwards to “full-sized” games. They were, of course, also selling the minis so folks could begin with a Start Collecting set and working upwards. I think we had 15-20 people join. The store only has space for 2-3 games at a time, but they were able to make it work.

That was back at the start of 7th edition, BTW, and that community is still pretty active at the FLGS - with a resurgence since 8E came out (though personally, I don’t play with the group - but I do see them there throughout the week).

Okay! Lets start with Product:

To gauge if there is any interest, they should probably just get in some of the two player starter boxes, and some of the Start Collectings. Then instead of getting the Citadel brand paint rack, just get in Army Painter, as they're starting rack is cheaper.

As for Play space: the others have it right, They really need to set aside at least one night specifically for Warhammer, or keep a designated table set up at all times.

I think before they buy product they need to research their local scene. Getting started boxes are great - unless the entire local scene are experienced players with no interest in them.

I neglected to think of this earlier with my post, but it should be the very first step.

How many of their current customers are already fans or interested in GW products; how many local stores compete for supply of Warhammer; how many local clubs are there (both those linked to schools/uni and independents).; are there any local events/groups that run.

From there they can start to make some choices on how to proceed and how to market any start-up concept of supporting GW products.

even experianced players sometimes buy getting started boxes if it's the right one. although it can vary from army to army and place to place

BrianDavion wrote:
even experianced players sometimes buy getting started boxes if it's the right one. although it can vary from army to army and place to place

Agreed heck some of the GS are the only place you can get some models (fantasy has a couple where big models are only sold now in the getting started kit). But my point was not so much the GS but more the market that is local. Another example would be if the store got in Space marines and orks but everyone local played dark elves and tau. Again there might still be an interest, but chances are if they'd gotten the Tau and Dark Eldar it would have been more interest.


And, of course, its not as simple as that because a store should also look to recruit new players too. But the more info they go in with the better choices they can make.

Ralis wrote:
To gauge if there is any interest, they should probably just get in some of the two player starter boxes, and some of the Start Collectings.

The problem is that GW doesn't let you do this. To get an account with them and order inventory you have to make an up-front purchase of a considerable amount of specific products and you have to commit to keeping those products in stock. You can't just buy a couple of boxes and ignore the rest, not without having to get your inventory through alternate channels and lose your profit margin. This makes getting into selling GW games a major investment that you'd be foolish to make without confidence that you're going to have customers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
I disagree with what others have said, Warhammer is just another game. There's no 'minimum size' required beyond two players with armies and a table.

Of course there's a minimum size. GW requires a minimum inventory purchase to stock their products, and paying for inventory and shelf space is only justified if you're making sales. Two players with armies (which they probably bought elsewhere) and a table will not generate enough sales to turn that inventory commitment into a net profit. And treating the store as a fun place to play games with your friends instead of a for-profit business is a great way to lose money and no longer have a store.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
I disagree with what others have said, Warhammer is just another game. There's no 'minimum size' required beyond two players with armies and a table.

Of course there's a minimum size. GW requires a minimum inventory purchase to stock their products, and paying for inventory and shelf space is only justified if you're making sales. Two players with armies (which they probably bought elsewhere) and a table will not generate enough sales to turn that inventory commitment into a net profit. And treating the store as a fun place to play games with your friends instead of a for-profit business is a great way to lose money and no longer have a store.

Obviously if you are a GW store you need a dedicated level of sales from the beginning to stay in business. But a FLGS has the advantage of players coming into to purchase, paint or play any other game like Infinity, Warmahordes or even Magic. It is perfectly reasonable for a minimal commitment to GW products to draw in prospective players that otherwise have little exposure to GW models. Two players having a match in the store will attract attention from other patrons.

The store has to be careful not to scare away potential newbies with a massive price tag commonly associated with a full starter kit and moderately sized army. One way to do that is to encourage gradual build ups, even from a single squad level, via low point level events.