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To the lovely MODs:
<3

I know I have another thread, but it has gone long passed optimizing my list and on to another guy's list and quasi batreps, so I'm just reposting another for the good of the community, given the current climate in the tourney scene. Wouldn't want to have me reach Top Table at a major GT and find out I'd not paid for a blast pistol or something, now would we? Nevermind my ego; it'd be detrimental to the community. Scandal after scandal is just something a ... society just should not have to put up with? Now should it?


I am looking for a legality check.
a. Do I have the points right?
b. Legal equipment?
c. Cabals functional because of proper segregation?
d. Combat Drugs all properly parsed out?


2k
13 Command Points

Battalion - Kabal of the Black Heart

Archon - blast pistol, huskblade 86 points - Warlord has Writ of the Living Muse for a relic and Labyrinthine Cunning for a warlord trait.
Archon - blast pistol, huskblade 86 points
Trueborn - x4 blasters & one blast pistol - 143
Trueborn - x4 blasters - 133
x5 Kabalites 30
x5 Kabalites 30
x5 Kabalites 30
Ravager x3 DLs & Shock Prow - 141
Ravager x3 DLs & Shock Prow - 141
Ravager x3 DLs & Shock Prow - 141
Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow - 81
Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow - 81
Raider - Disintegrator Cannon, Shock Prow - 81
Venom - 65
Venom - 65

Cabal of the Cursed Blade
Succubus - blast pistol 60 points. Combat Drugs +2 inch
Succubus - (Arch.Glaive & Agon) 54. CD +1T
x9 Wyches - blast pistol, agonizer, ShardNet & Impaler 91 points CD +1 A
x9 Wyches - blast pistol, agonizer, ShardNet & Impaler 91 points CD +1 S
x9 Wyches - blast pistol, agonizer, ShardNet & Impaler 91 points CD +1 WS
x5 Scourges - x4 haywire blasters 92
x5 Scourges - x4 haywire blasters 92
x5 Scourges - x4 heat lances 108

1993 points

Did I miss anything?

You could install the Battlescribe app on your cellphone maybe... It's easy to use and you can check all point costs and strange rules there - plus make PDF files for printing etc.

 Dampyr Blackblade wrote:
You could install the Battlescribe app on your cellphone maybe... It's easy to use and you can check all point costs and strange rules there - plus make PDF files for printing etc.

Does BS catch kabal interactions, specific to drukhari?

Anyway, I could, but I have long used an excel spread sheet. BattleScribe's format has not been one that I prefer use or read off an opponent's list, too many plus ++ signs and such. Many posters have stated that BS makes mistakes. Posting and having many look at it is in practice the best way to proof read a list. Sorta like wikipedia.

Mostly this is, did I make a mental error? And if so, would the posters in dakka help me check?

Thanks for the recommendation, though.

Looks good. I'm not going to check your math, I barely check my own.

You only have one artifact and 1 war lord trait and they are both legit.


Good luck!

but keep in mind your trueborn blasters will do only d3 damage...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/753970.page#9919181

How are 5 warriors 55 points?

RedNoak wrote:
but keep in mind your trueborn blasters will do only d3 damage...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/753970.page#9919181

I checked with my TO, who said, although the index lists d3, one defaults to the codex for a listing, the blaster's listing.

It says D6. Worth checking on though with the judges at the next event.

Further, if I am going to pay the blaster's couple more codex points, then I get that gun's update stat as well. Right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nivoglibina wrote:
How are 5 warriors 55 points?

I made a typo here on this thread. I have them 5x6 on paper. Trueborn are the other points. I will fix.
Thanks

 Brothererekose wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
but keep in mind your trueborn blasters will do only d3 damage...
Further, if I am going to pay the blaster's couple more codex points, then I get that gun's update stat as well. Right?

nope because you dont get to decide... the rules are pretty clear. stupid, but clear

but if your TO is ok with that... i see no probs, just wanted to give an headsup

RedNoak wrote:
but keep in mind your trueborn blasters will do only d3 damage...

 Brothererekose wrote:
Further, if I am going to pay the blaster's couple more codex points, then I get that gun's update stat as well. Right?

nope because you dont get to decide... the rules are pretty clear. stupid, but clear

They're not "pretty clear"; not when someone asks for clarification, and when the index says D3 damage and the codex says D6 ... that's rather defining as "confusing" because, you have two different listings for the same gun. And different people coming to two different conclusions about the same weapon's damage. That is also defining as confusing. We are not interpreting art. And by listing a clarification (someplace), GW has done so people know when to use the index and when to default to the codex, because, you know, they might not be sure whether to use the index or codex.

@all
I have looked through the April BIG FAQ & Chapter Approved, and am still looking, but I can't find where it states to use the codex over the index. Does someone know which FAQ or document it is? I want to reread it to check the exact phrasing, so if anyone cares to quote it, great, but please include the source, too.

Standing on the
As a 20+ year teacher, I recommend not using that phrase "the rules are pretty clear" on kids (or anyone) seeking knowledge or clarity. You're not being a good teacher, mentor, leader, nor Tournament Official. Instead, just point out, teach, give info, and clarify. If you tell them that the answer is obvious, or the rules are clear, you're basically putting them down, causing feelings of inadequacy, etc. That seeker might then not look for answers the next time, because this time they were made to feel poorly. It's not a good way to educate.
Getting off the

I'm okay and not remotely butt-hurt (you used the smiling emoticon to take the sting out of it ). But what is the purpose of YMDC if all of GW's rules were clear? The answer is, of course some rules are *not* clear (did you ever try to work through AP1 versus Skimmers?). But if it were me, I'd write an algorithm for Mr. Regul, that would automatically delete that phrase in this forum.

Lastly, at I did check with the TOs at BAO, ya know, , those guys that GW has consulted with extensively on 8e's development, and while they're not official GW mouth pieces, dropping their names does not commit a fallacy of appeal to authority, because they're usually pretty current on rules and they are GW ... "consultants".

The ruling from them, Mr. Raspy voice himself, 'D-six damage. Use the codex listing.' There was further talk about mustaches, but that's not relevant here.

The rules are a mess. Pretty much everyone agrees.


Back on topic, have you run your list in the tourney you were preparing for yet? How did you do?

 Brothererekose wrote:

I have looked through the April BIG FAQ & Chapter Approved, and am still looking, but I can't find where it states to use the codex over the index. Does someone know which FAQ or document it is? I want to reread it to check the exact phrasing, so if anyone cares to quote it, great, but please include the source, too.

Designers' Commentary. Specifically the part that says "note that if wargear has rules in the codex, these replace the index rules"

Headlss wrote:
Back on topic, have you run your list in the tourney you were preparing for yet? How did you do?

Yes, the Bay Area Open. WLD = 3, 2, 1

Round 1 - Loss. I got tabled on 3. A two Y'vahra list I mishandled (bungled, fumbled, derp!)
Round 2 - Win. I tabled GS cult by 5.
Round 3 - Tied versus Nurgle Daemons*
Round 4 - Loss to Aeldari.
Round 5 - Win versus T'au
Round 6 - Win versus Chaos Daemons. He set up 2 lines of cultists within easy, first round wych assault, and they were next to Abbadon, so Fearless. I had 75% of the board controlled by middle of Turn 3, so his 29 Bloodletter bomb was sidelined into ineffectiveness.


Round 2 - I think it was a bad list match up. He castled, giving me board control and wyches in transports have the advantage over genestealers. I used Agents of Vect to cancel the strategem for rolling the GS units' ... deep striking Turn 1 better dice option (iirc). It helped me a lot.

Round 5 - Though my opponent's T'au flattened every big boat, he couldn't get the other 2 secondaries, nor board control and I pulled ahead in objective scoring. He had Head Hunter and ... I forgot the other, maybe Old School. I finished strong at the end with all 4 of my characters alive and Getting-Things-Done.

Round 4 - I now know what my mistakes were. Holding back one set of wyches, instead of going forward with all 3 units, not moving on to a better terrain oriented assault, etc. I did kill 2 Hemlocks and a Crimson Hunter Ex, though. One with a lucky throw of double s for damage. He didn't make one FNP on that toss.

Round 3 - The tie was versus Nurgle Daemons. He'd added a D3 Plague Drones after rolling a for the daemonic icon, instead of just one model. I asked about it right then and ought to have pressed for a codex check, but I wasn't feeling hard up for a Cold. Hard. Game. At that time, I thought I'd still be able to win. So we play out to a tie, which after 9 hours of 40k, it feels good to go 1, 1 & 1.

The next day, he was at the table next to me (makes sense, we had the same record) and I asked him to check his codex. When he realized his mistake, he muttered, "I'm an cheater." He genuinely apologized and I think was going to go to the judges for a record correction, and I politely said it was fine, that we didn't need to have the Tie retroactively flipped to my Win. There was another handshake.

Nice guy. I'd happily play him again. Actually all 6 opponents weren't remotely tools. I think, out of 6 years of BAOs, these were the best set of opponents.

Happy with the list? Every thing do its job pretty well? Anything ypu would drop? Can you puck an MVP for the weekend? Was there anything you just couldn't deal with from the opponets?

I added 3 talos and a unit of 3 Grotesques to get up to 1500 and I am pretty happy with them. They are as tough as advertised.

Headlss wrote:
Happy with the list? Every thing do its job pretty well? Anything ypu would drop? Can you puck an MVP for the weekend?

Happy? Yup.

Despite that, I am considering trading one unit of trueblasters and their venom out for a farseer skyrunner and rangers, for Doom. I did not draw any Imperial Knight opponents, but they're certainly going to be in the future, and Doom might well serve me better in taking one down by increasing every S8 shot's chances of wounding. Instead of just 4 more blasters. Doom will increase the number of lance/blaster wounds on Imp Knight T8 by 25%, whereas the 4 of them in a list of 25 or so is a little less than a 16% increase in chances to hit, let alone wound.

The MVP is a tough call as different units did great things in different games. There were many elements that worked well.
a. The venom's maneuverability was great for sniping characters; getting in behind screens, and then its small foot print allows for snuggling up to hiding HQs, and then the Trueblasters nail them. With this, I bagged Abbadon, some DPs, an ethereal, maybe a patriarch, iirc.
b. Raiders - transports, then Overwatch handlers, with Inured to Suffering. They all died in my losses and ties, so that's a hard read in causality.
c. Labyrinthine CP farming. My dice were hot and every opponent agreed I probably farmed better than 6 CPs per game. I know one game yielded 9 extra CPs.
d. Inured to Suffering. Thrice I had raiders wheeze out extra turns hovering with one wound left.
e. Scourges with haywires. Okay against infantry, fast as heck for secondaries like Recon or Behind Enemy Lines. And of course, vehicle stompers.
f. The girls. Hardest to swing just right, as "glass hammer" implies. My losses were very much on failure to use, deploy, and apply the right amount of force on their first charge. I think I am getting better though.
g. The warlord's reroll s to hit and to wound (Writ of the Living Muse).
h. Agents of Vect

Weakest units, although not useless ones:
- the Heat Lance birds. Good for tearing down non-Invuln high wound units (carnifexes, elvish fliers), but I didn't run into too many of those.
- kabalites. The token objective holders with no upgrades. They performed as expected. They hide. When targeted, they die.
- succubi. these girls mostly did cheer leading bubble reroll s with occasional, extra No Escape duty. I expected too much from them. I need to use them like bullies and pick on weak, nearly dead targets, like T'au Fire Warriors.
- archon #2, sometime Helmet of Spite. I might have done 2 Perils against 4 psycher featured armies.

Headlss wrote:
Was there anything you just couldn't deal with from the opponets?

Invuln saves stymie the DLs and blasters' high AP bypass, in particular the Y'Varhas. A lot of D6 damage was wasted on drones that first game. The venoms failed to work their way through the opoponent's drone cache, and I had to plink away with blasters and lances, and it wasn't enough to kill either Y'Varha. I got one down to 6 wounds, and then all my kids vanished.

On a rematch, I would have the wyches assault the drones, but I'd run into the same OverWatch problem that destroyed 2 raiders. I now know to position 1 succubus in nearly out of LoS of the bigger suits that were behind the ruin, and therefore unable to shoot at her. That's how I finally got the assault done. I ate 3 FW units, a cadre and some drones, but it was a good thorw of my strength at an insubstantial part of his army. Thus, a big loss Round 1.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As BAO top tables were dominated by Imp Knight lists, I think they're going to be a hard counter, but I need to get in games. The guy that came in 2nd Place is at my local game store, so I'll get his Knights in a game at some point.

Yeah I hate those big suits with shield drones.

If you are going to add a psycher dressing to the dark elf salad you've got, why not throw in a warlock too. Jinx (i think thats the right spell) drops invul saves and threy are pretty cheep.

I am thinking I want a farseer, a warlock and a Skyrunner Autarch with Banshe mask for first turn charges. But I already have 3 detachments. Oh well, build and paint what I have before buying anythi g else.

Headlss wrote:
Yeah I hate those big suits with shield drones.

If you are going to add a psycher dressing to the dark elf salad you've got, why not throw in a warlock too. Jinx (i think thats the right spell) drops invul saves and threy are pretty cheep.

A Warlock is a very good idea, given how Invulns are a problem.