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I love terrain, and I want more.
The new expansions were exciting -
cool stuff, nice enough price, Killteam support bonus.

But, I am NOT interested in buying them.
I wanted to be.
But GW went and made the gaming boards 22x30.
Why not 24x36?
Double sided, there are so many options
to build full sized tables using these card boards for Killteam.
Buy four kits and end up with a 6x4 table.
Mix and match with friends, and share terrain and boards and...
Scale up, playing 3x4 for smaller games of 40k,
using single boards for Killteam,
and so on up to...

But GW made the boards 22x30.
The sheer madness of it has turned me off of Killteam altogether, frankly.
Just seems like a missed opportunity to me.
Too markety-niche-profit maximizy,
and not hobby-optimal.
So, I won't be giving GW marketing squids my money - bottom line.
I can find terrain bundles other places, other ways.
Have enough models to Killteam to the cows come home.
If I might have been able to use these expansion kits to, well, expand,
then I was chompin at the bit to pick up a couple.
But...

Anyone else feel this way?
Other observations?


edit: "there sheer madness" to "the sheer madness"...

So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?

Seems strange.


Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?

Seems strange.


Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.

Yeah I get it after Moon Base Klausius (spelling?)
people shouldn't care about standard table sizes right?
Cuz 8th is all about using what you got, right?
As long as you got 2 codexes and 2 indexes and 2 rulebooks and the cards,
and a ton of LoS blocking terrain (duct taped windows, included),
then you can throw down on your kitchen table
...
Yeah.

No, I am not into these Expansions because they don't expand.
Well.
In a thought out way.
Into what is ideally a 40k table.
Because Killteam is sort of mini 40k,
I see no reason for an inconsistent form factor.
My left brain thus says no to the sub-optimality ...

You're choosing to give up a perfectly good game because someone made a design decision to make Kill Team better rather than fitting to the established table sizing.

You and I will need to agree to disagree I think. It's my opinion that Kill Team expands 40k in a good way. I think that deviating from established standards means that it *WAS* thought-out; had they chosen to stick to standards we may have thought that they didn't ask the question to determine whether it was good for the game.

Cardboard table is lame anyway. I wish they'd sell individual Realm of Battle tiles so that I could just buy one of those for this game. I'm too cheap to buy the full set.

Yeah, I'm not getting your point either.

If you want to use KT boards on a regular 6'x4' table, there's no reason on earth you can't put a board in the center of each table quadrant. Each board just ends up with an undecorated border of a few inches around it--which might make for better visual transitions between different boards anyway.

To muster the energy to publicly complain about this, of all things, strikes me as bizarre.

The board sizes don't bother me, but I'm kind of pissed off you can't get all the faction rules outside of the faction starter sets.

It's pretty lame that you have to buy a £37.50 box of models and terrain you might not want just to get a tactics.

Don't buy it.
You don't be missed.

I was confused about this whole "Kill Team Expansions" topic, thinking that it was perhaps about the individual kill teams they've released as get starter sets for some armies and how they missed the boat on some things, or that there was some complaint that they said they wouldn't be including daemons in future expansions on the Facebook.

Basically I wasn't expecting this to be a complaint that the Kill Team game, which already had some mechanics not found in regular 40k, doesn't match regular 40k due to slightly different sizes for board space. I felt like I walked into a BoLS article once I saw what this was actually about.

My confusion aside, you're tossing out a perfectly functional game that may be even better balanced than regular 40k just because you can't use the boards to make a full sized 40k table?

I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.

I can think of allot of reasons not to touch games GW makes now...but the boards being smaller than standard is...weird as hell for a reason.
It's just an area to play on...who cares if it's not exactly done in 12" sections.
That's stupid.
Heck my gaming area for everything is100×100cm. And I hope to make it 150x150cm.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.

I dunno. I have seen members of this forum state clearly and publicly they would refuse to play an opponent if they haven't spent an equal amount of money on their army as they have.

<REMOVED>

ValentineGames wrote:
I can think of allot of reasons not to touch games GW makes now...but the boards being smaller than standard is...weird as hell for a reason.
It's just an area to play on...who cares if it's not exactly done in 12" sections.
That's stupid.
Heck my gaming area for everything is100×100cm. And I hope to make it 150x150cm.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.

I dunno. I have seen members of this forum state clearly and publicly they would refuse to play an opponent if they haven't spent an equal amount of money on their army as they have.

<REMOVED>

<REMOVED>

My point is not about killteam as a game but specifically about the expansions ... That dont really expand.

Seems a pretty straightforward idea.
I might play the game when i have time to play games again someday but i wont be buying these boxes for this reason...

So far as i can tell only one respondent seems to have even read my op well enuf to understand it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I was confused about this whole "Kill Team Expansions" topic, thinking that it was perhaps about the individual kill teams they've released as get starter sets for some armies and how they missed the boat on some things, or that there was some complaint that they said they wouldn't be including daemons in future expansions on the Facebook.

Basically I wasn't expecting this to be a complaint that the Kill Team game, which already had some mechanics not found in regular 40k, doesn't match regular 40k due to slightly different sizes for board space. I felt like I walked into a BoLS article once I saw what this was actually about.

My confusion aside, you're tossing out a perfectly functional game that may be even better balanced than regular 40k just because you can't use the boards to make a full sized 40k table?

I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.

Not "tossing out" the game.
Just the non expanding expansions


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?

Seems strange.


Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.

Again.EXPANSIONS....
WOW.
English suddenly a third language or are people on dakka usin lots of pills?

ValentineGames wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I've heard some petty things in this hobby, but that might be the pettiest one I've heard to date.

I dunno. I have seen members of this forum state clearly and publicly they would refuse to play an opponent if they haven't spent an equal amount of money on their army as they have.

That is some of the most elitist behavior I've ever heard of. I mean...seriously?

Do they play Forgeworld model armies too just so they can flaunt their wealth too?

 jeff white wrote:

Again.EXPANSIONS....
WOW.
English suddenly a third language or are people on dakka usin lots of pills?

Hm....Googling "game expansion" got me this (bolded the important part for emphasis):

An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters and/or an extended storyline to an already released game.

I don't think a bit of cardboard and some terrain is really an expansion since it's part of the initial release and not an expansion to the existing game.

So it's less that people don't understand the word, but more this chestnut:


That said, it should be pointed out that even if you personally don't like the cardboard mat you could still pick up the starter if it has armies you play as it's a cheap way to get more models bundled with terrain. If they aren't the army you play anyways then don't bother with it and wait for the terrain kits to come out on their own or in a terrain bundle and pick them up that way if you need/want more ruined buildings for your table. Basically it's not worth complaining about a cardboard mat you don't like when it's not really an expansion to the game and only serves as a way of providing context for the terrain kit they provided and could easily be replaced with a well made board or even with any of those printed mousepad style game mats which tend to look nicer than the cardboard ones do anyways.

I’ll try to take both sides -

I too saw the Killteam cars base and thought “oh, I could get multiples and have a poor man’s realm of battle!” Much the same way I saw the Necromunda card tiles and thought “now I have a cheap zone mortalis!” But, then I saw the dimensions and realized that was still not an option. So, that’s a shame - GW could do well selling 2’ x 2’ card tiles for cheap realms of battle. So, I too was bummed.

But, Killsone isn’t meant to be a 40k starter either. It’s GW giving a skirmish game in their most popular setting with their most popular armies that can be played on a regulation dinner table, not a game table. To that end, the expansions are lovely, creating themed visually appealing backdrops that even provide thematic rules. As an expansion to 40k they’re only okay, as an expansion to Killteam they are excellent.

@OP

If you really dig the terrain then just get it. The boards are just the cherry on top. You aren't required to play on them, but you can if you want to. Or just toss them in the trash and make your own board. GW have never mandated board size AFAIK, 6*4 has just been the standard, which I believe is due to it being the largest table that isn't inconvenient to use.

Though do consider that these boards and expansions were made specifically for kill team, using them in 40k is just a bonus and a 40" by 60" board is still a reasonable size for 40k. If you really want to you can just make it a 5' by 5'.

It just seems silly to not buy in if this is the only con to the box, esp since the terrain is actually cheaper when it comes with the board.

I was put off by the playing area, as well (among other things). After watching some batreps, I think it is fair to say that the playing space, combined with the fact that weapons ranges and movement values are the same as in base 40k, is in fact too small for movement/positioning to be as large a part of gameplay as I would like. (The terrain density in the games is also a factor)

I think it is equally fair to say the the kill zone boxes aren't really "expansions" in the sense that they don't build very much on the base game the way say, a D&D supplement gives you new classes, spells, etc. I expect the first expansion to unlock some of the missing unit options, and maybe Inquisition and weapons & equipment.

24” x 36” is fine, instead of 22x30 or whatever.

Give the 3rd party mat makers some time and I am sure you’ll see some nice ones being put out.

I have no skin in the game, but I will agree that 24x36" would have actually been much smarter and would have grabbed numerous 40K players who may not be buying into Killteam. A lot of players are interested in quick and easy options for gaming mats, and 6'x4' really is the standard size these days.

Opportunity missed. I don't think it's some knock on Kill Team itself, but they did probably lose some sales because of the odd size choice.

From what I can tell the main thing regarding the board is how far away the two sides start from each other. Beyond that it doesn’t really matter how big the boards are.

I play on our dining room table. It’s 44”x72”. I have a few of the fat mats plus all sorts of terrain. I even use this table when we play xwing or armada, just with a star field map. As long as we define the outer boundaries and have the deployment zones more than 24” then we are good.

 Crimson wrote:
Cardboard table is lame anyway. I wish they'd sell individual Realm of Battle tiles so that I could just buy one of those for this game. I'm too cheap to buy the full set.

I was just going to say they do, but I just checked the GW site and nope. They're gone. GW, you used to sell them on their own- what gives?

Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?

 Peregrine wrote:
Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?

Why are we assuming anything before most of us have had a chance to play a few games?

 Peregrine wrote:
Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?

My thoughts exactly, they likely did it because it was the biggest they could fit in the box.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?

Seems strange.


Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.

Who in right mind would play 40k in 3.6'x5.5'? That's smaller than 6'x4' which is already too small for 40k these days. You need more like 8'x5'. Bggger if possible

 Elbows wrote:
I have no skin in the game, but I will agree that 24x36" would have actually been much smarter and would have grabbed numerous 40K players who may not be buying into Killteam. A lot of players are interested in quick and easy options for gaming mats, and 6'x4' really is the standard size these days.

Opportunity missed. I don't think it's some knock on Kill Team itself, but they did probably lose some sales because of the odd size choice.

Bam!

Nail. Head.
Bingo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
So you're no longer interested in Kill Team because Kill Team isn't making trade-offs in the design for Kill Team just to make it easier to use bits for things not-Kill Team, notably a cardboard 40K-table nobody ever asked for anyhow?

Seems strange.


Also, if getting your 40K onto a cardboard surface is your main concern, just play it on a 3.6' by 5' or 5.5' by 5' table made from Kill Team stuff. 6'x4' is kinda 2012 anyhow.

Who in right mind would play 40k in 3.6'x5.5'? That's smaller than 6'x4' which is already too small for 40k these days. You need more like 8'x5'. Bggger if possible

My feelings exactly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?

Yup.
Thanks.
I was unable to make this point so clearly.
This is lovely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Why are we assuming that the non-standard size makes the game better, instead of being better for GW's production or packaging concerns?

My thoughts exactly, they likely did it because it was the biggest they could fit in the box.

Great minds, bro.
Great minds.
Or was that livers?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

clively wrote:
From what I can tell the main thing regarding the board is how far away the two sides start from each other. Beyond that it doesn’t really matter how big the boards are.

I play on our dining room table. It’s 44”x72”. I have a few of the fat mats plus all sorts of terrain. I even use this table when we play xwing or armada, just with a star field map. As long as we define the outer boundaries and have the deployment zones more than 24” then we are good.

Yeah, practicality reigns in the real world no doubt.

The size makes sense. Outside of the gaming world, 30x30 is a common size for a table. So, a 30x22 board would fit, with a bit of room for rolls, tokens and dead models.

The fold-out poster map is an odd size, I'll give you that - but it's not putting me off from buying Killteam stuff. Quite the opposite, I ordered just the mat off e-bay by itself, and I'm hoping to score 2-3 more if I can. Heck, I'd also like to get my hands on some Overkill and possibly new Necromunda tiles.

It would be nice if GW would do 12" X 12" chipboard tiles you could puzzle together into the battlefield of your choice - something that's boardgame thickness and folds away for easy storage. Hell, a "battlefield in a box", made of cardboard and boardgame tiles would be a great idea, I think and would be something I'd easily buy into to cover (multiple) 4' X 6' tables, especially if it wasn't just the "mat" but fold up ruins, wrecks and other items that all fit into a neat box on the shelf when I was finished.

 Stormonu wrote:
The fold-out poster map is an odd size, I'll give you that - but it's not putting me off from buying Killteam stuff. Quite the opposite, I ordered just the mat off e-bay by itself, and I'm hoping to score 2-3 more if I can. Heck, I'd also like to get my hands on some Overkill and possibly new Necromunda tiles.

It would be nice if GW would do 12" X 12" chipboard tiles you could puzzle together into the battlefield of your choice - something that's boardgame thickness and folds away for easy storage. Hell, a "battlefield in a box", made of cardboard and boardgame tiles would be a great idea, I think and would be something I'd easily buy into to cover (multiple) 4' X 6' tables, especially if it wasn't just the "mat" but fold up ruins, wrecks and other items that all fit into a neat box on the shelf when I was finished.

Yeah, I was thinking something similar, maybe 2x3 tho, but 12squ would be fine.

Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.

The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.

The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.

The point is that the product could have been useful for other games and therefore a more appealing purpose if it was a standard 24x24 size, but instead it's an awkward 22x30 that will see zero use anywhere else and zero additional sales.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Who cares? It's packaged with 22x30, but you can play on a bigger one if you want. Nothing's stopping you. Kill Team is Kill Team, not 40k.

The main priority of the expansions is a cheap(er) collection of terrain and some extra rules - not for a sheet of cardboard.

The point is that the product could have been useful for other games and therefore a more appealing purpose if it was a standard 24x24 size, but instead it's an awkward 22x30 that will see zero use anywhere else and zero additional sales.

Demonstrably flase. Hyperbole again.

We've already had people state they plan to buy and use the Kill Zone sets for 40k. Some people aren't fussed about hitting 6x4.

Now it might have had greater additional sales sure, but let's keep it reasonable.