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Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

Fluff and soup are not mutually exclusive. The lore is full of tails of Guardsmen fighting alongside Marines and such.

Pure mono-faction lists aren't all that fluffy tbh. I suppose you could do mono-guard or mono-CWE and have it be fluffy but chaos is inherently a hodgepodge and there's almost always at least some guardsman around when space marines are doin stuff.

GK would also likely be a mono list from a fluff stand point. I base this on the premise that a 40K battle is only a small slice of the actual battlefield. Otherwise soup would be the default fluffy list since it would be almost unheard of for an Imperial Army to consist of only IG or SM.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
GK would also likely be a mono list from a fluff stand point. I base this on the premise that a 40K battle is only a small slice of the actual battlefield. Otherwise soup would be the default fluffy list since it would be almost unheard of for an Imperial Army to consist of only IG or SM.

Not to mention that the GKs are sometimes known to murderise allies after the battle if they see proof of daemons! Not exactly jolly cooperation, but that's grimdark for you.

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

All of my imperial forces are painted in the same color scheme so they always match my SoB. Roberta Guilliman is red with fleur de lis as well as my raven guard aggressors. So... I soup all day long while looking at a visually cohesive army.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
GK would also likely be a mono list from a fluff stand point. I base this on the premise that a 40K battle is only a small slice of the actual battlefield. Otherwise soup would be the default fluffy list since it would be almost unheard of for an Imperial Army to consist of only IG or SM.

No, GK could work with Guard, you'd just have to then have to hand the Guard half to your opponent at the end of the game while you try to eliminate the witnessess as the GK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deviantduck wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

All of my imperial forces are painted in the same color scheme so they always match my SoB. Roberta Guilliman is red with fleur de lis as well as my raven guard aggressors. So... I soup all day long while looking at a visually cohesive army.

My trick for that is usually using a spot color that is on every model somewhere to tie the army together visually, but that works too!

Personally I like allies, mechanically though it needs some work. First off, Guard should be able to replace their Regiment with different words to ally with Tau and Chaos (and probably Eldar too), and secondly CP needs to not be tied to the list building stage. Give us CP every turn as a mechanic instead and this game would be a lot less bs by nature (and restrict relics to your warlord's detachment).

I think soup lists are actually fluffier than non soup.

Fight me.

So, no SoB + GK jokes? How disappointing.

Stux wrote:
Fluff and soup are not mutually exclusive. The lore is full of tails of Guardsmen fighting alongside Marines and such.

Yeah, those 32 Guardsmen get around a bit don't they...?

 Grimtuff wrote:

Stux wrote:
Fluff and soup are not mutually exclusive. The lore is full of tails of Guardsmen fighting alongside Marines and such.

Yeah, those 32 Guardsmen get around a bit don't they...?

Two of them carry the ends of Caito Sicarius' cape to keep it from touching the dirt, the rest carry his ego.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Stux wrote:
Fluff and soup are not mutually exclusive. The lore is full of tails of Guardsmen fighting alongside Marines and such.

Yeah, those 32 Guardsmen get around a bit don't they...?

They certainly do! One platoon of guardsman is about the minimum, I'd say, to be fluffy. If smaller units than platoon-size showed up, that's probably unfluffy. But I could see a platoon being detached for a special mission, or being cohesive enough to follow through while the rest of their company fled, or whathaveyou.

 deviantduck wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

All of my imperial forces are painted in the same color scheme so they always match my SoB. Roberta Guilliman is red with fleur de lis as well as my raven guard aggressors. So... I soup all day long while looking at a visually cohesive army.

I intended to do this, but by the time I was moving on from marines to Guard I really needed to paint with a different palette!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

Stux wrote:
Fluff and soup are not mutually exclusive. The lore is full of tails of Guardsmen fighting alongside Marines and such.

Yeah, those 32 Guardsmen get around a bit don't they...?

I know you're being sarcastic, but it genuinely is (by happy coincidence) a pretty fluffy detachment of Guard that might well support a Marines force.

Sometime the optimal choice is also fluffy. As I say, not mutually exclusive.

Are the only 3 Shield Captains who know how to ride bikes in the entire Imperium fluffy too?

 Grimtuff wrote:
Are the only 3 Shield Captains who know how to ride bikes in the entire Imperium fluffy too?

Obviously I'm not saying every soup list is fluffy, that's absurd. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could equally ask if Guilliman sitting at the back next to a load of Razorbacks is fluffy, and there's no soup in that at all.

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

Me. I don't see myself ever running a soup list.

I also understand that i'm shooting myself in the foot by not doing it. Soup isn't going away because it's a marketing windfall for GW. It's also a huge game design win for them because it means they can be as lazy as they want and never actually provide an army with all the tools it needs to be a viable all-comers army.

"Grey Knights codex has deficiencies? No it doesn't! Grey Knights are find so long as they bring allies!"

phydaux wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

Me. I don't see myself ever running a soup list.

I also understand that i'm shooting myself in the foot by not doing it. Soup isn't going away because it's a marketing windfall for GW. It's also a huge game design win for them because it means they can be as lazy as they want and never actually provide an army with all the tools it needs to be a viable all-comers army.

"Grey Knights codex has deficiencies? No it doesn't! Grey Knights are find so long as they bring allies!"

Hah, well I'm an old fashioned sort who still struggles to get my head around the idea of GKs as a full on faction rather than a support unit anyway!

Stux wrote:

phydaux wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

Me. I don't see myself ever running a soup list.

I also understand that i'm shooting myself in the foot by not doing it. Soup isn't going away because it's a marketing windfall for GW. It's also a huge game design win for them because it means they can be as lazy as they want and never actually provide an army with all the tools it needs to be a viable all-comers army.

"Grey Knights codex has deficiencies? No it doesn't! Grey Knights are find so long as they bring allies!"

Hah, well I'm an old fashioned sort who still struggles to get my head around the idea of GKs as a full on faction rather than a support unit anyway!

The GK quote/joke was actually made by Reecius of FLG. I did say that GK mono-was insufficient but that it was OK since you really should be using allies with them anyway. I have been trying to stay mono with my GK but I just can't seem to do it and stay even mildly competitive. I'm hoping December brings the GK a nice set of presents in the form of new rules and a better point cost for models.

Aye, I think we're more generally hoping for a Terminator buff, which would help GKs more than anyone!

I have a drawer of Terminators I'd love to play but the few times I have brought them out in 8th they've been a massive liability :(

I prefer mono-faction armies and never play a soup army. Not a fluff reason, I just don't like doing it.

 dracpanzer wrote:
I prefer mono-faction armies and never play a soup army. Not a fluff reason, I just don't like doing it.

I'm the same to be honest. I feel like I'm watering down the flavor of "my dudes" in favor of a mechanical advantage.

That is, save for some very specific army choices (like Red Hunter marines who really should have an Inquisitor Warlord in my book), but those are pretty rare.

I leave the flavorful allies options for doubles games and Apoc.

I will say this again: Imperial soup is far more fluffy than Imperial Mono-faction.

I don't have the Imperial Guard Codex, but the Index list contains things like priests, engineseers, Imperial advisors, and a Master of the fleet. Guess what? That's Soup in it's infancy, and it's been there since rogue trader days.

People assume that those who play Imperial Soup do so for un-fluffy reasons.

Imperial Detachments can be monofaction. There is nothing unfluffy about multiple Imperial detachments from different factions working together. I'm very, very sick of people claiming there is.

You can argue that the Imperium has an unfair advantage because they have as many subfactions as they do- that is absolutely true. You can argue that it's not fluffy to include allied detachments from outside the Imperium in an Imperial army- that's also true.

But you absolutely cannot argue that it's unfluffy for marines and guard to fight side by side, or that Sisters can't fight alongside marines, or guard. So please, stop doing so.

For me, the biggest problem with GW is that they never let an edition go long enough to try developing any of the Xeno armies to the degree of development that the Imperium has seen.

If Kroot and Vespids became full armies, Tau could soup like the Imperium does. But there will never be enough time to do that, because everybody bitches so much that GW just rereleases all the stuff they've already developed with new rules instead of actually developing anything new.

I hope 8th is the last frickin edition of this game, If they have to release updated books that include their faq stuff at a later date, or redoo particularly weak dexes, that's okay, because it's not creating the need for a system wide overhaul that prevents development of under-served armies.

If GW decides to make 8th the last edition, in another five years, there could be a Badmoon army with it's own dex, a Blood Axe army with their own dex, etc.

There could be a codex reflecting a genestealer cult that infected the ork species, or the eldar species, with a whole range of models to reflect it.

There could be kroot and vespids. Then everybody could, if they wanted to, soup just like the imperium does, and it would be just as fluffy.

I like soup lists cause it allows me to only run units I like. There is typically 5ish units in each codex I am a fan of (look cool and have not gak rules), so souping let's me build more diverse armies with more combinations. I find lists with just one army boring...

The only con of souping for me is that I have to buy lots of codex's, so when you afk for a couple years and come back it's a ride awakening.

PenitentJake wrote:


But you absolutely cannot argue that it's unfluffy for marines and guard to fight side by side, or that Sisters can't fight alongside marines, or guard. So please, stop doing so.

Yes you can. At the scale 40k is at these "throw whatever gak you've got together" lists make no sense (in Epic they would, where you would have an IG army fighting alongside a SM army, unlike 40k where it's a couple of squads of Agressors (Raven Guard, natch. No other chapters use them) and 32 Guardsmen with 3 Custodes Shield captains on bikes. Yeah, totally fluffy. /s) the game is simply not large enough at the standard matched play size to represent it properly without it looking so threadbare it just looks utterly stupid.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I think soup lists are actually fluffier than non soup.

Fight me.

Okay. Why?

ballzonya wrote:
Is there anybody out there like me who would never run a soup list cause he likes his list fluffy and I love to see all the same army on the table. I dislike soup lists so much for the look and the reasoning but I feel everyone out there thinks its a good idea am I alone on this?

I personally don't like them. I love the look and feel of one cohesive army on the table. I also think that its healthier for the game but that's a different discussion

Blastaar wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I think soup lists are actually fluffier than non soup.

Fight me.

Okay. Why?

Because every novel I've ever read includes mentions of other forces arriving on one side or the other. Do you really want me to think back to the novel's I've read that include two Imperial or Chaos forces fighting together?

 Grimtuff wrote:
Yes you can. At the scale 40k is at these "throw whatever gak you've got together" lists make no sense (in Epic they would, where you would have an IG army fighting alongside a SM army, unlike 40k where it's a couple of squads of Agressors (Raven Guard, natch. No other chapters use them) and 32 Guardsmen with 3 Custodes Shield captains on bikes. Yeah, totally fluffy. /s) the game is simply not large enough at the standard matched play size to represent it properly without it looking so threadbare it just looks utterly stupid.

Agree.

In a 10k points quasi-Epic Scale game it would be fine. In a regular game around 1750-2k points, not really.
It doesn't look fluffy, it looks like a mess. You might get that if the main forces had been mangled and these remnants were all that's left, but that is hardly the usual situation. It doesn't turn up in the fluff very often.

We joined up for the X Crusade is different from "we turned up to the mini skirmish".

 Grimtuff wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:


But you absolutely cannot argue that it's unfluffy for marines and guard to fight side by side, or that Sisters can't fight alongside marines, or guard. So please, stop doing so.

Yes you can. At the scale 40k is at these "throw whatever gak you've got together" lists make no sense (in Epic they would, where you would have an IG army fighting alongside a SM army, unlike 40k where it's a couple of squads of Agressors (Raven Guard, natch. No other chapters use them) and 32 Guardsmen with 3 Custodes Shield captains on bikes. Yeah, totally fluffy. /s) the game is simply not large enough at the standard matched play size to represent it properly without it looking so threadbare it just looks utterly stupid.

Eh, you absolutely can justify it. All sorts of groups of people are brought together on smaller scales, just needs a little imagination to forge the narrative is all.

Sure, it's harder for some lists than others. 3 Shield Captains as you keep banging on about are more difficult. But please don't tar all soup with the same brush.

Maybe a company of Guardsmen have been holding out in a city and are seriously low on numbers. Just as they are about to be wiped out, the forward scouting group of Space Marines reach them and together they mount a valiant last stand, trying to hold out until the rest of the Marine company arrives.

PenitentJake wrote:
I will say this again: Imperial soup is far more fluffy than Imperial Mono-faction.

Marines being standard cannon fodder has always been my big gripe with the game in the past. Imperial soup is way more in line with the world I've experienced outside of the tabletop then what I saw from them in previous editions of the game.