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Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
No space marine can be called brave.
Courage means conquering your fears and risking yourself despite afraid.
A space marine is physically and mentally unable to feel fear thus they have no need to conquer it.
The average guardsman charging a daemon despite knowing that he will not survive for 10 seconds yet still charges is braver thenthen most space marines can ever imagine.
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
Ciaphas Cain, don't you read the reports of this extremely brave, valorous, and selfless hero of the Imperium? These reports are required recreational reading.
Guardsman, the Commissar requests that you 'just look at the flowers'.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
No space marine can be called brave.
Courage means conquering your fears and risking yourself despite afraid.
A space marine is physically and mentally unable to feel fear thus they have no need to conquer it.
The average guardsman charging a daemon despite knowing that he will not survive for 10 seconds yet still charges is braver thenthen most space marines can ever imagine.
Space marines still value their lives. The guardsmen that charge that daemon-prince are giving their life up, as is the space marines, not being fearful just makes it easier to function. Its more noble in the case of the guardsmen, but space marines still feel pain etc. They still go through extreme hardship like Alaric on the Daemonworld, where he was nearly broken. They don't feel fear in the same way but they fear in a way that they don't want to die or feel pain. Its impossible for Space Marines to be genuinely fearless if you read the lore, they just aren't effected by the same fight or flight response.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 18:10:38
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
No space marine can be called brave.
Courage means conquering your fears and risking yourself despite afraid.
A space marine is physically and mentally unable to feel fear thus they have no need to conquer it.
The average guardsman charging a daemon despite knowing that he will not survive for 10 seconds yet still charges is braver thenthen most space marines can ever imagine.
I'd argue Heresy era Marines can be brave.
Ollanius Pius before the Perpetual change is the undeniable bravest IMO. He saw the strongest individual he can imagine fighting and losing to Horus Lupercal and what does he do? He shoots at him with his lasgun. It's like a medieval peasant charging a titan with a spoon.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
No space marine can be called brave.
Courage means conquering your fears and risking yourself despite afraid.
A space marine is physically and mentally unable to feel fear thus they have no need to conquer it.
The average guardsman charging a daemon despite knowing that he will not survive for 10 seconds yet still charges is braver thenthen most space marines can ever imagine.
I'd argue Heresy era Marines can be brave.
Ollanius Pius before the Perpetual change is the undeniable bravest IMO. He saw the strongest individual he can imagine fighting and losing to Horus Lupercal and what does he do? He shoots at him with his lasgun. It's like a medieval peasant charging a titan with a spoon.
Exactly like Polux teleporting onto Perturabo's flagship to kill him.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
No space marine can be called brave.
Courage means conquering your fears and risking yourself despite afraid.
A space marine is physically and mentally unable to feel fear thus they have no need to conquer it.
The average guardsman charging a daemon despite knowing that he will not survive for 10 seconds yet still charges is braver thenthen most space marines can ever imagine.
I'd argue Heresy era Marines can be brave.
Ollanius Pius before the Perpetual change is the undeniable bravest IMO. He saw the strongest individual he can imagine fighting and losing to Horus Lupercal and what does he do? He shoots at him with his lasgun. It's like a medieval peasant charging a titan with a spoon.
Exactly like Polux teleporting onto Perturabo's flagship to kill him.
Not really. One gets to be a superhuman with incredibly well made weaponry. He has little chance of success but compared to Ollanius he's doing great.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
If Ollanius Pius wasn't retconned to be a perpetual, I would agree with him probably having the biggest balls. Other than him, I would say Tuska the Daemonkilla for charging into the eye of terror just because he had so much fun fighting off daemons when they boarded his ship. The best part is even after being bested by a khornate daemon prince (after smashing through several daemon worlds) his last act before dying was reach between its legs and "make a gesture of his own" with his power klaw.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Kharn would be my number one. Always fights insurmountable foes by himself. Took on a saint, black Legions bezerkers, Abaddon and a bloodthirster all by himself, even getting the bloodthirster to praise him, though I would concede that he may be more insane than brave lol. But my 2nd is either the obvious guardsmen that stood in-between the Emperor and Horus or the auxilla that stabbed Alpharius in the side puncturing his torso.
No space marine can be called brave.
Courage means conquering your fears and risking yourself despite afraid.
A space marine is physically and mentally unable to feel fear thus they have no need to conquer it.
The average guardsman charging a daemon despite knowing that he will not survive for 10 seconds yet still charges is braver thenthen most space marines can ever imagine.
I'd argue Heresy era Marines can be brave.
Ollanius Pius before the Perpetual change is the undeniable bravest IMO. He saw the strongest individual he can imagine fighting and losing to Horus Lupercal and what does he do? He shoots at him with his lasgun. It's like a medieval peasant charging a titan with a spoon.
Exactly like Polux teleporting onto Perturabo's flagship to kill him.
Not really. One gets to be a superhuman with incredibly well made weaponry. He has little chance of success but compared to Ollanius he's doing great.
Yes really, I said its 'like' that, obviously Pius had more balls. I already said in my OP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 18:51:28
Marines by default have less balls, figuratively and literally (sterile). They're superhuman and have some of the best arms and armour in the galaxy, on top of which they are mentally and psychologically conditioned to not feel the effects of fear on the battlefield - the only reason balls of any magnitude would be needed.
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Re-avaluating happens when you are proven wrong and since you still hold the position that you are right, neither of us are doing any of that. They are nice buzzwords that sound good, but that's about it. The argument isn't about the 'precise parameters' of ball size, you are saying that bravery is not a concept that Astartes are familiar with, don't change the argument and stop trying to sound intelligent, its not working and you just sound ridiculous.
Okay, so you're not going to play ball in order to "save face" or whatever stupid reasoning on an annonymous internet forum. So, seeing as all you're interested in doing thus far is try to insult and belittle me because of my diction (the classic, "I can't attack the actual content of what they're saying, so I'll just attack the way they're saying it, instead"), let's start again, shall we? Okay, here we go then...
Hi TC, cool topic. I was wondering, what do you mean by "biggest balls"? Can you give me an example situation or scenario? Your description of Khan's feats is pretty cool, but like you said maybe more descriptive of insanity-driven bloodlust and raw martial prowess, rather than straight up bravery. Is bravery an important factor? Is that what you mean by "biggest balls", prehaps? Anyway, let me know, okay? Cheers.
Spoiler:
I hope my diction is now more to your liking, and there aren't too many "ridiculous buzzwords" in there distracting you, or whatever...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 20:40:47
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Re-avaluating happens when you are proven wrong and since you still hold the position that you are right, neither of us are doing any of that. They are nice buzzwords that sound good, but that's about it. The argument isn't about the 'precise parameters' of ball size, you are saying that bravery is not a concept that Astartes are familiar with, don't change the argument and stop trying to sound intelligent, its not working and you just sound ridiculous.
Okay, so you're not going to play ball in order to "save face" or whatever stupid reasoning on an annonymous internet forum. So, seeing as all you're interested in doing thus far is try to insult and belittle me because of my diction (the classic, "I can't attack the actual content of what they're saying, so I'll just attack the way they're saying it, instead"), let's start again, shall we? Okay, here we go then...
Hi TC, cool topic. I was wondering, what do you mean by "biggest balls"? Can you give me an example situation or scenario? Your description of Khan's feats is pretty cool, but like you said maybe more descriptive of insanity-driven bloodlust and raw martial prowess, rather than straight up bravery. Is bravery an important factor? Is that what you mean by "biggest balls", prehaps? Anyway, let me know, okay? Cheers.
Spoiler:
I hope my diction is now more to your liking, and there aren't too many "ridiculous buzzwords" in there distracting you, or whatever...
You are the one that started condescending me, so yeah I'll belittle you if you are doing that. You are the one that stopped trying to 'attack the actual content' of what I said and I already called you out for that as you started with the re-re-re lol The biggest balls means just that. Bravery is a factor, you are arguing that Astartes don't have bravery. though. Your diction is only a problem if you are trying to be condescending. They weren't distracting me, they were just used pointlessly to try and win points without actually trying to prove me wrong. People use pointlessly complex language to try and discourage less intelligent people instead of actually proving your point, but that's not the case with me and I called you out for doing that, because there was no point is using those words, they weren't relevant and they didn't add anything to your argument.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 20:59:21
I'm gonna agree that Kharn never struck me as having big balls, the guy's just insane and likely somewhat sucidal.
as for biggest balls I'm gonna present a somewhat contriversal opinion. Cawl. let's face it, even WITH a Primarch backing you what he's done is pretty ballsy.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: I'm gonna agree that Kharn never struck me as having big balls, the guy's just insane and likely somewhat sucidal.
as for biggest balls I'm gonna present a somewhat contriversal opinion. Cawl. let's face it, even WITH a Primarch backing you what he's done is pretty ballsy.
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
Sevatar has some pretty big ones. Not a lot of Space Marines could talk back to their Primarch or call him on bs. Sevatar does so and gives zero feths. He gets double credit for doing it to a Primarch able to inspire genuine fear in not just Space Marines, but also in another Primarch, Rogal Dorn.
Also, there was that one time he needed to get onto the Dark Angels flagship, so he mag-locked his boots onto a fighter and had it fly straight into the Invincible Reason's hanger. Let me repeat that. He mag-locked to the top of a fighter, and had it dodge AA fire and fly right into the hanger of the enemy flagship.
Huge stones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 21:09:36
EmpNortonII wrote: Sevatar has some pretty big ones. Not a lot of Space Marines could talk back to their Primarch or call him on bs. Sevatar does so and gives zero feths. He gets double credit for doing it to a Primarch able to inspire genuine fear in not just Space Marines, but also in another Primarch, Rogal Dorn.
Also, there was that one time he needed to get onto the Dark Angels flagship, so he mag-locked his boots onto a fighter and had it fly straight into the Invincible Reason's hanger. Let me repeat that. He mag-locked to the top of a fighter, and had it dodge AA fire and fly right into the hanger of the enemy flagship.
Huge stones.
Yeah I always loved the author of death to the false emperor. They should have called him savager.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 21:25:35
Delvarus Centurion wrote: You are the one that started condescending me, so yeah I'll belittle you if you are doing that. You are the one that stopped trying to 'attack the actual content' of what I said and I already called you out for that as you started with the re-re-re lol.
Nope. All I said in this topic was Yarrick probably has a big pair and that Astartes by default have smaller balls than non-Astertes. Nothing condescending towards you whatsoever. It was you that then called my post nonsense and then things went from there.
The biggest balls means just that. Bravery is a factor, you are arguing that Astartes don't have bravery. though.
Astartes by default have a significantly lower need for bravery than non-Astartes, if any at all. It's inherent in their very nature, as established in the lore of the setting. Which means, by default they are required to be less brave, or have smaller balls, than non-Astartes. It's really that simple. I honestly don't know what else or how else to say it. If you find that argument and that wording condescending... sorry, I guess.
Your diction is only a problem if you are trying to be condescending. They weren't distracting me, they were just used pointlessly to try and win points without actually trying to prove me wrong. People use pointlessly complex language to try and discourage less intelligent people instead of actually proving your point, but that's not the case with me and I called you out for doing that, because there was no point is using those words, they weren't relevant and they didn't add anything to your argument.
Well I wouldn't know anything about all that. All I see is someone attacking the form of my posts, rather than countering the argument within my (initial) posts. I really doubt you actually believe there's anything "complex" in anything I've said. I'm pretty sure you could follow it perfectly well, you just chose not to oblige and to attack the words used anyway, in lieu of my actual argument. *shrug*
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
Delvarus Centurion wrote: You are the one that started condescending me, so yeah I'll belittle you if you are doing that. You are the one that stopped trying to 'attack the actual content' of what I said and I already called you out for that as you started with the re-re-re lol.
Nope. All I said in this topic was Yarrick probably has a big pair and that Astartes by default have smaller balls than non-Astertes. Nothing condescending towards you whatsoever. It was you that then called my post nonsense and then things went from there.
The biggest balls means just that. Bravery is a factor, you are arguing that Astartes don't have bravery. though.
Astartes by default have a significantly lower need for bravery than non-Astartes, if any at all. It's inherent in their very nature, as established in the lore of the setting. Which means, by default they are required to be less brave, or have smaller balls, than non-Astartes. It's really that simple. I honestly don't know what else or how else to say it. If you find that argument and that wording condescending... sorry, I guess.
Your diction is only a problem if you are trying to be condescending. They weren't distracting me, they were just used pointlessly to try and win points without actually trying to prove me wrong. People use pointlessly complex language to try and discourage less intelligent people instead of actually proving your point, but that's not the case with me and I called you out for doing that, because there was no point is using those words, they weren't relevant and they didn't add anything to your argument.
Well I wouldn't know anything about all that. All I see is someone attacking the form of my posts, rather than countering the argument within my (initial) posts. I really doubt you actually believe there's anything "complex" in anything I've said. I'm pretty sure you could follow it perfectly well, you just chose not to oblige and to attack the words used anyway, in lieu of my actual argument. *shrug*
Saying that is nonsense is not intentionally insulting you, I said your argument is nonsense, I wasn't implying you were stupid or anything. You need to develop thicker skin. "You appear to not understand the context of your own topic, then. Maybe you should re-evaluate, re-establish and then re-state the exact context and precise parameters of how the size of an individuals balls are being measured" this is very condescending.
"Astartes by default have a significantly lower need for bravery than non-Astartes" yeah if you said that in the first place I'd agree with you, but you said they unequivocally are not brave, which now I think you'd concede that that was 'nonsense', I wasn't insulting you. We are all wrong at times and we all talk nonsense at times. I was attacking you because you were being condescending. I did counter your argument but then you said this "You appear to not understand the context of your own topic, then. Maybe you should re-evaluate, re-establish and then re-state the exact context and precise parameters of how the size of an individuals balls are being measured. Perhaps then we can all move forwards from the same page?" you were the one that started attacking rather than proving your point, there is nothing useful in saying this other than to attacking me saying I don't understand the context or my own topic, which is a baseless statement, there is nothing here to counter, this is just you attacking the form of my 'form' rather than countering my point. Seriously re-read the thread. It wasn't complex in the sense that it was hard to grasp, it was just merely more complex than it needed to be as you weren't actually saying anything as it wasn't relative because I never even conceded I was wrong in the first place.. I was an ass you were an ass, I say we just forget about it and water under the bridge etc.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 22:11:39
I swear to an uncaring universe, I will slap you both. Stop it.
The owner of the biggest balls in 40k is Abbadon. He is fething about with all 4 of the setting's most powerful entities.
1 God wants to torture you for all eternity? Worst thing ever, right? NO! 4 gods want to torture you for all eternity in different ways. Boom. That takes some serious stones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 22:21:27
greatbigtree wrote: I swear to an uncaring universe, I will slap you both. Stop it.
The owner of the biggest balls in 40k is Abbadon. He is fething about with all 4 of the setting's most powerful entities.
1 God wants to torture you for all eternity? Worst thing ever, right? NO! 4 gods want to torture you for all eternity in different ways. Boom. That takes some serious stones.
He does fight all his challenges to his throne when he could have an underling to do it, so yeah I respect Abaddon for that.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Saying that is nonsense is not intentionally insulting you, I said your argument is nonsense, I wasn't implying you were stupid or anything. You need to develop thicker skin.
Nor was my direct reply to you that it wasn't nonsense and that it's in the lore.
"You appear to not understand the context of your own topic, then. Maybe you should re-evaluate, re-establish and then re-state the exact context and precise parameters of how the size of an individuals balls are being measured" this is very condescending.
Only because you chose to take it that way, no doubt because you took exception to the words I used and how I used them. I asked a request for clarification. If you took that as a personal attack, that's on you, not me. I'm not the one here who needs a thicker skin.
"Astartes by default have a significantly lower need for bravery than non-Astartes" yeah if you said that in the first place I'd agree with you, but you said they unequivocally are not brave, which now I think you'd concede that that was 'nonsense',
But it's not nonsense, it's directly in line with the point me and other posters were making from the beginning. Astartes do not even conceive of or experience the concepts of "fear" and "bravery" the way normal mortals do. They're indoctrinated as part of their manufacture and training to be so. They just charge in and fight the horrors of the galaxy without thinking twice about it, because they are duty-bound, because the fear they do feel is that of mission failure, of what would happen if they didn't do it. You don't need balls to do that, just legs.
I wasn't insulting you. I was attacking you because you were being condescending. I did counter your argument but then you said this "You appear to not understand the context of your own topic, then. Maybe you should re-evaluate, re-establish and then re-state the exact context and precise parameters of how the size of an individuals balls are being measured. Perhaps then we can all move forwards from the same page?" you were the one that started attacking rather than proving your point, there is nothing useful in saying this other than to attacking me saying I don't understand the context or my own topic, which is a baseless statement, there is nothing here to counter, this is just you attacking the form of my 'form' rather than countering my point. Seriously re-read the thread. It wasn't complex in the sense that it was hard to grasp, it was just merely more complex than it needed to be as you weren't actually saying anything as it wasn't relative because I never even conceded I was wrong in the first place..
Again, only because you chose to interpret it that way. If you'd read my words and took them at face-value, you may have seen them for the request for further clarification and a re-framing of your OP that is was, and not a condescention/personal attack. I genuinely considered the possibility we were on different pages and talking about different things/concepts in order for you to call out my initial posts/argument as "nonsense".
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
Delvarus Centurion wrote: Saying that is nonsense is not intentionally insulting you, I said your argument is nonsense, I wasn't implying you were stupid or anything. You need to develop thicker skin.
Nor was my direct reply to you that it wasn't nonsense and that it's in the lore.
"You appear to not understand the context of your own topic, then. Maybe you should re-evaluate, re-establish and then re-state the exact context and precise parameters of how the size of an individuals balls are being measured" this is very condescending.
Only because you chose to take it that way, no doubt because you took exception to the words I used and how I used them. I asked a request for clarification. If you took that as a personal attack, that's on you, not me. I'm not the one here who needs a thicker skin.
"Astartes by default have a significantly lower need for bravery than non-Astartes" yeah if you said that in the first place I'd agree with you, but you said they unequivocally are not brave, which now I think you'd concede that that was 'nonsense',
But it's not nonsense, it's directly in line with the point me and other posters were making from the beginning. Astartes do not even conceive of or experience the concepts of "fear" and "bravery" the way normal mortals do. They're indoctrinated as part of their manufacture and training to be so. They just charge in and fight the horrors of the galaxy without thinking twice about it, because they are duty-bound, because the fear they do feel is that of mission failure, of what would happen if they didn't do it. You don't need balls to do that, just legs.
I wasn't insulting you. I was attacking you because you were being condescending. I did counter your argument but then you said this "You appear to not understand the context of your own topic, then. Maybe you should re-evaluate, re-establish and then re-state the exact context and precise parameters of how the size of an individuals balls are being measured. Perhaps then we can all move forwards from the same page?" you were the one that started attacking rather than proving your point, there is nothing useful in saying this other than to attacking me saying I don't understand the context or my own topic, which is a baseless statement, there is nothing here to counter, this is just you attacking the form of my 'form' rather than countering my point. Seriously re-read the thread. It wasn't complex in the sense that it was hard to grasp, it was just merely more complex than it needed to be as you weren't actually saying anything as it wasn't relative because I never even conceded I was wrong in the first place..
Again, only because you chose to interpret it that way. If you'd read my words and took them at face-value, you may have seen them for the request for further clarification and a re-framing of your OP that is was, and not a condescention/personal attack. I genuinely considered the possibility we were on different pages and talking about different things/concepts in order for you to call out my initial posts/argument as "nonsense".
"Yet I wasn’t prepared for the reality of war. This wasn’t some urban engagement in city ruins – a
firefight between soldiers exchanging gunfire from the security of cover, where perhaps one side
boasted greater weaponry than the other. That took bravery, patience, concentration… But this was
open war, a pitched battle, demanding greater savagery, greater strength, greater courage, and calling
upon greater depths of feeling. One couldn’t enter into such a battle between clashing armies without
being certain of one’s death." Emperors gift
'An abomination?' said Eidolon. 'Tarvitz, you are brave and disciplined, and your warriors
respect you, but you do not have the imagination to see where this work can lead us. You must realise
that the Legion's supremacy is of greater importance than any mortal squeamishness,’ - Horus Rising
"'We will sing songs of your bravery upon your return, but for now, let us drink and feast to the
doom of the Laer,' said Fulgrim. The Phoenix Gate was flung open as servants and menials entered,
bringing platters of hot meat and case after case of victory wine." - Fulgrim
"Septus Thoic and Ignatius Numen stood at the end of the wide corridor. Both were warriors who
had seen the very worst the galaxy could throw at them and had spat back in its face. Fellow
survivors of Isstvan V, they had been amongst the very first Iron Hands to make planetfall, marching
alongside the best and bravest of the X Legion. Like all those who had escaped the massacre, they had
cut their warplate with the names of the fallen, but these warriors had a name acid-etched on their
shoulder guards that marked them out as special even in a brotherhood of remarkable warriors." - Angel exterminatus
"‘We have fought hard and we have fought bravely, and another world is brought from the darkness
of superstition and division into the light of the Emperor’s clarity and unity,’ he told his warriors. ‘It
is with honour to the fallen and respect to all who stand here that I can declare the Isstvan system
brought to compliance!’ - Deliverance lost
". I am sure dissenting voices were raised when you received your orders. The Dark Angels are too
brave and resolute a Legion to accept such a command quietly. As Shang Khan said, it is a weighty
duty and a hard one for Astartes to bear. We are warriors, all of us, the Emperor’s finest. We should
be roaming the galaxy, making war on our enemies. Instead, we find ourselves forced to act as guard
dogs.’ - Descent of Angels
"Anger at the unthinking violence Russ and the Custodes hadunleashed against them.
Anger at the death of so many brave warriors who deserved better.Anger at how easily
he had allowed himself to turn away from asking questions that needed to be asked.But
most of all, anger at Magnus for leaving them to face their doom alone" - Thousand Sons
The lore doesn't state that they aren't brave.
whatever, I'm done.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 22:52:49
"Yet I wasn’t prepared for the reality of war. This wasn’t some urban engagement in city ruins – a
firefight between soldiers exchanging gunfire from the security of cover, where perhaps one side
boasted greater weaponry than the other. That took bravery, patience, concentration… But this was
open war, a pitched battle, demanding greater savagery, greater strength, greater courage, and calling
upon greater depths of feeling. One couldn’t enter into such a battle between clashing armies without
being certain of one’s death." Emperors gift
'An abomination?' said Eidolon. 'Tarvitz, you are brave and disciplined, and your warriors
respect you, but you do not have the imagination to see where this work can lead us. You must realise
that the Legion's supremacy is of greater importance than any mortal squeamishness,’ - Horus Rising
"'We will sing songs of your bravery upon your return, but for now, let us drink and feast to the
doom of the Laer,' said Fulgrim. The Phoenix Gate was flung open as servants and menials entered,
bringing platters of hot meat and case after case of victory wine." - Fulgrim
"Septus Thoic and Ignatius Numen stood at the end of the wide corridor. Both were warriors who
had seen the very worst the galaxy could throw at them and had spat back in its face. Fellow
survivors of Isstvan V, they had been amongst the very first Iron Hands to make planetfall, marching
alongside the best and bravest of the X Legion. Like all those who had escaped the massacre, they had
cut their warplate with the names of the fallen, but these warriors had a name acid-etched on their
shoulder guards that marked them out as special even in a brotherhood of remarkable warriors." - Angel exterminatus
"‘We have fought hard and we have fought bravely, and another world is brought from the darkness
of superstition and division into the light of the Emperor’s clarity and unity,’ he told his warriors. ‘It
is with honour to the fallen and respect to all who stand here that I can declare the Isstvan system
brought to compliance!’ - Deliverance lost
". I am sure dissenting voices were raised when you received your orders. The Dark Angels are too
brave and resolute a Legion to accept such a command quietly. As Shang Khan said, it is a weighty
duty and a hard one for Astartes to bear. We are warriors, all of us, the Emperor’s finest. We should
be roaming the galaxy, making war on our enemies. Instead, we find ourselves forced to act as guard
dogs.’ - Descent of Angels
"Anger at the unthinking violence Russ and the Custodes hadunleashed against them.
Anger at the death of so many brave warriors who deserved better.Anger at how easily
he had allowed himself to turn away from asking questions that needed to be asked.But
most of all, anger at Magnus for leaving them to face their doom alone" - Thousand Sons
The lore doesn't state that they aren't brave.
whatever, I'm done.
That's because the lore is mostly written by and for mortal mankind's perspective. Of course what they do is brave. I never said otherwise. But, the point stands; regular, ordinary, mortal non-Astartes have to do all that and face what they face right beside them... without being themselves superhumans in super armour with super weapons. That requires, by default, by inherent nature, greater courage, more bravery, and bigger balls. We know, without question, that Astartes, as part of their manufacture and training, undergo mental and psychological conditioning that makes them no longer human in terms of what they think and how they feel. They no longer feel fear the same way mortals do and therefore no longer need bravery the same way mortals do. It's really that simple. Again, I don't know what else or how else to say it. It's pure, objective, factual lore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/11 23:47:30
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
"Yet I wasn’t prepared for the reality of war. This wasn’t some urban engagement in city ruins – a
firefight between soldiers exchanging gunfire from the security of cover, where perhaps one side
boasted greater weaponry than the other. That took bravery, patience, concentration… But this was
open war, a pitched battle, demanding greater savagery, greater strength, greater courage, and calling
upon greater depths of feeling. One couldn’t enter into such a battle between clashing armies without
being certain of one’s death." Emperors gift
'An abomination?' said Eidolon. 'Tarvitz, you are brave and disciplined, and your warriors
respect you, but you do not have the imagination to see where this work can lead us. You must realise
that the Legion's supremacy is of greater importance than any mortal squeamishness,’ - Horus Rising
"'We will sing songs of your bravery upon your return, but for now, let us drink and feast to the
doom of the Laer,' said Fulgrim. The Phoenix Gate was flung open as servants and menials entered,
bringing platters of hot meat and case after case of victory wine." - Fulgrim
"Septus Thoic and Ignatius Numen stood at the end of the wide corridor. Both were warriors who
had seen the very worst the galaxy could throw at them and had spat back in its face. Fellow
survivors of Isstvan V, they had been amongst the very first Iron Hands to make planetfall, marching
alongside the best and bravest of the X Legion. Like all those who had escaped the massacre, they had
cut their warplate with the names of the fallen, but these warriors had a name acid-etched on their
shoulder guards that marked them out as special even in a brotherhood of remarkable warriors." - Angel exterminatus
"‘We have fought hard and we have fought bravely, and another world is brought from the darkness
of superstition and division into the light of the Emperor’s clarity and unity,’ he told his warriors. ‘It
is with honour to the fallen and respect to all who stand here that I can declare the Isstvan system
brought to compliance!’ - Deliverance lost
". I am sure dissenting voices were raised when you received your orders. The Dark Angels are too
brave and resolute a Legion to accept such a command quietly. As Shang Khan said, it is a weighty
duty and a hard one for Astartes to bear. We are warriors, all of us, the Emperor’s finest. We should
be roaming the galaxy, making war on our enemies. Instead, we find ourselves forced to act as guard
dogs.’ - Descent of Angels
"Anger at the unthinking violence Russ and the Custodes hadunleashed against them.
Anger at the death of so many brave warriors who deserved better.Anger at how easily
he had allowed himself to turn away from asking questions that needed to be asked.But
most of all, anger at Magnus for leaving them to face their doom alone" - Thousand Sons
The lore doesn't state that they aren't brave.
whatever, I'm done.
That's because the lore is mostly written by and for mortal mankind's perspective. Of course that they do is brave. I never said otherwise. But, the point stands; regular, ordinary, mortal non-Astartes have to do all that and face what they face right beside them... without being themselves superhumans in super armour with super weapons. That requires, by default, by inherent nature, greater courage, more bravery, and bigger balls. We know, without question, that Astartes, as part of their manufacture and training, undergo mental and psychological conditioning that makes them no longer human in terms of what they think and how they feel. They no longer feel fear the same way mortals do and therefore no longer need bravery the same way mortals do. It's really that simple. Again, I don't know what else or how else to say it. It's pure, objective, factual lore.
You called my reasoning and then tried to call it quits, give me a break. I genuinely wanted to call it quits, I did it without insulting you, being magnanimous. I'm not sure if you just have a very bad memory or your mind just creates a narrative that suits you.
You did say otherwise, you said the unequivocally don't feel fear. ""Bravery" is a pretty null and void concept in the Space Marine's psyche. To them it is simply one's duty to stand and fight in defiance of the Emperor's enemies. They just... do it. Because that's their purpose. Non-Marines, though? They actually have to summon the courage to do the same. It's pretty simple and self-explanatory" your quote. You weren't saying that they don't need it in the same way as humans. It isn't null and void, Astartes bravery is prevalent through the lore. That you are arguing in the face of evidence and are changing your argument, means I can no longer argue with you.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 23:58:47
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) 
