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The new FAQ for the rulebook states:
Page 177 – Moving
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.’

So, does that mean that in the charge phase flyers now cannot fly over the top of other units to get at what's behind them?

 Uther wrote:
The new FAQ for the rulebook states:
Page 177 – Moving
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.’

So, does that mean that in the charge phase flyers now cannot fly over the top of other units to get at what's behind them?

Correct. It seems that you can no longer move over other models in the Charge Phase.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Correct. It seems that you can no longer move over other models in the Charge Phase.

Bubble wrap is back

Does anyone know where the rule about flyers ignoring the vertical component of any move was given? Was it in one of the FAQs or Erratas?

 Uther wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Correct. It seems that you can no longer move over other models in the Charge Phase.

Bubble wrap is back

Does anyone know where the rule about flyers ignoring the vertical component of any move was given? Was it in one of the FAQs or Erratas?

It was in the BRB FAQ and only related to charging. They might have changed it I haven't checked yet.

 Uther wrote:

Does anyone know where the rule about flyers ignoring the vertical component of any move was given? Was it in one of the FAQs or Erratas?

FAQ April 2018.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It was in the BRB FAQ and only related to charging. They might have changed it I haven't checked yet.

Yes it was, and it only applied to charges, never movement, I think I messed that one up....

This was in the old FAQ and is now longer in the new FAQ.
Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical distances when making a charge move. Note though that the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to declare the charge in the first place.

 Uther wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It was in the BRB FAQ and only related to charging. They might have changed it I haven't checked yet.

Yes it was, and it only applied to charges, never movement, I think I messed that one up....

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical distances when making a charge move. Note though that the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to declare the charge in the first place.

Fair enough, so they still get to ignore vertical distance when charging but can't ignore bubble wrap. GW Logic at its finest!

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Fair enough, so they still get to ignore vertical distance when charging but can't ignore bubble wrap. GW Logic at its finest!

My bad, that quote was from the previous version of the FAQ and is entirely gone from the new one. Flyers now never get to ignore the vertical component of a move or charge.

 Uther wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Fair enough, so they still get to ignore vertical distance when charging but can't ignore bubble wrap. GW Logic at its finest!

My bad, that quote was from the previous version of the FAQ and is entirely gone from the new one. Flyers now never get to ignore the vertical component of a move or charge.

Sure they ignore the vertical distance in the movement phase, but not in the charge phase.

 p5freak wrote:
Sure they ignore the vertical distance in the movement phase, but not in the charge phase.

Do they ignore it in the movement phase? I've convinced myself that they never did, that I've been making a mistake. Yes they can fly over it but if they fly to the top of a 10" building that that's going to be at least a 10" move measured diagonally.

All the new FAQ changes the rules for Flyers to say is "If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there."

Is there something else I've forgotten? Which is quite possible actually...

 Uther wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Sure they ignore the vertical distance in the movement phase, but not in the charge phase.

Do they ignore it in the movement phase? I've convinced myself that they never did, that I've been making a mistake. Yes they can fly over it but if they fly to the top of a 10" building that that's going to be at least a 10" move measured diagonally.

All the new FAQ changes the rules for Flyers to say is "If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there."

Is there something else I've forgotten? Which is quite possible actually...

Oh well, sigh, we are now back at the point where we were before the april 2018 FAQ. What is the distance a FLY unit has to move when it wants to go on top of terrain from the ground ? Is it horizontal plus vertical distance, or is it diagonal distance ? What do i have to roll for the charge ? Horizontal plus vertical, or diagonal distance ?

guys dosent in the brb says that in the charge phase all the movement rules apply? so flyers can still charge over units.

SIKAMIKA wrote:
guys dosent in the brb says that in the charge phase all the movement rules apply? so flyers can still charge over units.

No, it doesn't say that in the BRB in any shape or form.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
guys dosent in the brb says that in the charge phase all the movement rules apply? so flyers can still charge over units.

No, it doesn't say that in the BRB in any shape or form.

so then why could flyers charge over other units before? was there a rule for it?

SIKAMIKA wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
guys dosent in the brb says that in the charge phase all the movement rules apply? so flyers can still charge over units.

No, it doesn't say that in the BRB in any shape or form.

so then why could flyers charge over other units before? was there a rule for it?

Because before the rule for FLY didn't say "movement phase". Now it does.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Uther wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It was in the BRB FAQ and only related to charging. They might have changed it I haven't checked yet.

Yes it was, and it only applied to charges, never movement, I think I messed that one up....

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical distances when making a charge move. Note though that the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to declare the charge in the first place.

Fair enough, so they still get to ignore vertical distance when charging but can't ignore bubble wrap. GW Logic at its finest!

Well if you fly over other units, you expose your groin from fire from below, who in their right mind would do that?!

So just so I have it straight in my head now :

arrive from DS 9" diagonal away from a unit atop a 6" tall bastion.. the charge distance is more than likely at least 12" (across and then up)

in fact this makes charges onto some taller buildings impossible, as even if one model from a unit makes it, he can't charge out of coherency so if anyone were unable to make the distance then the one that could is dragged back down.

you cannot charge across a unit to charge a unit behind a screen

you cannot charge a single unit and get behind that unit at all (to attack at the back rank) unless you run all around them and pile-in etc.

you cannot charge over a model like a rhino to attempt to surround it.

(Sorry I know I'm repeating myself here, but there's so many nuances to melee that is now out of the options I find it absurd)

I finally found a use for drop pods with open doors again I guess .... 100 point fortification charge prevention devices

Adjacent Drop Pods with open doors can cut off MASSIVE amounts of board space if you just make a wall out of them. I once saw a SM player use a couple of unoccupied Drop Pods to herd Ork Boyz in a prior edition.

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
So just so I have it straight in my head now :

arrive from DS 9" diagonal away from a unit atop a 6" tall bastion.. the charge distance is more than likely at least 12" (across and then up)

in fact this makes charges onto some taller buildings impossible, as even if one model from a unit makes it, he can't charge out of coherency so if anyone were unable to make the distance then the one that could is dragged back down.

you cannot charge across a unit to charge a unit behind a screen

you cannot charge a single unit and get behind that unit at all (to attack at the back rank) unless you run all around them and pile-in etc.

you cannot charge over a model like a rhino to attempt to surround it.

(Sorry I know I'm repeating myself here, but there's so many nuances to melee that is now out of the options I find it absurd)

I finally found a use for drop pods with open doors again I guess .... 100 point fortification charge prevention devices

It's 12.7" charge distance even though range is 9". Actually Howling Banshees might pull it off, with an extra charge distance. Even though they don't have the verbiage that increases their charge range as well as the charge distance, because of the way charge ranges are measured, they'd be able to possibly take advantage of the charge range. They've have to roll well, however.

doctortom wrote:It's 12.7" charge distance even though range is 9". Actually Howling Banshees might pull it off, with an extra charge distance. Even though they don't have the verbiage that increases their charge range as well as the charge distance, because of the way charge ranges are measured, they'd be able to possibly take advantage of the charge range. They've have to roll well, however.

An excellent point. Looks like Banshees have found their niche! Coming out of the webway turn 2 to charge entrenched T'au Sept Fire Warriors on the top level of ruins. I have the full charge probability table in my sig. Because it basically shifts the rolls 3 slots it's not as much of a losing proposition.

a further point of clarification then please if you will.

Can RG Vanguard Vets with Jump packs use their "Ignore terrain and models" part of FLY if they use STFS ?

the bit is confusing me as it is "in the first battle round" and as such it must be the Movement Phase for at least one player as the first part of the battle round, (Deployment stated that it is not a phase).
but before the game begins .. which is some weird limbo stage where the game has begun and yet not begun ..

and without explaining wormholes, string theory and paradoxes to my opponent (and my past, present and future self!!) I don't get it! and don't want to cause the end of reality itself ..

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
a further point of clarification then please if you will.

Can RG Vanguard Vets with Jump packs use their "Ignore terrain and models" part of FLY if they use STFS ?

the bit is confusing me as it is "in the first battle round" and as such it must be the Movement Phase for at least one player as the first part of the battle round, (Deployment stated that it is not a phase).
but before the game begins .. which is some weird limbo stage where the game has begun and yet not begun ..

and without explaining wormholes, string theory and paradoxes to my opponent (and my past, present and future self!!) I don't get it! and don't want to cause the end of reality itself ..

It can't be the movement phase because it's BEFORE the first turn.

So yes, it's a limbo state between the start of the battle round and the start of the turn.

 Stux wrote:


It can't be the movement phase because it's BEFORE the first turn.

So yes, it's a limbo state between the start of the battle round and the start of the turn.

So, then the answer is no on using jump packs then, they would need to climb terrain using the 9" ?

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:

 Stux wrote:


It can't be the movement phase because it's BEFORE the first turn.

So yes, it's a limbo state between the start of the battle round and the start of the turn.

So, then the answer is no on using jump packs then, they would need to climb terrain using the 9" ?

Correct. As it is not the movement phase they cannot ignore terrain.

Why arent you setting them up on top of the terrain ? You dont have to set up units on the ground.

What would it matter? Flyer still couldn't charge past infantry between it and the target.