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Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

So, having been out of the game for a few years now, I recently had a conversation on the 'Why Aren't You Playing AoS' thread, and have been convinced to give it a go.

This is what I've got so far:

Grand Host of Nagash
Vampire Lord w/ Wings, Chalice - 140 (Vile Transference, Terrorgheist Mantle)
Vampire Lord w/ Chalice - 140 (Spirit Gale)
Vampire Lord w/ Chalice - 140 (Amaranthine Orb)
Necromancer - 110 (Soul Harvest, General - Master of Death)
Necromancer - 110 (Overwhelming Dread)
30 Grave Guard w/ Shields - 420 (Musician & Banner)
40 Skeletons w/ swords - 280 (Musician & Banner)
40 Skeletons w/ swords - 280 (Musician & Banner)
Corpse Cart w/ Unholy Lodestone - 80
Terrorgheist - 300
2000pts

If you're wondering:

- I wanted to give the Terrorgheist Mantle a go, but I thought it would be better on a hero that wasn't my general. However, I'm curious as to whether the Deathforged Chain is any good, as I always like regeneration-type stuff.

- I really wasn't sure which spells to choose. I wanted Vile Transferance on my winged vampire, but I picked Soul Harvest on my General simply because I'm using a model with a scythe (unless things go badly wrong, he probably won't be casting it very often ). Other than that, I really have no idea which spells are the most useful (and whether I should pick multiples of the same spell or try for some variety), so any help here would be appreciated.

- If it matters, I do have some other models to draw on, but I don't own any of the new models (and I really don't want to use special characters), and a lot of my models have been invalidated due to the army being split up. In addition to the above, I believe I've got:
- 1 Wight King
- Probably some more Vampires
- 3 Cairn Wraiths
- 2 Tomb Banshees
- 10-20 more skeletons
- 10 more Grave Guard
- 10 Dire Wolves
(The rest is now restricted to Flesh Eater Courts)

Anyway, I've got basically no experience with Age of Sigmar, so any advice would be most welcome.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






So first off a big thing with AoS is figuring out what power level your game is at--how optimized/min-maxed the lists will be. At its worst a properly optimized list will crush an average one with near 100% certainty. Fortunately the game is really fun when there is an agreed on level of potency and just a little communication beforehand goes a long way. With LoN you will probably not be the one on the lower end, and may even need to tone things back depending on the local scene. That said this is a reasonable army that does not dive into the worst LoN can bring. But if you want to know how to make it stronger feel free to ask

Tips:
-Pay attention to the range of Deathless Legions; it is easy to accidentally move a unit out of range (especially on charges).
-Keep your general alive at all costs as Endless Legions is the strongest thing you have.
-Do not put gravesites right on objectives as it will allow your opponent to hold the objective and block summoning from it at the same time. But do place them close enougb that your units are in range while they are holding the objective.
-A general strategy for gravesite placement seems to be 'two wide, two middle' where you have two grave sites in your zone relatively far apart (24-36") that let you endless legions from and two near the center line about 15-18" apart so they can both be used to regenerate the same centrally-located unit.
-Try to force the opponent to split their offense among units since your ability to return a few models to multiple units is much greater than your ability to return a bunch of models to one unit.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So first off a big thing with AoS is figuring out what power level your game is at--how optimized/min-maxed the lists will be. At its worst a properly optimized list will crush an average one with near 100% certainty. Fortunately the game is really fun when there is an agreed on level of potency and just a little communication beforehand goes a long way. With LoN you will probably not be the one on the lower end, and may even need to tone things back depending on the local scene. That said this is a reasonable army that does not dive into the worst LoN can bring. But if you want to know how to make it stronger feel free to ask


Well, it's not intended for tournaments - just a local club. So hopefully it won't be going up against top-tier lists.

That said, I would indeed like to know how to make it stronger. I always like to know what makes a strong list, even if I then choose to do otherwise.

Is Step 1 adding Nagash, by any chance? I ask because he seems to be in just about every list.


 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Tips:
-Pay attention to the range of Deathless Legions; it is easy to accidentally move a unit out of range (especially on charges).
-Keep your general alive at all costs as Endless Legions is the strongest thing you have.
-Do not put gravesites right on objectives as it will allow your opponent to hold the objective and block summoning from it at the same time. But do place them close enougb that your units are in range while they are holding the objective.
-A general strategy for gravesite placement seems to be 'two wide, two middle' where you have two grave sites in your zone relatively far apart (24-36") that let you endless legions from and two near the center line about 15-18" apart so they can both be used to regenerate the same centrally-located unit.
-Try to force the opponent to split their offense among units since your ability to return a few models to multiple units is much greater than your ability to return a bunch of models to one unit.


Thank you very much, that's a great help.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






If you want to not just compete at a tournament level but be on the upper end of it then you put in Nagash. Nagash lists are among the strongest, if not -the- strongest, in the game once realm spells are factored in.

At any rate, how to make your particular list stronger:
-Drop the terrorgheist mantle and take the Grave-Sand Timeglass instead. It is one of the best artifacts in the book.
-Probably not possible but give your grave guard great weapons and your skeleton blobs spears.
-Drop a vampire and run two units of 20 grave guard
-Drop another vampire and the terrorgheist to run a vampire on zombie dragon
-Take the Lord of Nagashizzar command trait

How to run a game-breakingly strong LoN list:
-Bring Nagash
-Chainrasp hordes as battleline
-Grimghast reapers as elite infantry
-Pretty much anything you do after that is gravy

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If you want to not just compete at a tournament level but be on the upper end of it then you put in Nagash. Nagash lists are among the strongest, if not -the- strongest, in the game once realm spells are factored in.

At any rate, how to make your particular list stronger:
-Drop the terrorgheist mantle and take the Grave-Sand Timeglass instead. It is one of the best artifacts in the book.
-Probably not possible but give your grave guard great weapons and your skeleton blobs spears.
-Drop a vampire and run two units of 20 grave guard
-Drop another vampire and the terrorgheist to run a vampire on zombie dragon
-Take the Lord of Nagashizzar command trait


Thank you so much.

I can definitely do the bold suggestions. I wasn't sure which Command Trait to chose, so I'm more than happy to go with the Lord of Nagashizzar one. Similarly, I wondered if I had too many Heroes, so I'll swap out a Vampire Lord and have 2 units of 20 Grave Guard as you suggest.

I'd like to at least try the Terrorgheist Mantle, but if it doesn't work out I'll bear in mind that the Timeglass is best.

I'll see if my group will let me run my grave guard with great weapons and my skeletons with spears, in spite of most being modelled the other way. Can I ask why spears and great weapons are better? Is damage more important than defence, or is defending against Rend- attacks just not worth it?

One last thing - I hadn't realised that Command Abilities cost Command Points. Should I try to leave some unspent points so that I can use Endless Legions a few times?


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Happy to help!

Well you get 1 command point per turn, so if it looks like things may go against you it could be worth saving one so you have two the next. Additionally you probably are not going to use your first turn CP so you have that as a reserve.

On weapon choice; skeleton hand weapons have the better profile but spears have 2" melee range, meaning that more models in the unit will get to attack. This means 10-man units are better off with hand weapons while 40-man unit are better off with spears (one never uses 20 or 30 man units). On 25mm round bases you can get three 'ranks' of models into 2" melee range as opposed to just two. However as the hand weapon profile is still better having them on large units is only a minor reduction in offense.

Great weapons are down to what the grave guard are being used for. In this list they are your elite infantry and you need them to be killing things; the skeletons are around as anvils and have decent offense at large sizes but with no rend. Grave guard need to bring the punch they do not have, which is why the great weapons are important. Note the shields are not bad; if you were running just grave guard and no basic skeletons then you would want some units of each.

That said, going back to what I said originally, you are playing a really strong faction so having some less optimal choices around is probably a good idea

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Happy to help!

Well you get 1 command point per turn, so if it looks like things may go against you it could be worth saving one so you have two the next. Additionally you probably are not going to use your first turn CP so you have that as a reserve.

On weapon choice; skeleton hand weapons have the better profile but spears have 2" melee range, meaning that more models in the unit will get to attack. This means 10-man units are better off with hand weapons while 40-man unit are better off with spears (one never uses 20 or 30 man units). On 25mm round bases you can get three 'ranks' of models into 2" melee range as opposed to just two. However as the hand weapon profile is still better having them on large units is only a minor reduction in offense.

Great weapons are down to what the grave guard are being used for. In this list they are your elite infantry and you need them to be killing things; the skeletons are around as anvils and have decent offense at large sizes but with no rend. Grave guard need to bring the punch they do not have, which is why the great weapons are important. Note the shields are not bad; if you were running just grave guard and no basic skeletons then you would want some units of each.

That said, going back to what I said originally, you are playing a really strong faction so having some less optimal choices around is probably a good idea


Thank you for explaining that. And, yeah, that's a good point about my list potentially being quite strong.

I'll try to get a feel for how strong my opponents' lists are, and whether I want to tweak mine to be stronger or weaker.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Ya...I tossed together my old VC models and did a game today. I felt like an A-hole with how stupidly my skeletons mauled my Serephon opponent. He was fine as were both learning the ins and outs of AoS.

Suffice to say: LoN is stupid strong and bringing toys to have fun helps you keep friends
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Did he cast spells with his Slaan general? I can imagine a new player thinking that is how Seraphon are played. What you actually do is hide him in the corner, avoid casting anything, and just summon bastiladons with laser crystal.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
 
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