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Made in us
Been Around the Block




So the new dark elder book mentions dark elder love capturing orks due to their high pain tolerance. This means orks requires more “creative” methods to break (so more fun for the dark eldar) and provides more substance to the dark eldar that breaks them. That led me to think of the question, can the dark eldar break an original legion deathguard space marine?

It’s tough to say so I’ll give my main argument for both sides.

The dark elder haemonculus have had many thousands of years to master their craft. They have experimented on and broken thousands if not hundreds of thousands of individuals. For many haemonculus this group has consisted of a large variety of races, and include the likes of space marine commanders. Some have conquered any and all challenges they’ve faced before. Can they break the plague marine?

On the other side there is the Deathguard unbroken. These space marines have had the misfortune of contracting the destroyer plague after Typhus tricked them, and where trapped in a state of agony for who knows how long. They eventually threw in the towel and submitted to Nurgle. After that they stopped feeling pain and are totally fine with the fact their bodies are literally falling apart. This means that plague marine both feels no pain currently and has already faced agonies unimaginable, meaning it will be quite hard to cause him pain worse than what he’s already faced.

So who wins? Is there any official lore on this topic? Love to hear your opinions!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/11 02:27:55


 
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





there's an old joke "I'm not a mind reader, I gotta have something to work with" that applies here IMHO. if the death guard are physicly unavble to feel pain, there's no magic trick that'd do it. I imagine the dark eldar wouldn't even bother with PHYSICAL torture and instead attempt to engage in mind games etc

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





The Eternity Gate

What if the DE just slowly cured the PMs diseases? Even if new ones came it probably hurts them when they are cured.

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Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 buddha wrote:
What if the DE just slowly cured the PMs diseases? Even if new ones came it probably hurts them when they are cured.


I suspect thats easier said then done. most likely the result would be the dark eldar trying torture and catching some death plague

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




BrianDavion wrote:
 buddha wrote:
What if the DE just slowly cured the PMs diseases? Even if new ones came it probably hurts them when they are cured.


I suspect thats easier said then done. most likely the result would be the dark eldar trying torture and catching some death plague


Yeah Nurgle diseases are hard to exterminate. This is a case of technology so advanced it seems like magic vs actual magic. hard to get a clear winner from that.
   
Made in gb
Using Inks and Washes




U.k

I think they’d more likely use them to torture others but might avoid taking them back to the dark city at all. Asking for sniffles and things that. Handy for making bioweapons out of.
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Quite an interesting question. Im siding with BD though, if the Deathguard are immune to literally any and all physical pain this Galaxy can throw at them, I think the DE techniques wouldnt make any dent in them.

Wasnt there a story where Lilieth carved up a chaos SM and put him atop a spire in Commorragh basically amputated and screaming in pain forever. Cant recall if he was DG or just regular Chaos though.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in sg
Regular Dakkanaut




Well, sure. Plague Marines are immune to physical pain, but they are not (in 8th edition) fearless. The Dark Eldar can still mindrape or humiliate them to the point where they can no longer bear.
   
Made in fr
Furious Raptor




Expecting a giant wolf to start eating the Sun any day now...

It would depend on who was writing the story and who was the protagonist. Personally, I think Asdrubael Vect would be - let's say extremely disappointed - with any DE who thought it was a good idea to bring a plague marine into Commorragh.

Of course, in my headcannon, DE don't even bother with anyone whose soul is marked by one of the Chaos Gods, because trying to eat such a soul is more trouble than it is worth.

"The trouble with the Heresy as envisaged by GW is it just feels like 40K - it doesn't have the feel of a genuinely different society that ten thousand years separation would give you. Whenever I wrote anything that referenced back to those times I always wrote in a legendary, non-literal style. It's as if you were dealing with something like the Iliad rather than literal history - and there you're only talking three thousand years - ten thousand years - that takes us back to the end of the last ice-age... and I don't get any sense of understanding about 'deep time' when I look at anything GW have set in the 40K 'past'." - Rick Priestley 
   
Made in us
Glorious Grot Banna Wava




First, you'd need to find a haemonculus dumb enough to be in the same room as a plague marine.
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker




Somerdale, NJ, USA

You want to torture a captive Plaguemarine? Get some soap and clean them up; make sure to febreeze their cloaks too.

"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."

"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."

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Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






Plague Marines absolutely do feel pain. The trouble is, it's a constant. So adding new pain on top isn't necessarily going to make a difference.

I suspect that much like breaking a Slaaneshi Cultist or Marine, the sheer challenge is part of the fun. Nothing breaks centuries of humdrum ennui like a really, really tough challenge. Succeeding there would likely gain one notoriety as well, which is no bad thing.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I suspect that much like breaking a Slaaneshi Cultist or Marine, the sheer challenge is part of the fun. Nothing breaks centuries of humdrum ennui like a really, really tough challenge. Succeeding there would likely gain one notoriety as well, which is no bad thing.


Poor Poor Noise Marine. Placed in an endless library of economics and international trade law treatises, with a sound system that plays only Prairie Home Companion reruns at that painful volume where its quite enough that you have to strain to hear it, but loud enough that you cannot ignore it.

"...well that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where the woman are strong, the men are good looking, and the children are above average..."

Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in gb
Using Inks and Washes




U.k

In the second Dark Eldar book they fight plague marines and don’t seem to get off on it. It’s just business that needs doing. No talk of capture or enjoyment. I think humiliation etc would only work, like on other creatures. Can’t see an ORK worrying too much about pain, but he couldn’t fight and was getting killed slowly he would get very angry and give off some negative vibes.
   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander





Halifax

There's a funny scene in the old Redeemer comic where the Redeemer, and maniac Necromundan Redemptionist priest, brings an undead psycker back to life using a combination of medicine and shamanism so he can torture the guy. I can imagine a Haemonculi doing it for the forbidden thrill, and as an expression of what It imagines to be Its nascent godhead.

   
Made in us
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine




Hanoi, Vietnam.

Crimson wrote:
Spoiler:
I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.


akaean wrote:
Spoiler:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I suspect that much like breaking a Slaaneshi Cultist or Marine, the sheer challenge is part of the fun. Nothing breaks centuries of humdrum ennui like a really, really tough challenge. Succeeding there would likely gain one notoriety as well, which is no bad thing.


Poor Poor Noise Marine. Placed in an endless library of economics and international trade law treatises, with a sound system that plays only Prairie Home Companion reruns at that painful volume where its quite enough that you have to strain to hear it, but loud enough that you cannot ignore it.

"...well that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where the woman are strong, the men are good looking, and the children are above average..."


Pure evil. You two would make even a haemonculous feel some remorse.
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





An imaginative Haemoculous could try to develop its own bio plague weapon, perhaps one that has negative Warp effect.

A Plague Marine that starts Rotting away, but without the "Comforting whispers" of Grandfather Nurgle in its mind to ease the pain.

Perhaps this creates some sort of abandonment fears, and touches on psychological Daddy issues the marine might have, abandoned by home world, Emperor, Primarch and now their God. I'm sure being separated from their patron deities is a painful experience for all the Cult troops of Chaos.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 09:40:47


 
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 Crimson wrote:
I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.


in the list of of bad movies of all you think TPM even registers? there are a LOT worse movies out there. but hey it's "kewl" to hate on Lucas.


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






BrianDavion wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.


in the list of of bad movies of all you think TPM even registers? there are a LOT worse movies out there. but hey it's "kewl" to hate on Lucas.



Sure, there are worse movies, but not very many so high profile ones, made with so much money and so much preparation. The guy had supposedly planned this for decades, had all the money and resources he could hope for and that is what he came up with? But this is off topic, if we want to talk about childish, embarrassingly badly crafted stories, there is plenty to choose from in the 40K lore.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





I agree with the idea the best way to torture a plague marine would be to attack him psychologically. Try not to be too clever though, play too many mind games with a favored son of Nurgle and you might attract the interest of his sworn nemesis...
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 Crimson wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.


in the list of of bad movies of all you think TPM even registers? there are a LOT worse movies out there. but hey it's "kewl" to hate on Lucas.



Sure, there are worse movies, but not very many so high profile ones, made with so much money and so much preparation. The guy had supposedly planned this for decades, had all the money and resources he could hope for and that is what he came up with? But this is off topic, if we want to talk about childish, embarrassingly badly crafted stories, there is plenty to choose from in the 40K lore.


and what was delivered was a family movie that failed to meet the bloated expectations of a fanbase that had become completely and utterly toxic. SW fans are their own worst enemies

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






BrianDavion wrote:


and what was delivered was a family movie that failed to meet the bloated expectations of a fanbase that had become completely and utterly toxic. SW fans are their own worst enemies

I'm not really a huge SW fan, I just have a modicum of taste and appreciation for competent storytelling. I am not hating on something just because it is a new addition to a beloved franchise. I quite like the new Disney SW flicks for an example. Sure, they have some flaws, but in normal movie flaw way, not in a total clusterfeth way. Furthermore, I really don't understand why you need to start this tangent about defending your terrible taste in movies, you're supposed to defend your terrible taste in books here!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 12:56:58


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in ca
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




 Crimson wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:


and what was delivered was a family movie that failed to meet the bloated expectations of a fanbase that had become completely and utterly toxic. SW fans are their own worst enemies

I'm not really a huge SW fan, I just have a modicum of taste and appreciation for competent storytelling. I am not hating on something just because it is a new addition to a beloved franchise. I quite like the new Disney SW flicks for an example. Sure, they have some flaws, but in normal movie flaw way, not in a total clusterfeth way. Furthermore, I really don't understand why you need to start this tangent about defending your terrible taste in movies, you're supposed to defend your terrible taste in books here!



Of course you like the new SW. You are Nordic.

*ducks*
*runs*

This was meant as a light hearted jab. I should not even have to type this, but dakka being dakka…..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/14 16:05:47


 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Table wrote:

Of course you like the new SW. You are Nordic.

*ducks*
*runs*

This was meant as a light hearted jab. I should not even have to type this, but dakka being dakka…..

I would first need to get it to decide whether to be offended...

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops

 Crimson wrote:
I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.


Episode 1 is just below middle of the pack. VIII was much worse.

 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
I think psychological torture would be more effective. Force them to watch 'The Phantom Menace' etc.


Episode 1 is just below middle of the pack. VIII was much worse.

LOL no. No sane film critic would agree with that stance. VIII is an OK movie with some flaws, PM is a total disaster.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

BrianDavion wrote:


and what was delivered was a family movie that failed to meet the bloated expectations of a fanbase that had become completely and utterly toxic. SW fans are their own worst enemies


I don't know man, I can't think of many "family movies" that start off with following a negotiation team on the way to resolve a trade embargo and other economic sanctions. The problem with TPM was that it was itself trying to be both a family movie targeted at children and at the same time a serious political thriller showing the problems with the Old Republic's government structure and the weaknesses of the Senate. If TPM had simplified its plot and just focused on a more standard good vs evil story in the distant future, it would have worked a lot better. Instead we get this weird mismash of political intrigue juxtaposed with childish jokes which makes the entire movie feel forced.

Its also coincidentally why the Disney remakes are doing so much better/ Because while they still have some serious Mary Sue issues with Rey (seriously, compare her to Luke in a New Hope, Luke did not have anywhere near her deus ex machina ability- even in Return of the Jedi- and we were always painfully aware of Luke's limitations), at the end of the day, Disney recognizes that you cannot combine Game of Thrones political intrigue where every character is a different shade of grey with a good vs evil style story like Lord of the Rings. TPM tries to be both and fails at both.

Honestly, I, II and III should have been story boarded based on the fall of the Roman Empire, with Anakin's character modeled on Caesar and Obi-Wan's character modeled on Pompey. Episode I being the wonder friends episode with the Pompey, Crassus and Caesar alliance, and ending with Crassus' death. Episode II being Caesar's rise to power in Gaul and the beginning of his corruption and Episode III then mirroring the Battle of Pharsalus where Caesar defeated Pompey, forced him to flee to Egypt and effectively ended the Roman Republic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/15 16:18:39


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




Maybe some soap and water would be scary to a Plague Marine? Then slather him in disinfectant and talk about how you're going to save countless lives by keeping him locked up...

Yah, psychological torture is the way. A guy who can't feel physical pain and doesn't care if he loses a piece won't really give two Thronecents about any sort of physical torture. If anything he will increase suicide rates among the Dark Eldar.
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

I'd say the Dark Eldar can break anything from pain, and very much probably have done. Maybe the average Archon couldn't get the full enjoyment out of it, but a dedicated Haemonculus with millennia to spare and a curiosity to indulge? I certainly wouldn't want to be that Plague Marine, that's for sure.

 
   
 
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