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Made in us
Been Around the Block




I'm currently over a month into a scheduled commission date with ThirdEye Nuke and it's been a stressful experience so far: little communication, a lot of strange excuses and delays and no evidence the work has started. (communication was great until I paid the 50% deposit and sent over the models). Concerned I am being ghosted altogether.

I'm very concerned because it's a pricey commission but I have also sent over my own models. I don't want to give up but am worried if I am getting possibly scammed and need to begin the long PayPal dispute process and give up on receiving my army anytime soon.

I know this studio has been around for a while, so I wanted to ask on dakka if anyone has used him before. Did you have any issues? Did it all work out?

I don't want to blast the guy online so I will delete the post if the feedback is positive. I made the same post on reddit but didn't get too much response, I've noticed there is a lot more open commission discussion here.

Thank you!
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





Dallas, TX

Is 3rd eye studio one of the ones listed in the dakka trading forums? if not they may not be as responsive like the others.

That being said, how long ago did you send out your army? How large was the army? What stage are the army sent out?(on sprue, need stripping, assembled?)

There is a bad experience by a patron about a different commissioner, here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/762581.page

I'm currently doing commissions myself, I can tell you that about 40% of the time is to prep(strip if necessary, clean mold lines, sub assembly, magnetizing, pinning, basing) the models. So it depends on the Q's I asked above(how long ago, how big is the army, what stage?)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/04 15:51:13


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Hey Big Mac, I sent everything over at the very end of September pre-assembly. I had actually completed 50% deposit payment back in August, to hold the spot for October. I was told the army would be finished in October in 3-4 weeks (it's a lot of Guard), but delays would be okay if I was getting any communication.

Instead he has completely dropped off the map communication wise. Hasn't shown any photos or evidence that even assembly began and last week stopped responding to my emails altogether (which was only intermittent before). When he's replied he has given a lot of the typical online scammer warning signs (only based on my personal experience working with online contractors for my work) but I have sent a lot of polite emails and been very patient thus far, just asking for evidence of basic progress and not necessarily holding him to the deadlines.

The whole thing is just very sad, because even if I get my money back via PayPal dispute I don't know how I can recover my models. The time since August waiting to get the army done will never be recovered and I may not have the stomach to re-commission it all to be honest.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

Third Eye Nuke have/has been going for a long while, and I've not heard any particular horror stories about them.

It's unlikely you're being scammed. It's far more likely that it's just a case of backlog biting. Keep calm, and don't get too arsey - most commissions boil down to one person painting for a lot of hours, and the bigger the job the easier it is to misjudge how much turnaround time is needed for it.

If there are several jobs in the 'queue' ahead of you, this can get compounded. That sort of thing is more common in inexperienced places, or if any sort of subcontracting is done (that's bitten me on the arse badly in the past).

It can get stressful, and too much pressure from a client can lead to a little bit of clamming up or head-burying. It's one of the reasons I don't generally work to deadlines - especially on big jobs. It's also a reason I usually (and indeed feel more disposed to) keep very open communications - I'm not feeling like I've promised something I can't deliver so there's no guilt-shame spiral.

From what you're describing, you've paid a deposit to hold a spot which has most likely been pushed back due to pre-existing work. A 'lot' of guard is a LOT of work (and an underestimate on a per-figure timing with spin up the total correspondingly) - if this needs assembly/cleanup you can expect a fair amount of delay before you even see any progress.

It may be that there's been a massive underestimate in the time-cost of the job - again this can lead to clamming up - how do you tell someone what you've quoted simply can't be done? How do you refund a deposit you've taken under that mistake when it's (as these things usually are) eaten by cashflow expensese? What do you do if you've spent the budgetted time building guardsmen and now need to take on other work to pay the bills?

So yeah, I wouldn't get too shirty about it, but do let them know you understand if stuff's screwed up - honey rather than vinegar may get the truth out of them, then you can see where to go.

 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander





Dallas, TX

I think you're being a bit of 'over the shoulder' watching progress, which most people would get annoyed and can't work under. 4-5 weeks for a IG army is not enough time even if he starts on time, you haven't mention how much IG you've send over. A brief rough list of infantry and vehicles would help. Unless the army is a small 500 pts list not completely made up of conscripts, expect for extended delay, especially over the holidays.

You should however ask for notable updates: actual starting time of your project, finished prepped of your project, actual start of painting on your project etc.
   
Made in hr
Dakka Veteran





Croatia

Reputation is everything, so if this person has been around for a while it's not likely he is scamming you. I know I messed up once and did everything I could to make amends, spending dozens of hours on painting and ending up losing money is still preferable than having horror stories spread around about you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/05 15:34:11


I do commissions: https://www.facebook.com/BoxyBrush/
MPC-Winter painting competition: People's Choice
MPC-Summer painting competition: 3rd place
Black queen painting competition, single model category: 3rd place
Black queen painting competition, Duel/Diorama category: 3rd place
knezovicp@gmail.com
http://www.puttyandpaint.com/PowerElephant
You can follow any projects I'm working on here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/722207.page 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

winterdyne wrote:
From what you're describing, you've paid a deposit to hold a spot which has most likely been pushed back due to pre-existing work. A 'lot' of guard is a LOT of work (and an underestimate on a per-figure timing with spin up the total correspondingly) - if this needs assembly/cleanup you can expect a fair amount of delay before you even see any progress.

It may be that there's been a massive underestimate in the time-cost of the job - again this can lead to clamming up - how do you tell someone what you've quoted simply can't be done? How do you refund a deposit you've taken under that mistake when it's (as these things usually are) eaten by cashflow expensese? What do you do if you've spent the budgetted time building guardsmen and now need to take on other work to pay the bills?

So yeah, I wouldn't get too shirty about it, but do let them know you understand if stuff's screwed up - honey rather than vinegar may get the truth out of them, then you can see where to go.


This is good advice that is condoning horrible behavior on the painter's part.

OP, at the end of the day the vendor is providing you a paid service and should communicate any delays.

Definitely follow up and be polite, but unless you are sending multiple e-mails daily asking for updates, I can't possibly see how the commission painter is getting the benefit of the doubt for dropping communication after cash was exchanged. That is just bush league-level customer service and with the holidays approaching, it is a safe bet any delays are going to get compounded by that hectic time of year.

I'd e-mail and ask for a new completion estimate. Be friendly, acknowledge that the project is large and that delays happen, but ask for a revised time table. If this person still doesn't respond, or can't give a time table for finishing, I'd consider asking for a refund based on how much work was done. Of course if you still receive zero communication a Paypal dispute and police report to the painter's local PD to try and get your models back is the next step.

Sorry your commission experience is turning sour. Hopefully this is just a hiccup and things get back on track.




   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Thank you. I am actually okay with delays, I just want to know what's going on. For example if he sent me an image of the army primed or assembled but he hadn't started painting a month out I'd be bummed but basically okay with it. It's the lack of communication that has been the biggest issue all around.

Another thing that's odd is he has never asked me a question about the painting or assembly over this time. I'm fine with him taking the lead but I definitely expected some sort of question regarding things like color scheme or symbology for so many tanks. Not even a dealbreaker but certainly odd to me.

And I haven't been emailing every day. Every 7 days or so and the last week I sent a couple emails just because 6 days ago he said he'd have photos in a day and, well... I've been polite and haven't pushed it too much despite my instinct that some of the things he has said were dishonest because my only real goal is that the project is finished and finished well, despite delays or what have you and I don't want to disrupt that.

But this last day I did send an email asking that he please send me my models back if he cannot send any images of progress and express some of my frustration. Regardless I don't have a ton of recourse left, I can get my money back through PayPal but not my models or customs and delivery fees.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/06 00:50:57


 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Far as I know, the girl who runs ThirdEyeNuke has been doing it for a good few years at least (I always loved the nurgle video tutorials); so I doubt they'd have decided to just ditch their brand out of the blue. Probably something going on. I know it sucks for you, and they should really have let you in on what's going on; but they're not out and out criminals and you don't need to worry about a scam and run. You'll likely get sorted out in the end one way or another, frustrating as that may be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/06 10:35:12



 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
winterdyne wrote:
From what you're describing, you've paid a deposit to hold a spot which has most likely been pushed back due to pre-existing work. A 'lot' of guard is a LOT of work (and an underestimate on a per-figure timing with spin up the total correspondingly) - if this needs assembly/cleanup you can expect a fair amount of delay before you even see any progress.

It may be that there's been a massive underestimate in the time-cost of the job - again this can lead to clamming up - how do you tell someone what you've quoted simply can't be done? How do you refund a deposit you've taken under that mistake when it's (as these things usually are) eaten by cashflow expensese? What do you do if you've spent the budgetted time building guardsmen and now need to take on other work to pay the bills?

So yeah, I wouldn't get too shirty about it, but do let them know you understand if stuff's screwed up - honey rather than vinegar may get the truth out of them, then you can see where to go.


This is good advice that is condoning horrible behavior on the painter's part.



Please don't confuse understanding what causes this sort of behaviour with condoning it.

I'm not hypocritical enough to say I've never buried my head in the sand over a job that's going badly wrong or been less than great with communication when I have no idea how to handle something, but it's not something you should accept in yourself in a professional position. Generally once you've been through it once or twice, knowing how to handle it gets easier.

As PowerElephant said, this usually means losing money over time - for a business to survive that can mean sidelining a project to overtime scheduling while you carry on with other works to maintain the cashflow. It's unusual to be able to do more than about 15% of your working time in overtime, so a project that gets sidelined can end up extending it's working time by 85% or more.

Higher living cost located studios generally work more hours in the overtime to maintain competitive job rates. This further compounds the time availability when the gak hits the fan.

Kind of beyond the remit of this thread to go further into the ins and outs of commissions from a business perspective. Just touch base with them, ask for a response by a certain day (give them say a week), then open the paypal dispute or go down the legal channel. If you need to recover the models, I'd look at that before opening the paypal dispute (though I think you're beyond the timescale for that anyway).







 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

winterdyne wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
winterdyne wrote:
From what you're describing, you've paid a deposit to hold a spot which has most likely been pushed back due to pre-existing work. A 'lot' of guard is a LOT of work (and an underestimate on a per-figure timing with spin up the total correspondingly) - if this needs assembly/cleanup you can expect a fair amount of delay before you even see any progress.

It may be that there's been a massive underestimate in the time-cost of the job - again this can lead to clamming up - how do you tell someone what you've quoted simply can't be done? How do you refund a deposit you've taken under that mistake when it's (as these things usually are) eaten by cashflow expensese? What do you do if you've spent the budgetted time building guardsmen and now need to take on other work to pay the bills?

So yeah, I wouldn't get too shirty about it, but do let them know you understand if stuff's screwed up - honey rather than vinegar may get the truth out of them, then you can see where to go.


This is good advice that is condoning horrible behavior on the painter's part.



Please don't confuse understanding what causes this sort of behaviour with condoning it.


Fair enough, but re-read your comment. It is pretty heavily skewed to understanding the plight of the painter and ignores the concerns of the customer. While it is good to have the perspective of the painter in mind, if most of us are honest, customers care very little for the reasons behind a vendor failing to hold up their end of a contract. In the customer's mind the vendor fethed up and should make the situation right. Period. Be that communicating or whatever, the onus is on the vendor to maintain dialogue when timelines go awry.


winterdyne wrote:
If you need to recover the models, I'd look at that before opening the paypal dispute (though I think you're beyond the timescale for that anyway).


Paypal gives you 180 days from the initial transaction date. OP should be okay still but time is ticking. All the more reason to be polite but firm in requesting revised timelines and or outright cancellation of the project if the painter is honest and cops to being overwhelmed.


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

Gordoape wrote:

Another thing that's odd is he has never asked me a question about the painting or assembly over this time. I'm fine with him taking the lead but I definitely expected some sort of question regarding things like color scheme or symbology for so many tanks. Not even a dealbreaker but certainly odd to me.


This is a bit odd, especially when IG tanks have so many options.


And I haven't been emailing every day. Every 7 days or so and the last week I sent a couple emails just because 6 days ago he said he'd have photos in a day and, well... I've been polite and haven't pushed it too much despite my instinct that some of the things he has said were dishonest because my only real goal is that the project is finished and finished well, despite delays or what have you and I don't want to disrupt that.

But this last day I did send an email asking that he please send me my models back if he cannot send any images of progress and express some of my frustration. Regardless I don't have a ton of recourse left, I can get my money back through PayPal but not my models or customs and delivery fees.



I just went and had a look at their Facebook page (usually a good indicator of workflow or activity)... there's not been an update since the middle of August. That's actually fairly concerning, given that up to then there's a post at most every couple of weeks. I'd have expected to see updates of the backlogged project coming out if that were the cause for your delay. Something is definitely wrong there. Given the amount of work presented over several years, I'm still comfortable saying it's not a planned scam so much as some sort of internal disaster.

As DarkTraveler says though, that's not your problem to deal with.

 
   
Made in hr
Dakka Veteran





Croatia

A paypal dispute might motivate them to respond to you. I'm not sure, but I think that paypal will help you both with getting your money and your models back should the person still not respond.

I do commissions: https://www.facebook.com/BoxyBrush/
MPC-Winter painting competition: People's Choice
MPC-Summer painting competition: 3rd place
Black queen painting competition, single model category: 3rd place
Black queen painting competition, Duel/Diorama category: 3rd place
knezovicp@gmail.com
http://www.puttyandpaint.com/PowerElephant
You can follow any projects I'm working on here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/722207.page 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




winterdyne wrote:
Gordoape wrote:


I just went and had a look at their Facebook page (usually a good indicator of workflow or activity)... there's not been an update since the middle of August. That's actually fairly concerning, given that up to then there's a post at most every couple of weeks. I'd have expected to see updates of the backlogged project coming out if that were the cause for your delay. Something is definitely wrong there. Given the amount of work presented over several years, I'm still comfortable saying it's not a planned scam so much as some sort of internal disaster.

As DarkTraveler says though, that's not your problem to deal with.

Unfortunately it is my problem to deal with now!

I have opened a Paypal dispute (but not escalated it yet, I have 20 days or so to do that). He has not responded to those messages either. Certainly it is all quite strange. Being in another country adds another layer of confusion for me. What a bad situation all around. With nearly $3000 of payment and miniatures being hostage I won't get to play Warhammer for quite a while.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 12:57:03


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

That's a very significant army and outlay, and quite a long term commitment for the painter.

I'm very surprised they're not all over this. Have they been giving any reasons or are they just fobbing you off?

 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Philadelphia

I've never heard of them

Youtube / instagram / website?

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






They're pretty popular and well known. Also a contributor to "Tale of Painters" blog which is very popular. Never heard a bad thing about them, but it does all sound a bit poor.

Huh...just went and checked out Tale of Painters, and like mentioned above, the last post from ThirdEyeNuke was in early August. Normally he's a consistent contributor on that blog...

Something is definitely up.

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




winterdyne wrote:
That's a very significant army and outlay, and quite a long term commitment for the painter.

I'm very surprised they're not all over this. Have they been giving any reasons or are they just fobbing you off?


Before he vanished entirely he did give some different reasons that he hadn't replied before disappearing again. Basically just personal stuff (I went on holiday, I got sick, etc.) Was never something specific to the work or the project and he had always said he was working on it and it would be done in October. But then writing back to him it might take another week to get a response.

Anyways it seems he is totally gone now, haven't heard anything in a couple of weeks and he hasn't replied to the PayPal dispute either.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/08 14:32:31


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

Jeez, sorry to hear that, Gordoape.

Does anyone know this painter personally that they could give them a nudge and tell them a customer is looking for a commission status update? Maybe someone connected to Tale of Painters?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

I know a couple of the ToP guys on the interwebs. I've put the word out for them to touch base, and I've heard some non-detailed reasoning second hand. Not my place to discuss that any further.

To me it appears you're not being scammed, but gak has definitely met fan for the painter - hopefully communication will restore faith here and things will get back on track, if delayed.



 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I really appreciate all the help. It’s been a very stressful situation and the support goes a long way. What a great forum this is!

Still incredibly frustrating but doing what I can to try and get things right
   
Made in us
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna





Atlanta, GA

Gordoape wrote:
I really appreciate all the help. It’s been a very stressful situation and the support goes a long way. What a great forum this is!

Still incredibly frustrating but doing what I can to try and get things right


That your Paypal dispute hasn't been answered by him yet in any way does seem to indicate that there's possibly something more serious happening, though I do understand your frustration.
   
Made in de
Storming Storm Guardian





Hey guys, Stahly from Tale of Painters here. I just stumbled upon this thread and felt the need to comment. ThirdEyeNuke is dealing with personal issues, and we haven't heard from him for a while, too. We try to reach out and make him aware of this thread. We're sorry he is unable to take care of his business at the moment and hope he is alright.

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Thanks Stahly, it’s nice to hear from you and confirming that the personal issues are real ones. I wouldn’t wish anyone to go through that. Right now just hoping to get my money and models back somehow some way.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






That confirms my unfortunate suspicion. Well, I think I speak for everyone when I say I hope ThirdEyeNuke is doing okay, and that Gordoape gets a proper resolution to his issue (which seems an unfortunate victim of timing). Hope it comes out okay for everybody involved.

 
   
Made in gb
Virus Filled Maggot





London

 stahly wrote:
Hey guys, Stahly from Tale of Painters here. I just stumbled upon this thread and felt the need to comment. ThirdEyeNuke is dealing with personal issues, and we haven't heard from him for a while, too. We try to reach out and make him aware of this thread. We're sorry he is unable to take care of his business at the moment and hope he is alright.


Hey many thanks for writing that as I have not been particularly with it of late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey all,

I just wanted to write this as I have not been with it for some nine/ten months or so now. Basically my wife and myself are going through a really nasty divorce. It's been incredibly stressful and I have just not been focused at all with anything apart from that.

I want to apologize for any stress or upset as I know I had gone completely silent dead for a couple of months. I was in a really bad place. But I will get contact with everyone.

OP I have your model's still in unopened in the box you sent them in. I will get in touch and mail them back to you. Again none of this was intentional and I apologize.

Sorry all but I am kind of getting back with it and will get in contact with everyone who has written to me.

In the ten years I have been painting I have always been a little bit late but I have always got work done. So I am confident I'll catch up. This is just one of those situations that is not normal.

Chris (ThirdEyeNuke)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/14 11:13:35


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Thirdeyenuke Studio wrote:
 stahly wrote:
Hey guys, Stahly from Tale of Painters here. I just stumbled upon this thread and felt the need to comment. ThirdEyeNuke is dealing with personal issues, and we haven't heard from him for a while, too. We try to reach out and make him aware of this thread. We're sorry he is unable to take care of his business at the moment and hope he is alright.


Hey many thanks for writing that as I have not been particularly with it of late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey all,

I just wanted to write this as I have not been with it for some nine/ten months or so now. Basically my wife and myself are going through a really nasty divorce. It's been incredibly stressful and I have just not been focused at all with anything apart from that.

I want to apologize for any stress or upset as I know I had gone completely silent dead for a couple of months. I was in a really bad place. But I will get contact with everyone.

OP I have your model's still in unopened in the box you sent them in. I will get in touch and mail them back to you. Again none of this was intentional and I apologize.

Sorry all but I am kind of getting back with it and will get in contact with everyone who has written to me.

In the ten years I have been painting I have always been a little bit late but I have always got work done. So I am confident I'll catch up. This is just one of those situations that is not normal.

Chris (ThirdEyeNuke)


Hi, I still have not heard from you. I have emailed a few times. Please do send my models back and contact me directly. Thank you.
   
 
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