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Ok lovely people, I'm putting together a 2k point army and need a bit of feedback. It's not a win at all costs list, it's more about having fun. But part of the fun will be demolishing opponent armies

I'm not new to hobbying or to GW, but I have relatively limited experience with 40k, I've never had my own 2k point army nor have I ever played a game that size. I've included several units of Scouts based on recommendations I've seen online about how they are the best Troops choice, and I've also included a Thunderfire Cannon, a couple infantry with Heavy Bolters, and an infantry with Missile Launcher so I can make use of the strategems that I've read are subtle but effective.

What is my list missing that I should use the last points on?


Double Battalion Alternate (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [110 PL, 1659pts]
Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines)

HQ
Captain
Selections: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun, Warlord

Lieutenant
Selections: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

Troops

Scout Sergeant
Selections: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun


Scout Sergeant
Selections: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun


Scout Sergeant
Selections: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle
Selections: 4x Sniper rifle
Selections: 5x Camo cloak

Fast Attack
Land Speeders
Land Speeder
Selections: Assault cannon, Heavy bolter

Land Speeder
Selections: Assault cannon, Heavy bolter

Land Speeder
Selections: Assault cannon, Heavy bolter

Heavy Support
Predator
Selections: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons

Predator
Selections: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Two Lascannons

Thunderfire Cannon
Techmarine Gunner
Servo-harness
Selections: Flamer, Plasma cutter, 2x Servo-arm

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines)

HQ

Lieutenant
Selections: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

Lieutenant
Selections: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

Troops

Scout Sergeant
Selections: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
4x Scout w/Boltgun

Tactical Squad
4x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant
Selections: Boltgun/Bolt pistol
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon
Selections: Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad
4x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant
Selections: Boltgun/Bolt pistol
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon
Selections: Missile launcher

Heavy Support

Devastator Squad
Selections: Armorium Cherub

Space Marine Sergeant
Selections: Bolt pistol

Space Marine
Selections: Bolt pistol

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon
Selections: Plasma cannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon
Selections: Plasma cannon

Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon
Selections: Heavy bolter

Total points so far is 1,659. I've purchased everything on the list except the TF Cannon, so it won't be much help to recommend removing stuff

Thanks!!!!!

I’ll try to put this bluntly, it’s not great. Your list is just everywhere and really doesn’t have that much damage at all. You said you didn’t want to remove stuff, but the táctiles are just wasted points. Just put the heavy weapons in the scout squads to use the strats. BTW people just saw scouts are the best troop option becuase they’re the cheapest, not becuase they’re gonna do anything amazing. Predators are also really easy to kill and don’t have good damage output. Overall you said you’re not looking to be competative, but it’s not even gonna do that much against a casual eldar list, even custodes, or tyranids. It’ll just get picked apart becuase its so random.

Okay thanks. What would you recommend I do with the remaining points? Since, as you say, everything in my list combined doesn't hardly do any damage, what can I put in that will do damage?

I wouldn’t bother spending points on camocloaks for the scouts; it makes them cost more than a tactical marine and if your opponent has a way to negate cover bonuses (Tau somehow I think markerlights, imperial guard stratagem, probably some others I don’t remember) it’s completely wasted.

You’re playing raven guard and have no jump packs or assault elements. You only need some elites for a brigade detachment to net you an extra 2 cp over your double battalion; maybe add some vanguard vets and you could swap a lieutenant with shrike to give them rerolls to hit and charge.

I might also consider swapping those mc Boltguns for stormbolters. Cheaper and with a higher damage output against lot of targets.

If you want to take advantage of the mw generating stratagems I would not do it with tactical marines. Use devastators instead with a cherub and you double the output from that stratagem for a turn. Probably use 2 or 3 units for redundancy and for multiple cherubs. I recommend 1 hb, 1 ml, 1 pc, and a generic dude to eat a bullet for your heavy weapons and sgt, although you could take another pc or a lc. Use the signum on the overcharged pc to negate explosions.

How I put that came off a bit wrong, what I meant was not that your army doesn’t do damage but that that damage isn’t focussed enough to bring down big stuff. For example how would you kill a knight in one turn or even two?

 snykyninja wrote:


You’re playing raven guard and have no jump packs or assault elements.

I initially wanted to have these elements but couldn't quite understand how to make them work. So far in 8th I have played 4 games, all with Blood Angels. Deep striking in some Sanguinary Guard and Death Company has been horribly ineffective and boring. In all but one game I wasn't able to even get those units into combat because they would miss their charges then get mowed down on the opponent's ensuing turn. So having seen that be totally ineffective, I wasn't sure how it would work with Raven Guard. Strike from the Shadows was recently nerfed, and jump packs can't be used in the assault phase to fly over units (unless I'm missing something). I thought it would be awesome to have a few squads of veterans loaded up with anti-tank weapons, rather than include lascannons, but I didn't see a way that it was possible to build squads like that so dismissed the idea.

Are you suggesting I add jump inf just for the fluff, or because that's an important element to my list that I'm lacking? My most recent opponent played an IG gunline. Deepstriking outside of the gunline then getting mown down by punisher cannons seems inevitable. How would jump inf be more effective in that scenario then, say, a couple dreadnoughts with lascannons and missile launchers?

 snykyninja wrote:

You only need some elites for a brigade detachment to net you an extra 2 cp over your double battalion...

Plus one more HQ, right? I want to avoid sinking more points into a 5th HQ I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Straight_Memer wrote:
How I put that came off a bit wrong, what I meant was not that your army doesn’t do damage but that that damage isn’t focussed enough to bring down big stuff. For example how would you kill a knight in one turn or even two?

Honestly I have no idea which is why I posted here to ask for feedback. I'm not very experienced with 40k and never played against a Knight or even seen one on the table. I understand that close combat is the most effective way to hurt them, but other than that I know nothing about how tough they are, what kind of damage they put out, if they can ignore my cover, etc.

What would you suggest I add to my list so that I can kill a Knight? Terminators? Centurion Devastators? Dreadnoughts? I can't imagine the Raven Guard-y jump infantry with lightning claws would do anything to those things. I'm also not clear on why 8 lascannons aren't a thread to a Knight, is it because they have an invulnerable save against shooting?

In response to your response that is actually some really good understanding of knights. Generally combat is the best way to kill them or sometimes high rate of fire, medium strength, low AP, high damage shots. This is becuase just like you alluded to most knights played by even semi competent players will have a 4+ or 3+ invulnerable save the moment you put your lascannons at it. 8 lascannons have to hit, wound, get through armor and then not roll gak on D6 damage. I would try to go for either some kind of thunderhammers or other high damage close combat weapon. (BUT avoid terminators and centurions at all cost, atleast until CA)

Cool thank you, that is great feedback.

A brigade needs 3-5 hqs, so you could make one even if you drop one. Blood angels have a stratagem that gives them a 3d6 charge when they drop. Either you weren't using it or you were very unlucky.

This is why you take shrike along with 2 or 3 assault units, because he gives reroll charges and you want to maximise your odds of making it with at least one unit

 snykyninja wrote:
A brigade needs 3-5 hqs, so you could make one even if you drop one. Blood angels have a stratagem that gives them a 3d6 charge when they drop. Either you weren't using it or you were very unlucky.

This is why you take shrike along with 2 or 3 assault units, because he gives reroll charges and you want to maximise your odds of making it with at least one unit

Ah okay, noted about the Brigade.

With Blood Angels I was definitely using that strategem, which made it all the more frustrating. Rolling less than 9 on three dice:

Probability of a sum of 3: 1/216 = 0.5%
Probability of a sum of 4: 3/216 = 1.4%
Probability of a sum of 5: 6/216 = 2.8%
Probability of a sum of 6: 10/216 = 4.6%
Probability of a sum of 7: 15/216 = 7.0%
Probability of a sum of 8: 21/216 = 9.7%

So if my basic math is right, that's a 26% chance I fail to get the charge off, which is pretty significant in my opinion if it means my whole unit is blown away the next turn if I fail. But even if Shrike and a few buddies make it into combat against a screening unit, I'm not understanding what good that really does since the screeners either fall back on the next turn, followed by the big guns still mowing me down (and all I've accomplished is to mostly kill a screening unit), or I do kill the entire screening unit then get blown away. Is there a way to get over the screening units? That's what could be really worth it in my opinion. Also, I was spreading my assaults out to different parts of the table...are you saying you keep all assaulting units together to give them more chance of surviving the inevitable shooting retaliation?

That's just really unlucky, but it happens sometimes. It really depends on the opponent. A lot of the people I play against tend to be fairly aggressive, so they end up exposing the back of their army on turn two or three. Alternatively, try to prioritise screening units with your shooting for the first turn or two, and drop in afterwards.

The other option would be to just not drop at all, and instead move up on foot while hugging cover and then you can try to jump over the screens with the fly keyword

Cool, thanks so much for the feedback. Lots of good food for thought!

Another thought to consider would be to replace the land speeders with scout bikes with a storm bolter on the sgt for 77 points. 16" move with 8 shots at 24" and 22 at 12".

This also means you get to keep the mobility without losing effectiveness due to moving with a heavy weapon

Scout Bikes are great for high volume of fire and screen clearing. Likewise, I also think Inceptors can be used really well, and can also provide a bit of a threat to bigger units like Tanks and, eventually, Knights.

Assault units for marines, right now, aren’t great – for standard marines anyway.

Final option for tank hunting etc could be to use Dreadnoughts and/or Razorbacks. The only issue right now, is that you’re not going to get much for the 3-400 points you have spare once you start looking at the options.

That said, CA is meant to be fixing a fair amount of things, so, if you’ve not got the models just yet, I’d personally wait until everything gets updated and then re-assess everything from there.

Those are great points, thanks to you both. I had considered Scout Bikes and can't remember now why I picked against them. The strategem for those bikes seems cool and thematic.

When I initially built this list I fleshed out the remaining points with two dreadnoughts. But I was pretty worried about what a low model count I had.

As far as waiting, I totally get what you're saying. But I've been waiting most of my life I'm also a slow learner, and I can't make much progress with my lists and my in-game ability by study and planning. I really need to try some stuff and fail miserably to understand why my ideas aren't good. I guess I'm just a doh-head like that.