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Hey folks, I'm getting back into the hobby after a bit of a hiatus, so please bear with me if I come off as newby

I was thinking about why Primaris marines exist, and most folks seem to think (And I'd agree) that they're meant to update the current line of space marines and be more true to the artwork/fluff in terms of scale.

But how much do y'all think that the same will apply to vehicles? Transport-wise for the Primaris marines, it looks like a Primaris rhino should be the size of a regular land raider. So does that mean that a Primaris land raider will be the size of a super-heavy? If so, isn't bringing around such huge models going to be troublesome? Three rhinos and some land raiders fit in a few shoeboxes just fine, but superheavies are too big I think.

Perhaps there won't be any land raiders when the line has all of it's equivalents to the regular marine line, but we still have the likes of Daemon engines to consider. I was looking at the artwork for a Maulerfiend and it looks like it'd need to be between potentially 40% bigger, and that's for a regular unit in a 40K game.

Thoughts?

GW has never been great about scale. The Rhino chassis is puny and you couldn't fit ten armored marines in the modelled passenger area with a hacksaw. Most of the other transports have the same issue. For the longest time the ork biker was the same size as a grot.

They also put out kits the size of the Baneblade, I see no reason they won't put out kits in whatever size they think will sell.

The Newman wrote:
GW has never been great about scale. The Rhino chassis is puny and you couldn't fit ten armored marines in the modelled passenger area with a hacksaw. Most of the other transports have the same issue. For the longest time the ork biker was the same size as a grot.

They also put out kits the size of the Baneblade, I see no reason they won't put out kits in whatever size they think will sell.

Absolutely. Scale has always been all over the place.

Bring up a picture of a Guardsman and put that side to side with a real person. Look at the proportions. No wonder the sizes of transports make no sense!

GW seem to be approaching the Primaris from a very generic, multipurpose angle. I have my doubts that we'll see multiple vehicle variations that serve different purposes, so I don't really expect to see Primaris vehicles expanded upon much further than even just the Repulsor tank. I assume that's why it can take one of every weapon in the game and carry 10 Primaris marines.

 Luciferian wrote:
GW seem to be approaching the Primaris from a very generic, multipurpose angle. I have my doubts that we'll see multiple vehicle variations that serve different purposes, so I don't really expect to see Primaris vehicles expanded upon much further than even just the Repulsor tank. I assume that's why it can take one of every weapon in the game and carry 10 Primaris marines.

The rumours are saying that there'll be a cheaper Primaris Transport coming in the next wave of releases. Pinch of salt, of course!

The Newman wrote:
GW has never been great about scale. The Rhino chassis is puny and you couldn't fit ten armored marines in the modelled passenger area with a hacksaw. Most of the other transports have the same issue. For the longest time the ork biker was the same size as a grot.

They also put out kits the size of the Baneblade, I see no reason they won't put out kits in whatever size they think will sell.

Or they have been great in terms of PLAYABILITY. Unless you want to go to scale of 2nd edition where even 1 vehicle was "big thing" better hope rhino's etc don't become in scale. That or kiss goodbye to manouvering etc as meaningfull. Not that with GW's constant upping of model and army sizes leaving board sizes same has left much of that left anyway

People do forget how small vehicles are in real life. Look at a 12 man carrying Russian APC and prepare to marvel. Not to mention the size of a t-34, or even the size of a car next to a 28mm model of a person. As we are trained to view proportions wrong in 40k, real life looks weird shrunk down...

The_Real_Chris wrote:
People do forget how small vehicles are in real life. Look at a 12 man carrying Russian APC and prepare to marvel. Not to mention the size of a t-34, or even the size of a car next to a 28mm model of a person. As we are trained to view proportions wrong in 40k, real life looks weird shrunk down...

This is very true; im 6' 3" and drive a mini cooper, which i stand much taller than. Sitting in a vehicle its totally different.

I also work on military aircraft and i will tell you they were all built for someone who is like 5' 6" tall unless theyre a cargo plane of some sort. But scaling down stuff is always difficult for games of this style, you just have to suspend reality and enjoy it

 Luciferian wrote:
GW seem to be approaching the Primaris from a very generic, multipurpose angle. I have my doubts that we'll see multiple vehicle variations that serve different purposes, so I don't really expect to see Primaris vehicles expanded upon much further than even just the Repulsor tank. I assume that's why it can take one of every weapon in the game and carry 10 Primaris marines.

The OP isn't just talking about Primaris, he also mentioned the Maulerfiend. I suspect that GW's trend of making all the models bigger every so often will continue.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
People do forget how small vehicles are in real life. Look at a 12 man carrying Russian APC and prepare to marvel. Not to mention the size of a t-34, or even the size of a car next to a 28mm model of a person. As we are trained to view proportions wrong in 40k, real life looks weird shrunk down...

Well. True to scale rhino would be land raider sized if 28mm=human sized. Land raider would then be 2/3 as long as that

The_Real_Chris wrote:
People do forget how small vehicles are in real life. Look at a 12 man carrying Russian APC and prepare to marvel. Not to mention the size of a t-34, or even the size of a car next to a 28mm model of a person. As we are trained to view proportions wrong in 40k, real life looks weird shrunk down...

Yup. Humans in 40k are extremely broad, probably twice as broad relative to their height as an average real life person. This is what makes it difficult to imagine 12 guardsmen in a Chimeras, while simultaneously the Chimeras being absolutely massive compared to real world APCs!

 Stux wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
People do forget how small vehicles are in real life. Look at a 12 man carrying Russian APC and prepare to marvel. Not to mention the size of a t-34, or even the size of a car next to a 28mm model of a person. As we are trained to view proportions wrong in 40k, real life looks weird shrunk down...

Yup. Humans in 40k are extremely broad, probably twice as broad relative to their height as an average real life person. This is what makes it difficult to imagine 12 guardsmen in a Chimeras, while simultaneously the Chimeras being absolutely massive compared to real world APCs!

Why are you thinking at real world vehicles though? Rhino is 6m long. Land raider 10m. Chimera 6.9m. M113 not even 5m.

When you think how big model should be don't think real life vehicles. Think how big rhino/chimera/whatever is

if you can find some pictures of the blocks of Krieg infantry that Forge World used to do (a dozen men or so stood shoulder-to-shoulder), they look like they'd fit in a Chimera, because they don't each have a 4' manhole cover attached to their boots . Likewise, they sold a set of ten Elysian Drop Troops who will happily sit in the passenger compartment of a Valkyrie with room for the door gunners.

Yes. Maybe they would fit. Irrelevant though for q of is model true scale or not though. Model is 5" long. That means if that was true scale 2.8cm tall model would be less than 160cm real life...

Just out of interest

A LRBT is 4m high give or take how big is a landraider

Length: 10.3 metres
Width: 6.1 metres
Height: 4.11 metres

So longer than Abrams MBT barrel included(25% longer if you ignore the long barrel), twice as wide and well over meter taller. 40k vehicles are bigger than real world vehicles. Not as space efficient etc but point of 40k is the ridiculous scale of things. Maybe it's just big to house ridiculously big engine needed to move the vehicle at any speed with heavier armour than real world tanks or something.

The Newman wrote:
GW has never been great about scale. The Rhino chassis is puny and you couldn't fit ten armored marines in the modelled passenger area with a hacksaw. Most of the other transports have the same issue. For the longest time the ork biker was the same size as a grot.

They also put out kits the size of the Baneblade, I see no reason they won't put out kits in whatever size they think will sell.

Rhinos aren't actually badly sized. You can probably fit 10 guys inside the transport bay by size. In fact, it's large enough to stand up inside. It's only modeled with 6 seats, though.

If you discount her base, she'll be able to [just barely] stand in there. While a marine is like 2 feet taller, he can duck or sit down inside, there's still space.

Anyway, 5 to a side, or 3 on each side and 4 up the middle, would probably fit.

At least, if you can fit 8 people and their gear in this:

You can probably fit 10 people in a Rhino.



My greater question is "where does the Leman Russ's Gun recoil to? Where is it's breech?" The IG tank commander's legs are directly where the gun's breech and recoil mechanism would be. There's also no space for a gunner or loader inside the tank turret, Meanwhile, the driver and hull gunner have all the space in the world.

Also, the novels Shadowsword and Baneblade describe the tanks as having multiple decks and a walkway for the tank commander inside of them, but looking at my shadowsword, I'm not sure where they'd be. It's pretty big, but not that big.

The barrel is break action. You have to swing the barrel open at the turret, remove the case, load a shell, and then close it again to fire.

The recoil mechanism is that the turret is so solidly built that the whole tank is lifted when firing.

The Guardsmen are better shots, but the mechanics can only support BS 4+.

40K vehicles are correctly scaled to their FW published canonical in-universe sizes. It is just the infantry being heroic scale and thus much 'thicker' than real people which throws off the perception.

 Crimson wrote:
40K vehicles are correctly scaled to their FW published canonical in-universe sizes. It is just the infantry being heroic scale and thus much 'thicker' than real people which throws off the perception.

Oh really? On that assumption 28mm tall model represents about 156cm tall human....

I took measurement of ork boy and it was 29mm. That's 160cm. Orks are noted in fluff to be human sized in their hunched up pose.

Guess 40k humans have become rather short. Japanese female size as standard human size! And orks don't suddenly feel anymore that big if 160cm height is their correct size.

tneva82 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
40K vehicles are correctly scaled to their FW published canonical in-universe sizes. It is just the infantry being heroic scale and thus much 'thicker' than real people which throws off the perception.

Oh really? On that assumption 28mm tall model represents about 156cm tall human....

It would. 28mm model would be really short person. GW's normal humans are 30 to 33mm tall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Guess 40k humans have become rather short. Japanese female size as standard human size! And orks don't suddenly feel anymore that big if 160cm height is their correct size.

Orks are hunched like Gorillas. Gorillas feel plenty big and dangerous.

Keep in mind that models often need to be out-of-scale in order to fit on the tabletop. Likewise "heroic" proportions exist because they're far easier to paint and 10x more robust to game with than actual properly scaled replica models.