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Hello

So, my gaming buddy and I have mostly been playing 40k 8th using the free Core Rules PDF available at GW's site. My gaming buddy bought the Big Rule Book recently...

However, apart from rules for Detachments, Battleforged armies, both of which seem to have little bearing on our games, and Strategems (sometimes helpful), I can't see the point in the BRB for our games, to me it seems to be 90% "fluff" with some stuff mostly aimed at competitive tournaments or massive "Armageddon" type games.

We usually play 1000 point to 1500 point games. We don't tend to run campaigns, we just write up an army during the week, get together at the weekend and play, although I tend to make armies Battleforged (so that I can use Strategems), not sure about my gaming buddies armies.

So for us, the way we play, and as I don't personally have the BRB, apart from Strategems, what is in there that we could be using in our games?

Thanks in advance.

I have very fond memories of my 3E BRB from when I was a teenager. I read the crap outta that thing.

My suggestion: gift it to someone who's brand new the hobby.

It has uses, but it's so fething unwieldy. Why they haven't released a pocket version of it outside of that limited edition version they released at the start of 8th I'll never know.

Yeah, it’s a total pain having to lug around ~140 pages of background material and hard covers just for a smattering of rules. One copy between a group of mates for if you need to refer to it is all you need really – can’t remember the last time I opened mine.

I don't know why they ditched the multiple books in a slip case format that 7th had. It was actually a good idea. You still got everything, it just meant you weren't lugging an entire tome around when you went to play games.

If you know the detachment rules and don't use the scenarios, you don't need it to play at all. At this point it's only important for fluffy people seeking the fluff and collectors to collect the book.

That 5th Edition mini rule book was so nice. I guess people just have digital versions these days, which have the benefit of being updated.

I took mine and had it cut. removed the 140 pages of lore, and bound the pages into a lore book and a rule book. Spiral bound so it lays flat when opened. very handy despite me being called dumb for it

I just carry the reference version from Tooth and Claw these days. I think it might be the same as the free pdf.

Only thing I use these days are deployment maps. Scenarios are unplayable junk and detachment rules I know already. So just photocopy deployment zone books or take photo and good to go

There isn't any. Although, if you're not taking advantage of the different detachments, you're certainly not getting the most out of the armies you field.

 Fifty wrote:
I just carry the reference version from Tooth and Claw these days. I think it might be the same as the free pdf.

It sure is. I’ve got a few of them from various boxes and it’s a lovely format for reference. Would love it of there were different ones the same size with the detachment/scenario rules, but I can’t see that happening as it’d cannibalise BRB sales I guess.

You need it for the missions for matched play and the deployment maps. I've not played 8th for very long but I remember the detachments and I have a pdf for my stratagems that I use.

If you just play the same thing over and over you're not having a great experience.

It's the only place that detachment/army building/stratagem and terrain rules have been officially published, so technically you need it for those few pages.

Missions are handy too unless you have other sources.

But in practice you can remember all of that pretty quickly. There are a couple of terrain types I still have to check, though honestly almost everything is ruins anyway most games!

Missions and deployments. Especially the narrative missions are pretty interesting, the matched play missions are basically superseded by Chapter approved.
And of course army composition, but that's actually not that hard to remember
Overall in 8th we usually don't need to reference the rule book during the game, which is a big plus compared to prior editions.

That being said, the fluff part of the book is the real worth long-term, just like with every codex.

There’s certainly some useful odds and ends in there, but it’s a bit thin on the ground in terms of actual gaming content. Whether or not it’s worthwhile is going to largely depend on whether you’re new to the game and therefore interested in the background material (or, if you’re an older player, whether you want to see how they’ve crowbarred some of the latest nonsense into said background material). Overall, I’d say it’s far from essential, and various combinations of the Battle Primer, Chapter Approved, Tactical Objective decks and the Open War cards give you a lot more bang for your buck in terms of actual rules.

Just photocopy the relevant rules pages.

Well, with how many rules have been changed at this point, the BRB is nearly worthless in my eyes. Might as well just play CA: 2018 missions and forget the BRB exists besides the base detachments.

This is the first edition of 40K where I felt like the BRB was really an utter waste of money, so I sold mine and just use the rules pamphlet. The detachment and open/matched/whatever rules are a read once, could make better rules myself sort of situation.

Thing is, if GW were to cut out the fluff out of this rulebook, the rules portion wouldn't be worth more than about $5, or about $8 in GW pricing, so we're stuck with that behemoth of a book so they can make some sort of money off the rules.

 Stormonu wrote:
This is the first edition of 40K where I felt like the BRB was really an utter waste of money, so I sold mine and just use the rules pamphlet. The detachment and open/matched/whatever rules are a read once, could make better rules myself sort of situation.

Thing is, if GW were to cut out the fluff out of this rulebook, the rules portion wouldn't be worth more than about $5, or about $8 in GW pricing, so we're stuck with that behemoth of a book so they can make some sort of money off the rules.

Yes, how dare they release over 200 pages of background and lore to create depth within the setting.

Perhaps they should have made a "gamer" edition of the BRB. Have it at the price of the indexes when they released and all it contains is the rules, advanced rules and missions etc.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
This is the first edition of 40K where I felt like the BRB was really an utter waste of money, so I sold mine and just use the rules pamphlet. The detachment and open/matched/whatever rules are a read once, could make better rules myself sort of situation.

Thing is, if GW were to cut out the fluff out of this rulebook, the rules portion wouldn't be worth more than about $5, or about $8 in GW pricing, so we're stuck with that behemoth of a book so they can make some sort of money off the rules.

Yes, how dare they release over 200 pages of background and lore to create depth within the setting.

Perhaps they should have made a "gamer" edition of the BRB. Have it at the price of the indexes when they released and all it contains is the rules, advanced rules and missions etc.

Yes please, actually. That. For everything.

It's very useful for getting the atmosphere of 40k. The quotes at the late bottom really let you know what the imperium is like.

The very fact you don’t need to regularly consult the rulebook when playing is a *good thing*.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
This is the first edition of 40K where I felt like the BRB was really an utter waste of money, so I sold mine and just use the rules pamphlet. The detachment and open/matched/whatever rules are a read once, could make better rules myself sort of situation.

Thing is, if GW were to cut out the fluff out of this rulebook, the rules portion wouldn't be worth more than about $5, or about $8 in GW pricing, so we're stuck with that behemoth of a book so they can make some sort of money off the rules.

Yes, how dare they release over 200 pages of background and lore to create depth within the setting.

Perhaps they should have made a "gamer" edition of the BRB. Have it at the price of the indexes when they released and all it contains is the rules, advanced rules and missions etc.

Yes please, actually. That. For everything.

And get all the fething rules into the same place so the weird "-1 penalty makes your plasma gun explode on a 2, +1 bonus doesn't save you on a 1" type clarifications aren't hidden in side-bars that aren't in the .pdf.

The BRB is a fantastic idea for a physical product for the game.

See it has the rules within it so that makes it an almost automatic purchase by nearly anyone new to the game and many who ware already established. Even if the PDF is online many will still want to own the physical rules. Even in this digital age people like paper.

However its not just rules, its also got painting guides, model showcase and a lot of fluff and background lore to the setting. It builds itself into a huge work that sells not just a rules system but a universe and setting.

With that one mighty book GW brings in new players and old ones not just with how to play the game, but with the artwork, background, history, wars, quotations, races, factions and models of the game. It's a shotgun approach that has a bit of everything.

It reinforces the fan side of the game in a big way. Building a mental picture in peoples minds and making them want to know more about the world Some will do this through writing their own lore for their own Marine Chapter or Hive Fleet. Others will be inspired to buy more models for conversions and even for things like "I'm going to build a full Marine chapter even though they'll likely never get to use it.
Others will want more lore and will start reading the Black Library publications; some will buy GW artwork or merchandise etc..


The crafting of a solid lore builds a backbone into the franchise that helps solidify the fanbase and encourage people to be long term fans not just a one-shot wonder. It's an area where GW has always done really well in and sets them apart from many others that try to break into the wargame market

Some of us may not appreciate having to buy the same damn background we all know over and over again and again. Yes, dammit, we know already!!! Dark age of technology! Age of strife! Da emprah! Primarchs! Primarchs stolen! Great crusade! Horus heresy!! Yadda yadda yadda we xxxxing know already!!!! "

The thing is that there are too many corporate apologists and corporate bootlickers who will never criticize a corporation in its endless pursuit of every cent it can squeeze out of people who will snidely deride those who criticize being made to buy essentially useless background to get some new rules set.

 Overread wrote:
The BRB is a fantastic idea for a physical product for the game.

See it has the rules within it so that makes it an almost automatic purchase by nearly anyone new to the game and many who ware already established. Even if the PDF is online many will still want to own the physical rules. Even in this digital age people like paper.

However its not just rules, its also got painting guides, model showcase and a lot of fluff and background lore to the setting. It builds itself into a huge work that sells not just a rules system but a universe and setting.

With that one mighty book GW brings in new players and old ones not just with how to play the game, but with the artwork, background, history, wars, quotations, races, factions and models of the game. It's a shotgun approach that has a bit of everything.

It reinforces the fan side of the game in a big way. Building a mental picture in peoples minds and making them want to know more about the world Some will do this through writing their own lore for their own Marine Chapter or Hive Fleet. Others will be inspired to buy more models for conversions and even for things like "I'm going to build a full Marine chapter even though they'll likely never get to use it.
Others will want more lore and will start reading the Black Library publications; some will buy GW artwork or merchandise etc..


The crafting of a solid lore builds a backbone into the franchise that helps solidify the fanbase and encourage people to be long term fans not just a one-shot wonder. It's an area where GW has always done really well in and sets them apart from many others that try to break into the wargame market

Problem here being 99% of that rulebook is useless mid game. The small rule sets available in all sort of boxes are more usable for that. Fluff, painting guides etc are also just annoying weight to haul around. GW should have stuck with 7th ed style with rules, modeling and fluff in separate books. Carry to game just what you need in game.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Some of us may not appreciate having to buy the same damn background we all know over and over again and again. Yes, dammit, we know already!!! Dark age of technology! Age of strife! Da emprah! Primarchs! Primarchs stolen! Great crusade! Horus heresy!! Yadda yadda yadda we xxxxing know already!!!! "

The thing is that there are too many corporate apologists and corporate bootlickers who will never criticize a corporation in its endless pursuit of every cent it can squeeze out of people who will snidely deride those who criticize being made to buy essentially useless background to get some new rules set.

This is needlessly dismissing other people's arguments by calling them 'corporate apologists'. Just because you disagree with them doesnt mean you can just label them off and dismiss their arguments, not how that works.

Now I like the fluff in the BRB. Do I wish they released a separate rules version for cheaper? Yes. I very much do. But, the fluff there is nice, nice to show to new players, or sometimes just read over other factions when I'm bored.

Oh I can certainly be critical of GW's choices! I just see the justification for the BRB, esp today when the PDF with the rules is FREE online and has the same rules information in it. So established people can use a home printer.

I do agree that a shorter version of the rules can be made and could be made, but I can see why GW doesn't do it. If they sold the rules only on its own there's a risk that the BRB might not sell well. Furthermore new people would be encouraged to spend on the cheap smaller copy just for the rules and they'd miss out the hobby and lore aspects. That might not seem important at first, but it could easily set the way for a breed of wargamer who has no interest in the lore of the game. That means all those Black Library novels, all those works of art, etc... All that side would dwindle in importance and sales.

Bad for GW and bad for gamers as the aesthetic certainly is one part of the draw to the hobby.

What would be nice is for the BRB to go the way the 3rd edition FoW BRB went, slip case with three books inside it - in that case a rulebook, an army list book and a painting book.

for 40k would be very nice to have:
- rules & Scenarios
- background material

and possibly a hobby guide of some sort (aimed at beginners initially but covering painting techniques, assembly etc)

easy to leave the fluuf on the shelf and take the rules with you, also way easier for GW to replace the rules book annually with Chapter Approved, yes collect them and you get a library of scenarios and special mission rules but you would only need the current one - not like the actual rules take up that much space is it?