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In the star wars universe I wonder if force users have free will. I see some hunts they may not.

Currently there are hints that the force always seeks a balance, which means an endless cycles of conflicts between the light and dark sides. For this to happen there must be champions of both sides. If there msut be champions on both sides, wouldn't that mean the force sometimes has to create a champion for one side when the other is ascendent?

Look at annikin skywalker. It seems that you had both sides nearly working together to drive him to the dark side. Quigon Jinn leaving his mother as a slave which later helped push him to the dark side. The way palpatine was working on him since childhood, the way the other jedi slighted him publicly at times, especially big bad samuel jackson, seeing his mother die or torture in his arms, the jedi not allowing it's cultists, er, knights, to have families....

Honestly it almost looks like both sides of the force were manipulating their pawns to push and pull him over to the dark side.

Later luke comes along and again the jedi start working on him, but also alienating him by lying to him a lot and sewing seeds of distrust. ("Your father was betrayed and murdered by darth vader." Banthashit!)

But even while palpatine was trying to drive luke darkside vader actually didn't want luke to go there really. Remember that vader wanted luke to join him and depose palpy together, then stops luke from bisecting palpy in the deathstar throne room! Why? Letting luke off palps would have driven luke darkside and cleared the throne for vader. Yet vader stopped him. I always wondered why until someone pointed out that maybe deep down vader didn't want luke to go to the darkside, and saved palpy to save luke. So luke didn't go darkside partially based on the act of a darkside follower.

Later luke manages to push ben solo to the dark side by preparing to murder him in his sleep until the dark side apparently yells "WAKEY WALEY!" in his ear.,...

So now we have kylo and Rei, and the force has it's balance and conflict again....

As always.

I wonder if the force actually works to push and pull people to opposite sides just to maintain an endless conflict, and if so does that imply force users have no real free will but are manipulated into the sides they end up on?

If so, that certainly casts the star wars universe in a very different light.

They do. They absolutely do.

During the Clone Wars series, Obi Wan, Ahsoka and Anakin essentially meet the living embodiments of The Force.

Anakin is told his place is to remain with them, and there'll be dire consequences for the Galaxy if he doesn't.

And of course, he didn't. That shows free will.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:


I wonder if the force actually works to push and pull people to opposite sides just to maintain an endless conflict, and if so does that imply force users have no real free will but are manipulated into the sides they end up on?

If so, that certainly casts the star wars universe in a very different light.

well it's more or less the central theme of KOTOR 2, implying the Force might have some form of sentient awareness and is generally just messing with the galaxy because it can

Free Will as a concept is often debated.
At what point do you consider that you are "free" to make choices.

Take eating; you want to consume food because your body demands it. Your taste buds have certain foods that you favour over others for taste and texture, whilst your mind might have guidelines taught to you by others on nutrition.

So when it comes to making a choice between even two food options - like an apple or slice of chocolate cake - are you really "free" to choose whichever or is the various factors and forces that compete for their own choice combine to produce a result that, in that moment, is 100% predictable. Ergo are you really making a "free" choice or is it predetermined. And furthermore how many of those external factors are forcing you and how many are just part of you exercising your freedom and freewill. Are you tasted buds part of you and thus their input is just your free will; whilst the nutritional advice isn't a part of your body and thus is an external influence.



Only if you can answer those questions can you then even attempt to answer if the Force denies or enables or allows free will. Furthermore you then have to decide if the Force is part of life in the Universe setting and thus part of what constitutes the elements that make up free will; or if its something that stands apart and influences choices external to a persons freedom of choice.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:


I wonder if the force actually works to push and pull people to opposite sides just to maintain an endless conflict, and if so does that imply force users have no real free will but are manipulated into the sides they end up on?

If so, that certainly casts the star wars universe in a very different light.

well it's more or less the central theme of KOTOR 2, implying the Force might have some form of sentient awareness and is generally just messing with the galaxy because it can

Damn, boy, you're making me wish icd played this!

I gave it another run though at the start of the year, it has not aged well

I think I was more attuned to it's mythos bashing after the three course roadkill with gak sauce serving of the prequels

this time it just came off as 'us writers is so smart what with them philosophy books we dun read'

its still an interesting game and for all its many shortcomings was way more coherent than TLJ's retread of similar idea's

Kotor 2 is a great game, but sadly suffers from the developing studio running out of money and having to rush the finish and its quality takes a nosedive.

Overall it was a great game, though it shows its age in todays world where we have far more "open" RPG settings whilst Kotor 1 and 2 were very linear in map design. Even their "open" areas are basically very curtailed.

I really dug KOTOR 2 until the very end. I was so pissed that you just beat Kreia and then fly away in the Ebon Hawk. Like... really? That was it? Fun ride up until that point though. I still remember how creepy it was going through the derelict star destroyer on your way to fight Darth Nihilus. Such chills.

 Overread wrote:
Kotor 2 is a great game, but sadly suffers from the developing studio running out of money and having to rush the finish and its quality takes a nosedive.

Overall it was a great game, though it shows its age in todays world where we have far more "open" RPG settings whilst Kotor 1 and 2 were very linear in map design. Even their "open" areas are basically very curtailed.

Limited open areas aren't necessarily a negative. Often open world games are filled with just junk or no content at all in that open space. Or you end up with huge pointless areas like dragon age inquisition. I've seen some fairly good arguments that open world is actually a detriment for players, especially those with limited free time.

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As for free will, it seems a pointless debate. Obviously they don't, there is a script.

There are even some studies that indicate we don't make decisions, just rationalize them after the fact.

I think Force Users have Free Will, it's just that the Dark Side corrupts with it's power, and the Light Side and it's pseudo-religion makes gives it's followers "Holier than thou" attitudes which always lead to their making huge mistakes because they refuse to admit they can do any wrong. So the two sides are always fighting.

Really, both sides are corrupted by their power, when you really get down to it.