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My friend on the bottom of the Earth just sent me this on Facebook:

Just a reminder that in New Zealand a single imperial Vostroyan Guardsman is $50 (I think about £27 for us Englanders). So, for this new years, I want all all to be thankful for our averaged price models for 20% off from our LFGS while people all over the world are less fortunate and have to pay a small fortune for a fraction of the army we own. May the Emperor protect your wallets!

Seriously though, people say shipping and tax increase the price but this is crazy! If this is what it's like for every corporation then why hasn't NZ's economy collapsed over night? Just to put this in perspective, for less than the price of 4 special weapons single models I bought myself a Battle wagon, Trikeboss and 4 Ork Hq's this christmas!

Even the standard sterling price of £15 for a single is pretty outrageous in context lol

How much for a 2000 point army?

Another proof that Australia does not exist. Noone could live in such a country: this is just a fairytale, a bogeyman ("if you aren't kind, GW will rise its price to 50$ a single guardsman !) !

Our minimum, in NZ, may be around 15% higher than those in UK; but everything costs at least 50% more here. Even for digital products. Hell my rent is 50% more than my income.

Some people call it the antipodes tax, companies charge us more because we have no choice but to pay it. And tourists wonder why everything (even NZ grown food) is so expensive.

GW price increases and skyrocketing rent has forced me into a GW hobby hibernation.

And FYI at minimum wage, at the lowest tax bracket, it will take 30 hrs of work just to pay my rent. And my rent is low for my area. It would be even be dearer if I lived in Auckland our biggest city.

If you want an all metal army in NZ, you had to buy it 20+ years ago.

Tygre wrote:
Our minimum, in NZ, may be around 15% higher than those in UK; but everything costs at least 50% more here. Even for digital products. Hell my rent is 50% more than my income.

Some people call it the antipodes tax, companies charge us more because we have no choice but to pay it. And tourists wonder why everything (even NZ grown food) is so expensive.

GW price increases and skyrocketing rent has forced me into a GW hobby hibernation.

And FYI at minimum wage, at the lowest tax bracket, it will take 30 hrs of work just to pay my rent. And my rent is low for my area. It would be even be dearer if I lived in Auckland our biggest city.

If you want an all metal army in NZ, you had to buy it 20+ years ago.

Rent for me is about £90 a week, bills and wifi included.

 lolman1c wrote:

Tygre wrote:
Our minimum, in NZ, may be around 15% higher than those in UK; but everything costs at least 50% more here. Even for digital products. Hell my rent is 50% more than my income.

Some people call it the antipodes tax, companies charge us more because we have no choice but to pay it. And tourists wonder why everything (even NZ grown food) is so expensive.

GW price increases and skyrocketing rent has forced me into a GW hobby hibernation.

And FYI at minimum wage, at the lowest tax bracket, it will take 30 hrs of work just to pay my rent. And my rent is low for my area. It would be even be dearer if I lived in Auckland our biggest city.

If you want an all metal army in NZ, you had to buy it 20+ years ago.

Rent for me is about £90 a week, bills and wifi included.

Your share of the rent as you have flatmates or all up? I do have flatmates that is how I survive. £90 is about what I charge my flatmates for rent, power, water, and wifi. There is no place in NZ where I could rent by myself for £90.

For the Vostroyans on the last chance to buy, they may as well as said "no available in NZ".

Marxist artist wrote:
How much for a 2000 point army?

I did the maths, presuming you take the most expensive options available to you and ignored the $50 special weapons it would cost you about $2,800 for 2,000 pts. Enough to buy a few titans and a 2,000pts army in england. XD Seriously, this has to be a joke. They're selling 20+ year old models for double what you would have bought them for when they first came out. XD. It's a scam. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tygre wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

Tygre wrote:
Our minimum, in NZ, may be around 15% higher than those in UK; but everything costs at least 50% more here. Even for digital products. Hell my rent is 50% more than my income.

Some people call it the antipodes tax, companies charge us more because we have no choice but to pay it. And tourists wonder why everything (even NZ grown food) is so expensive.

GW price increases and skyrocketing rent has forced me into a GW hobby hibernation.

And FYI at minimum wage, at the lowest tax bracket, it will take 30 hrs of work just to pay my rent. And my rent is low for my area. It would be even be dearer if I lived in Auckland our biggest city.

If you want an all metal army in NZ, you had to buy it 20+ years ago.

Rent for me is about £90 a week, bills and wifi included.

Your share of the rent as you have flatmates or all up? I do have flatmates that is how I survive. £90 is about what I charge my flatmates for rent, power, water, and wifi. There is no place in NZ where I could rent by myself for £90.

For the Vostroyans on the last chance to buy, they may as well as said "no available in NZ".

This is a flat by myself but it's kinda like a student flat where you get a small room with your own kitchen and toilet. I share with my partner so it's only £50. I did share an awesome house with people I never saw a few years ago for about £80?a week including al bills and stuff. But min wage here is like £7.83 ore something so it's about 12 hours of work to pay rent... and we do about 40-50 hours of work a week. Get a good job and it's even les... or just be like me and be a student forever until the university hires you. XD

Jesus Christ, I knew it was bad over there, never thought it was that bad. At that price I could choose between a month of my rent in London, or 20 Guardsmen, they shouldn't ever, ever be remotely comparable.

Surely GW must recognise that this isn't the way to go around it? Even with the issue of "they have no choice but to pay these prices", they must lose out on customers leaving the hobby than they would gain from ones buying at these higher prices?

Press F for those down under.

Compare this to something like pig iron miniatures. You get 4x metal 28mm sci fi special weapons troopers for 16.20 AUD. Or perry miniatures where 6 high quaility 28mm metal infantry for 7 pounds. Gw pricing is absurd. There are many products from gw I want to buy, but its just not worth it!

These prices are ridiculous. Who could honestly look at $50 NZD for a single metal guardsman with a grenade launcher and thinks thats okay?

I've felt it too. Couldn't resist that N O I S E Y B O I before stock ran out, but at $75 for a single Marine it wasn't much better. We're not talking Calgar here.

Pretty sure it's cheaper to buy the entire squad as well, wtf is up with that?

Just as well you don't have to buy it.

 Hollow wrote:
Just as well you don't have to buy it.

You don't have to buy anything except food and water but you can still discuss the pricing of things on the market that lie within your interests.

Australian pricing isn't much better.

Same model, AUD40. To put that in context, I can buy 40L of milk at the supermarket for that, or a 700ml bottle of reasonable whiskey (heavily taxed in AU). I'd have to work just over 2 hours to pay for it.

15 pounds = AUD27. AUD40 = 22.22 pounds. So, about 150% of what Brits pay. I can buy normal 40K stuff from a UK eBay seller at UK retail, pay freight to AU and still save decent money compared to driving to the nearest GW shop. I don't buy anything more expensive than paint locally now.

Now, back to the model itself. One special weapons trooper is the same price as a 2 man heavy weapons team, 1 officer, or 2 man sniper team. I can't think of any way they are equivalent- materials, in game efficiency, weight- that would justify them being the same price, but here we are.

Haha, I just noticed that the squad with a heavy weapon team is only 20.5 pounds. So, the other 8 guys are only worth 5.5 pounds?

I think we can all agree that GW's pricing structure is arbitrary. There is no internal coherency or formula.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Surely GW must recognise that this isn't the way to go around it? Even with the issue of "they have no choice but to pay these prices", they must lose out on customers leaving the hobby than they would gain from ones buying at these higher prices?

And what they are supposed to do?

Honest question, I had a chat with (not GW, but similar seller) sales representative in my country. Australia right now has right wing government that prioritizes extraction industry to the exclusion of everything else making doing business there basically impossible. If you're small time seller, you can try smuggling in goods and hoping they won't get hit with a tax. Someone on the scale of GW? Not only cost of shipping + big taxes, absurd property prices make running warehouses and stores really expensive driving prices up. You want to maybe open a production plant in Australia to dodge the issue? Good luck, racist immigration laws make bringing in experienced crew from another country to train locals nearly impossible, never mind them doing anything more serious than that.

Add to that extremely loud recast apologist minority using really dumb arguments (like the fact they demand lowest prices than even the poorest countries in EU get, in a country with nearly highest wages in the world* before they consider even looking at GW despite easily spending thousands on chinese stolen crap...) that further raises the prices by sabotaging demand side of the equation, and it is what it is.

*to the point if you were to price GW minis in % of local wage, AU would suddenly be very far from the top...

I personally find a lot of AU entitlement kind of laughable, I still remember 40K scene in Poland in 90s (when Polish wages were tiny fraction of Western ones, to the point the "$50" equivalent for a single mini wasn't an outlier, but actually a generous case) and somehow players did not try to excuse piracy, even though it was technically legal then (it was before Poland even had IP laws). People did more with less, used cheaper paints and glue, greenstuffed a lot, picked cheaper armies, but I can't recall even a single case of recast mini that I can recall, despite studying in the city with second largest 40K scene in the country back then. At best, you saw proxies and counts as, no counterfeits.

I can still recall two of the most beautiful 40K armies I have ever saw, both done on shoestring budget, with cheap enamel paints on garden grade primer, but the skill of painter and conversions were absolutely stunning. Neither army included even a single stolen mini despite both players being far below what would today be called poverty line - like, literally making about 100$ per month. And this is not exaggeration - average monthly Polish wage only broke the 300$ barrier in 2001. When I hear people making ~1800$ per week (actual median wage in Australia, last year) whining about prices being 'too high' I just roll my eyes. Especially when said customer digs deeper and mentions 'necessity' of buying toxic recasts to 'even be able to play' then shows pic of his multiple full size HH armies...

 Irbis wrote:
When I hear people making ~1800$ per week (actual median wage in Australia, last year) whining about prices being 'too high' I just roll my eyes.

Not the actual median wage in Australia, last year, even in the highest earning state. https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/how-much-do-you-need-to-earn-to-be-rich-in-australia/news-story/cd7e6647199773c56ad5a9270c7aab87

Also the cost of living is higher in different countries. If you get paid 30% more than someone in a different country, but pay 60% more on everything you buy, you're poorer than them at the end of the day even if your paycheck looks larger. This is economics.

I don't think "Australian entitlement" is as big a thing as you claim. We know the "Australian tax" is a real thing, we've had a government commission into it confirming it. Companies do overcharge Australia simply because they can, from the words of the companies themselves.

 Irbis wrote:
Poland in 90s (when Polish wages were tiny fraction of Western ones, to the point the "$50" equivalent for a single mini wasn't an outlier, but actually a generous case) and somehow players did not try to excuse piracy

Completely different climate. Even in Australia people weren't cool with recasts in the 90s, and now most people seem to be cool with it internationally. This is a false equivalency.

 Irbis wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Surely GW must recognise that this isn't the way to go around it? Even with the issue of "they have no choice but to pay these prices", they must lose out on customers leaving the hobby than they would gain from ones buying at these higher prices?

And what they are supposed to do?

Honest question, I had a chat with (not GW, but similar seller) sales representative in my country. Australia right now has right wing government that prioritizes extraction industry to the exclusion of everything else making doing business there basically impossible. If you're small time seller, you can try smuggling in goods and hoping they won't get hit with a tax. Someone on the scale of GW? Not only cost of shipping + big taxes, absurd property prices make running warehouses and stores really expensive driving prices up. You want to maybe open a production plant in Australia to dodge the issue? Good luck, racist immigration laws make bringing in experienced crew from another country to train locals nearly impossible, never mind them doing anything more serious than that. Right-wing? Racist? Really? Where do you get your information? CNN? As for smuggling and tax avoidance- Why bother? Yes, you pay GST on the imported goods, but collect more GST when you sell them. The paperwork isn't hard if you keep reasonable sales records. I'll give you the absurd property prices and even throw in wages, though I suspect they are actually higher in the UK. Freight isn't as much as you'd expect, unless you want to priority air freight everything.

Add to that extremely loud recast apologist minority using really dumb arguments (like the fact they demand lowest prices than even the poorest countries in EU get, in a country with nearly highest wages in the world* before they consider even looking at GW despite easily spending thousands on chinese stolen crap...) that further raises the prices by sabotaging demand side of the equation, and it is what it is. No idea who you're talking about here, but places with high wages usually also have a high cost of living, as well as the absurd property prices you mentioned earlier.

*to the point if you were to price GW minis in % of local wage, AU would suddenly be very far from the top...

I personally find a lot of AU entitlement kind of laughable, I still remember 40K scene in Poland in 90s (when Polish wages were tiny fraction of Western ones, to the point the "$50" equivalent for a single mini wasn't an outlier, but actually a generous case) and somehow players did not try to excuse piracy, even though it was technically legal then (it was before Poland even had IP laws). People did more with less, used cheaper paints and glue, greenstuffed a lot, picked cheaper armies, but I can't recall even a single case of recast mini that I can recall, despite studying in the city with second largest 40K scene in the country back then. At best, you saw proxies and counts as, no counterfeits. You realise that even online distributed content costs more for Australians, despite the distribution cost being identical?

I can still recall two of the most beautiful 40K armies I have ever saw, both done on shoestring budget, with cheap enamel paints on garden grade primer, but the skill of painter and conversions were absolutely stunning. Neither army included even a single stolen mini despite both players being far below what would today be called poverty line - like, literally making about 100$ per month. And this is not exaggeration - average monthly Polish wage only broke the 300$ barrier in 2001. When I hear people making ~1800$ per week (actual median wage in Australia, last year) whining about prices being 'too high' I just roll my eyes. Especially when said customer digs deeper and mentions 'necessity' of buying toxic recasts to 'even be able to play' then shows pic of his multiple full size HH armies... You realise that median doesn't mean everyone, right? I wish I made that much a week! I don't make that in 2 weeks working full time. No idea which Australian customer you're referring to.

 Irbis wrote:

Honest question, I had a chat with (not GW, but similar seller) sales representative in my country. Australia right now has right wing government that prioritizes extraction industry to the exclusion of everything else making doing business there basically impossible. If you're small time seller, you can try smuggling in goods and hoping they won't get hit with a tax. Someone on the scale of GW? Not only cost of shipping + big taxes, absurd property prices make running warehouses and stores really expensive driving prices up. You want to maybe open a production plant in Australia to dodge the issue? Good luck, racist immigration laws make bringing in experienced crew from another country to train locals nearly impossible, never mind them doing anything more serious than that.

I don't think that's quite accurate, but I'm not going to let this get sidetracked into discussing the current state of Aussie politics with you so lets just hypothetically say everything you said about the current government is correct. GW overcharging Australians well and truly pre-dates both the import tax and the current government, so that doesn't explain anything. In fact if anything, the prices are actually closer these days than they used to be.

Reasons like this just seem to be searching for whatever justification that can be found because we don't want to admit that yeah, they probably do it because they can and everyone else does.

People did more with less, used cheaper paints and glue, greenstuffed a lot, picked cheaper armies, but I can't recall even a single case of recast mini that I can recall, despite studying in the city with second largest 40K scene in the country back then. At best, you saw proxies and counts as, no counterfeits.

No idea in which city you live and play, but Warsaw had a ton of recasters. Partyzant got so big at some point that GW themselfs sent him a C&D And recasting FW turrets or weapons was a normal thing. Before I quit playing in 4th, recasting was huge. I remember buying 60 resin bikers, just before I quit. The only place that didn't have a booming recast community in the 90s were Katowice, and it wasn't even a thing, because they didn't want to, they just didn't have skilled people to do it.

You realise that median doesn't mean everyone, right? I wish I made that much a week! I don't make that in 2 weeks working full time. No idea which Australian customer you're referring to.

It still means the majority cluster around the number. And prices like rent are tax and never fixed for those with lowest, or even under avarge income. They are always put up to hit the largest paying group aka the middle class. Thank the succesful mining industry for high cost of everything. But I understand what you try to say by that. No one earns the avarge per capita salary either. Everyone either gets a lot less or a lot more.

I don't get why people seem to think companies overcharge Australians "just because".

I've heard Australian import paperwork is a nightmare, and trying to deal with the government to get permission distribute digital content is equally horrid. From a purely outsider perspective, it seems to me that Australians pay more for things because they live on a fething island in the middle of the ocean, far from any other developed countries and it is a pain in the ass to get anything there. Additionally, dealing with the extremely strict import and digital distribution laws mean companies charge more for the headache. The result is absurdly high prices for things that people from most other countries take for granted. Go figure.

I lived in Hawaii briefly and the prices there were ridiculous too because basically everything had to be imported.

w1zard wrote:
I don't get why people seem to think companies overcharge Australians "just because".

Because it's true.

https://delimiter.com.au/2013/02/18/adobe-faces-piracy-backlash-over-australian-pricing/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/03/22/higher-prices-in-australia-from-apple-adobe-and-microsoft-because-they-can/

w1zard wrote:
I've heard Australian import paperwork is a nightmare, and trying to deal with the government to get permission distribute digital content is equally horrid.

Articles above are related to this and shows this to not be the cause of it at all

w1zard wrote:
I've heard Australian import paperwork is a nightmare, and trying to deal with the government to get permission distribute digital content is equally horrid. From a purely outsider perspective, it seems to me that Australians pay more for things because they live on a fething island in the middle of the ocean, far from any other developed countries and it is a pain in the ass to get anything there. Additionally, dealing with the extremely strict import and digital distribution laws mean companies charge more for the headache. The result is absurdly high prices for things that people from most other countries take for granted. Go figure.

I lived in Hawaii briefly and the prices there were ridiculous too because basically everything had to be imported.

Feel free to source any of those vaguely described strict import laws you refer to and we'll go over whether or not they could be responsible for the price hikes Australia and NZ have both seen for the past 20 years.

When you can fly overseas, purchase a product, spend a night in a hotel, fly back, and still be saving money from the alternative of purchasing it from your own country, you can rest assured that the issue here isn't shipping. Companies get distribution and shipping deals and pay way less for it than we do.

I just don't understand the lengths some people will go to trying to rationalise this on behalf of these companies who don't have an explanation themselves. Why would people would think that it's the corporations over charging, when surely it's just [insert half-informed speculation or guesswork] responsible for these prices! Surely these honest, integrity filled, multi million/billion dollar corporations would never try to take advantage of an isolated market with no immediate neighbours, by price gouging?

This is a documented phenomenon , I don't get why it is so difficult to believe that companies do this.

 lolman1c wrote:
They're selling 20+ year old models for double what you would have bought them for when they first came out. XD. It's a scam. XD

Point of order, lolman1c - the Vostroyans aren't one of 20+ year old IG regiments (that would be the metal Cadian, Catachan, Tallarn, Valhallan and Mordian, with the Praetorians probably joining that group this year, I think).

The Vostroyans were a 2006 release, which means they're only 12 years old...

Zillian wrote:
Now, back to the model itself. One special weapons trooper is the same price as a 2 man heavy weapons team, 1 officer, or 2 man sniper team. I can't think of any way they are equivalent- materials, in game efficiency, weight- that would justify them being the same price, but here we are.

Aye, this I can agree with - the multiple different things on the same price point with different values in terms of points, materials and usability (you'll use more special/heavy weapons than officers, for example) makes very little sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

People did more with less, used cheaper paints and glue, greenstuffed a lot, picked cheaper armies, but I can't recall even a single case of recast mini that I can recall, despite studying in the city with second largest 40K scene in the country back then. At best, you saw proxies and counts as, no counterfeits.

No idea in which city you live and play, but Warsaw had a ton of recasters. Partyzant got so big at some point that GW themselfs sent him a C&D And recasting FW turrets or weapons was a normal thing. Before I quit playing in 4th, recasting was huge. I remember buying 60 resin bikers, just before I quit. The only place that didn't have a booming recast community in the 90s were Katowice, and it wasn't even a thing, because they didn't want to, they just didn't have skilled people to do it.

So, Karol, about this narrative of you being the oppressed Grey Knights player of 13/14 years of age...

If you previously quit playing during 4th edition, that would mean you quit between 2004 & 2008, or 10-14 years ago - potentially before you've been claiming you were born.

Care to explain?

Yeah blurting out Median income statistics is a waste of time as such numbers are skewed by a minority of high income earners. Such is statistics; they can be twisted to prove whatever the hell you want them to when you know how.
Now if you were to work of the Mode income, youd most likely see a more accurate picture. I know i sure as hell dont earn 1800 a week. Heck, i often dont even see that much a month.
I can slog my guts out, breaking my back working 7 days a week between 3 different jobs to provide for my family and sometimes come out with 450 bucks for the week after being taxed into the ground.
That i can tell you, is the average picture.

Now back onto the model. Egads, didnt think id see something more expensive than a special weapon battlesister. One off made to order markup i guess.

Stupid people will still pay £15/$50 so GW will continue to charge this money.
So yes it's outrageous. But you the fanbase caused it.

ValentineGames wrote:
Stupid people will still pay £15/$50 so GW will continue to charge this money.
So yes it's outrageous. But you the fanbase caused it.

I for one wont ( after reading through this thread) be buying any of these overpriced metal miniatures.
/ F you guys

2,000 points of these guards can buy a person 10,000 points of most other armies. XD

I would expect that NZ gets ignored from any fair pricing because we typically purchase from other countries and ship it here for half the price.

Get Started sets are usually around $165. From UK including shipping it is around $90. Cheaper if you share shipping.

This means we don't probably show as having many players.