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An idea for a more diverse KoM army for KoW version 3 (whenever that may come around)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User




In the past I would have posted this on the mantic forum to discuss with the community as I've got ideas from time to time that may help the game.... or not, but that's for the community to decide. I;m curious what you think.

Anyhow, while i do love to collect and paint my KoM armies (I own two...), I don't like them on the battlefield. This is partially due to their limited unit roster (actually, it;s not limited, but the units are very similar) .
So my kingdoms of men armies are fielded very often as brotherhoor or league, which are a lot more diverse.

That said, I wanted to share some ideas to make the KoM army sightly more diverse without expanding the unit roster.
First; let's adress the shooters.

Frankly said, both crossbowmen and arquebussiers are shyte as they can only stand doing nothing to fire while costing a bucketload of points. I haven't seen a serious army featuring either for a long time.
Archers are a bit too expensive too, for what they do, but they have their use as chaff-that-can fire.

I'd love to have a different role for each, so they actually add something to the army:
a) archers should be able to vanguard, creating some kind of skirmishing screen in front of the army.
b) Crossbowmen should have an ability to help them in missile exchanges.
c) Arquebussiers to change their role from long-ranged fire support to short ranged flank guards.

Ideas are worked out on my blog:
https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/07/an-idea-for-more-diversity-in-the-kom-army-for-kow3/

I'd really like to know what you think!

Vince


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 12:33:51


 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

30" range for crossbows / arq or just allowing them to actually move and fire would certainly help make them useful. Otherwise, they need to be quite a bit cheaper. Crossbowmen would be really cool if they could get pavises, probably not great in game, so would be cheap, and looks great. Splits them from just being worse Arqs as well.

I like the idea of just merging League and KoM to help out the rooster issue, they share (or almost share) a lot of units anyways.

   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska

Merging KoM with LoRh makes a lot of sense to me too. I have a couple hundred painted Humans (Empire/Brets) but it is hard for me to get excited about using them in a fantasy game for KoM when there are no exotic fantasy creatures (other than Beasts of Burden and General on Winged Beast). I like the inclusion of Ogres for KoM in Vanguard, that is a move in the right direction.


May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Canada

Your link didn't work for me, so I did some Googling and this URL worked for me.

So if anyone else has the same issue as I did, try this one:

https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/07/an-idea-for-more-diversity-in-the-kom-army-for-kow3/
   
Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User




bartok wrote:
Your link didn't work for me, so I did some Googling and this URL worked for me.

So if anyone else has the same issue as I did, try this one:

https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/07/an-idea-for-more-diversity-in-the-kom-army-for-kow3/


Thanks! I've updated the link in my first post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arctic Dragon wrote:
Merging KoM with LoRh makes a lot of sense to me too. I have a couple hundred painted Humans (Empire/Brets) but it is hard for me to get excited about using them in a fantasy game for KoM when there are no exotic fantasy creatures (other than Beasts of Burden and General on Winged Beast). I like the inclusion of Ogres for KoM in Vanguard, that is a move in the right direction.



KoM and League are 50% identical, so merging them would make sense. I'd love to have honour guard (represented by war elephants in my army) in my KoM army, while I don't really see the need for halflings. Not that I want them gone, but I'd rather have more humies!

   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska


'Changing the arqs from piercing (1) to Breath weapon will change their battlefield role enormously. They will guard flanks/rears from fliers or be used for chaff-clearing duty.
"
This was my favorite suggestion. I don't know how tactically awesome this would be but it opens up a thematic expression for blackpowder being used by light skirmishers.

May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





When i first read the title I thought you were thinking about how getting an army with 50% female troops, different skin colors and some visible members of the LGBTQ community...

i like your actual intention better. as for my actual thoughts, if i were in charge of the KoW balancing I would probably just try to make the crossbowmen have the same cost as the archers and leave it at that.

i get your argument in your post, but to me its "ok" if different armies have different "strengths". so if the elven options for archers are better and still cheap in comparison to the KoM ones: thats OK but they dont have... CANNONS

but let me stress: i think you have put much more thought into this and into balancing than i ever would so i wouldn't say my opinion has much weight

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 10:32:23


 
   
Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User




Schmendrick wrote:
When i first read the title I thought you were thinking about how getting an army with 50% female troops, different skin colors and some visible members of the LGBTQ community...

(.....)


This is, of course, a grossly underrepresented problem in many armies and the wargaming community as a whole. Thanks for pointing that out! How would you tackle such a serious problem?

Aside of course from a wizard's staff that has a knob on its end. https://www.lspace.org/fandom/songs/wizards-staff-2.html

On a more serious matter... how'd you like Kingdoms of men cannons? I have some use for siege artillery and I do like the Rhordian organ guns, but can't see how to make cannons work. Not even with the formation. Maybe in a siege, but still.....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 14:55:45


 
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





This is, of course, a grossly underrepresented problem in many armies and the wargaming community as a whole. Thanks for pointing that out! How would you tackle such a serious problem?


so true. but i am very careful what i answer on this. there are trolls left and right, (as this is a fantasy forum even more so!). and then of course the troll hunters. i do not want to catch the attention of any.

as i see are proficient with discworld. i therefore would point you to a fact that that will make you realize it is not that grave of a problem:

female dwarfs have beards too. my whole dwarfen army therefore is already what i choose it to be.

on the other hand, in "my" usual fantasy lore (also when doing RPGs), goblins do their reproduction by "growing" new goblins. depending on the "world" they sometimes cut up one of the goblins and bury it in a specially prepared soil and some time later new goblins dig themselves out. therefore there are neither male nor femaile goblins. conclusion: my goblin army is also very progressive as none of them identify as neither male nor female. and as Mantica has not made any explanations about THEIR goblins yet (at least as far as i am aware of), I can safely assume that my fantasy lore about goblin reproductio applies to the Mantica Goblins as well!

now i have very many models but because i own those two mentioned armies, i can be quite satisfied with the overall diversity i have!

i therefore encourage everyone to buy more Mantic dwarven and goblin units especially if you dont have any yet!

that is all i will say on that subject so to keep my hobby light and joyful because thats also what i want my hobby to be.

On a more serious matter... how'd you like Kingdoms of men cannons? I have some use for siege artillery and I do like the Rhordian organ guns, but can't see how to make cannons work. Not even with the formation. Maybe in a siege, but still.....


i own an old WHFB army and i have the cannons and the organ guns. to be frank, i played them with KoW only 2 times so far. i just field(ed) them because i have them and i think they look cool, i am not a competitive player. what i remember was that i thougt they did a good job when i used them against the goblin giant. my overall "feeling" as far as i remember was: if i field more than 1 then i am sure to hit something in a round and hurt it (at least a bit). i was happy with that. a also field arquebusiers, but left out my bowmen (which are actually bretons) as well as the crossbowmen.
tough now that i think of it i lost both games but that can be coincidene.

BTW: i dont yet know the siege stuff because I dont have a CoK 2019. In fact so far I am usually playing "vanilla" KoW even though I have the Abyss campaign and CoK 2018. but i/we stick usually stick to the main rulebook for simplicity reasons.
   
Made in gb
Leashed Pupnik




SW London

I agree that the lack of an advantage for crossbowmen, other than cost, makes them seem an uninspiring pick. I'd like to see them given an option for pavises (higher def vs shooting) or an extra 6" range over arqs.

I'd also agree that rolling KoM and LoRh together would make for more interesting and flexible lists.
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

For cannons to become useful and still feel like cannons, I think they should gain breath 8-10 (without piercing) to represent canister shot. Makes them into decent allrounders, not as good as siege artillery at range, not as good as organ guns up close, but decent at both.

   
Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User




 Illumini wrote:
For cannons to become useful and still feel like cannons, I think they should gain breath 8-10 (without piercing) to represent canister shot. Makes them into decent allrounders, not as good as siege artillery at range, not as good as organ guns up close, but decent at both.


They used to have breath weapon in KoW version 1. In KoW2 this was scrapped as the RC wanted to have disctinctively different war machines for the short and long range.

As for now, a single shot, Reload!, ra 5+ war machine is too unreliable to become useful in this version of KoW. I mean, siege artillery is slightly more useful (due to ignoring cover and therefore hitting the targets you want usually @ 5+), but even those are seen as too much hit-and-miss.

In KoW3, war machines will need to be redesigned to become more useful. Ironically, as in KoW1 they were overpowered.
That said, not all war machines are crap. The shorter ranged war machines are pretty useful. (War trombones, volley guns, dragon breath), it's the single target-high piercing-long range war machines that don't work well.
I have some ideas how to, but will need to think it through before dropping them somewhere. I might make a blogpost on this subjes one time.
   
 
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