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Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

In the past I would have posted this on the mantic forum to discuss with the community as I've got ideas from time to time that may help the game.... or not, but that's for the community to decide. I;m curious what you think.

Anyhow, while i do love to collect and paint my KoM armies (I own two...), I don't like them on the battlefield. This is partially due to their limited unit roster (actually, it;s not limited, but the units are very similar) .
So my kingdoms of men armies are fielded very often as brotherhoor or league, which are a lot more diverse.

That said, I wanted to share some ideas to make the KoM army sightly more diverse without expanding the unit roster.
First; let's adress the shooters.

Frankly said, both crossbowmen and arquebussiers are shyte as they can only stand doing nothing to fire while costing a bucketload of points. I haven't seen a serious army featuring either for a long time.
Archers are a bit too expensive too, for what they do, but they have their use as chaff-that-can fire.

I'd love to have a different role for each, so they actually add something to the army:
a) archers should be able to vanguard, creating some kind of skirmishing screen in front of the army.
b) Crossbowmen should have an ability to help them in missile exchanges.
c) Arquebussiers to change their role from long-ranged fire support to short ranged flank guards.

Ideas are worked out on my blog:
https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/07/an-idea-for-more-diversity-in-the-kom-army-for-kow3/

I'd really like to know what you think!

Vince


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 21:12:56


My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

30" range for crossbows / arq or just allowing them to actually move and fire would certainly help make them useful. Otherwise, they need to be quite a bit cheaper. Crossbowmen would be really cool if they could get pavises, probably not great in game, so would be cheap, and looks great. Splits them from just being worse Arqs as well.

I like the idea of just merging League and KoM to help out the rooster issue, they share (or almost share) a lot of units anyways.

   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska

Merging KoM with LoRh makes a lot of sense to me too. I have a couple hundred painted Humans (Empire/Brets) but it is hard for me to get excited about using them in a fantasy game for KoM when there are no exotic fantasy creatures (other than Beasts of Burden and General on Winged Beast). I like the inclusion of Ogres for KoM in Vanguard, that is a move in the right direction.


May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Canada

Your link didn't work for me, so I did some Googling and this URL worked for me.

So if anyone else has the same issue as I did, try this one:

https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/07/an-idea-for-more-diversity-in-the-kom-army-for-kow3/
   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

bartok wrote:
Your link didn't work for me, so I did some Googling and this URL worked for me.

So if anyone else has the same issue as I did, try this one:

https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/07/an-idea-for-more-diversity-in-the-kom-army-for-kow3/


Thanks! I've updated the link in my first post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Arctic Dragon wrote:
Merging KoM with LoRh makes a lot of sense to me too. I have a couple hundred painted Humans (Empire/Brets) but it is hard for me to get excited about using them in a fantasy game for KoM when there are no exotic fantasy creatures (other than Beasts of Burden and General on Winged Beast). I like the inclusion of Ogres for KoM in Vanguard, that is a move in the right direction.



KoM and League are 50% identical, so merging them would make sense. I'd love to have honour guard (represented by war elephants in my army) in my KoM army, while I don't really see the need for halflings. Not that I want them gone, but I'd rather have more humies!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/07 21:15:07


My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska


'Changing the arqs from piercing (1) to Breath weapon will change their battlefield role enormously. They will guard flanks/rears from fliers or be used for chaff-clearing duty.
"
This was my favorite suggestion. I don't know how tactically awesome this would be but it opens up a thematic expression for blackpowder being used by light skirmishers.

May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





When i first read the title I thought you were thinking about how getting an army with 50% female troops, different skin colors and some visible members of the LGBTQ community...

i like your actual intention better. as for my actual thoughts, if i were in charge of the KoW balancing I would probably just try to make the crossbowmen have the same cost as the archers and leave it at that.

i get your argument in your post, but to me its "ok" if different armies have different "strengths". so if the elven options for archers are better and still cheap in comparison to the KoM ones: thats OK but they dont have... CANNONS

but let me stress: i think you have put much more thought into this and into balancing than i ever would so i wouldn't say my opinion has much weight

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 10:33:53


 
   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

Schmendrick wrote:
When i first read the title I thought you were thinking about how getting an army with 50% female troops, different skin colors and some visible members of the LGBTQ community...

(.....)


This is, of course, a grossly underrepresented problem in many armies and the wargaming community as a whole. Thanks for pointing that out! How would you tackle such a serious problem?

Aside of course from a wizard's staff that has a knob on its end. https://www.lspace.org/fandom/songs/wizards-staff-2.html

On a more serious matter... how'd you like Kingdoms of men cannons? I have some use for siege artillery and I do like the Rhordian organ guns, but can't see how to make cannons work. Not even with the formation. Maybe in a siege, but still.....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 15:07:48


My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





This is, of course, a grossly underrepresented problem in many armies and the wargaming community as a whole. Thanks for pointing that out! How would you tackle such a serious problem?


so true. but i am very careful what i answer on this. there are trolls left and right, (as this is a fantasy forum even more so!). and then of course the troll hunters. i do not want to catch the attention of any.

as i see are proficient with discworld. i therefore would point you to a fact that that will make you realize it is not that grave of a problem:

female dwarfs have beards too. my whole dwarfen army therefore is already what i choose it to be.

on the other hand, in "my" usual fantasy lore (also when doing RPGs), goblins do their reproduction by "growing" new goblins. depending on the "world" they sometimes cut up one of the goblins and bury it in a specially prepared soil and some time later new goblins dig themselves out. therefore there are neither male nor femaile goblins. conclusion: my goblin army is also very progressive as none of them identify as neither male nor female. and as Mantica has not made any explanations about THEIR goblins yet (at least as far as i am aware of), I can safely assume that my fantasy lore about goblin reproductio applies to the Mantica Goblins as well!

now i have very many models but because i own those two mentioned armies, i can be quite satisfied with the overall diversity i have!

i therefore encourage everyone to buy more Mantic dwarven and goblin units especially if you dont have any yet!

that is all i will say on that subject so to keep my hobby light and joyful because thats also what i want my hobby to be.

On a more serious matter... how'd you like Kingdoms of men cannons? I have some use for siege artillery and I do like the Rhordian organ guns, but can't see how to make cannons work. Not even with the formation. Maybe in a siege, but still.....


i own an old WHFB army and i have the cannons and the organ guns. to be frank, i played them with KoW only 2 times so far. i just field(ed) them because i have them and i think they look cool, i am not a competitive player. what i remember was that i thougt they did a good job when i used them against the goblin giant. my overall "feeling" as far as i remember was: if i field more than 1 then i am sure to hit something in a round and hurt it (at least a bit). i was happy with that. a also field arquebusiers, but left out my bowmen (which are actually bretons) as well as the crossbowmen.
tough now that i think of it i lost both games but that can be coincidene.

BTW: i dont yet know the siege stuff because I dont have a CoK 2019. In fact so far I am usually playing "vanilla" KoW even though I have the Abyss campaign and CoK 2018. but i/we stick usually stick to the main rulebook for simplicity reasons.
   
Made in gb
Ultraviolent Morlock




SW London

I agree that the lack of an advantage for crossbowmen, other than cost, makes them seem an uninspiring pick. I'd like to see them given an option for pavises (higher def vs shooting) or an extra 6" range over arqs.

I'd also agree that rolling KoM and LoRh together would make for more interesting and flexible lists.
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

For cannons to become useful and still feel like cannons, I think they should gain breath 8-10 (without piercing) to represent canister shot. Makes them into decent allrounders, not as good as siege artillery at range, not as good as organ guns up close, but decent at both.

   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

 Illumini wrote:
For cannons to become useful and still feel like cannons, I think they should gain breath 8-10 (without piercing) to represent canister shot. Makes them into decent allrounders, not as good as siege artillery at range, not as good as organ guns up close, but decent at both.


They used to have breath weapon in KoW version 1. In KoW2 this was scrapped as the RC wanted to have disctinctively different war machines for the short and long range.

As for now, a single shot, Reload!, ra 5+ war machine is too unreliable to become useful in this version of KoW. I mean, siege artillery is slightly more useful (due to ignoring cover and therefore hitting the targets you want usually @ 5+), but even those are seen as too much hit-and-miss.

In KoW3, war machines will need to be redesigned to become more useful. Ironically, as in KoW1 they were overpowered.
That said, not all war machines are crap. The shorter ranged war machines are pretty useful. (War trombones, volley guns, dragon breath), it's the single target-high piercing-long range war machines that don't work well.
I have some ideas how to, but will need to think it through before dropping them somewhere. I might make a blogpost on this subjes one time.

My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in gb
Ultraviolent Morlock




SW London

I'd also agree on the warmacines - more attacks, lower blast would make them more reliable at forcing a check - less all or nothing.
   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska

"I have some ideas how to, but will need to think it through before dropping them somewhere. I might make a blogpost on this subjes one time."

I think this forum could be a good place to discuss your ideas or to reference your blogpost.

May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

 Arctic Dragon wrote:
"I have some ideas how to, but will need to think it through before dropping them somewhere. I might make a blogpost on this subjes one time."

I think this forum could be a good place to discuss your ideas or to reference your blogpost.


Thanks for keeping on top of this! Will do this in the upcoming weeks and of course I'll link the blogpost here!


My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

vince1248 wrote:
 Illumini wrote:
For cannons to become useful and still feel like cannons, I think they should gain breath 8-10 (without piercing) to represent canister shot. Makes them into decent allrounders, not as good as siege artillery at range, not as good as organ guns up close, but decent at both.


They used to have breath weapon in KoW version 1. In KoW2 this was scrapped as the RC wanted to have disctinctively different war machines for the short and long range.

As for now, a single shot, Reload!, ra 5+ war machine is too unreliable to become useful in this version of KoW. I mean, siege artillery is slightly more useful (due to ignoring cover and therefore hitting the targets you want usually @ 5+), but even those are seen as too much hit-and-miss.

In KoW3, war machines will need to be redesigned to become more useful. Ironically, as in KoW1 they were overpowered.
That said, not all war machines are crap. The shorter ranged war machines are pretty useful. (War trombones, volley guns, dragon breath), it's the single target-high piercing-long range war machines that don't work well.
I have some ideas how to, but will need to think it through before dropping them somewhere. I might make a blogpost on this subjes one time.


All indirect artillery and most close range artillery work decently for the points. 4+ to hit long range artillery also does fine. It is pretty much the cannons and maybe some other 5+ direct fire artillery that need a buff. Giving it breath 8 without piercing is a quickfix that is thematic and makes it an unique warmachine.

   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

 Illumini wrote:

All indirect artillery and most close range artillery work decently for the points. 4+ to hit long range artillery also does fine. It is pretty much the cannons and maybe some other 5+ direct fire artillery that need a buff. Giving it breath 8 without piercing is a quickfix that is thematic and makes it an unique warmachine.


Generally I agree with you that the largest problem is with 5+ single attacks, Reload! guns.
The Breath option would solve a lot too. That said, as we've been there and the RC didn;t want to continue that, I have chosen a differnent path.

Also included some other wild ideas.

https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/23/guns-n-glory-ideas-for-a-more-diverse-kom-army-2/

My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

Cool idea with warmachine units. I like the cannon and light cannon units. The siege artillery rule seems too complex.

   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





vince1248 wrote:
 Illumini wrote:

All indirect artillery and most close range artillery work decently for the points. 4+ to hit long range artillery also does fine. It is pretty much the cannons and maybe some other 5+ direct fire artillery that need a buff. Giving it breath 8 without piercing is a quickfix that is thematic and makes it an unique warmachine.


Generally I agree with you that the largest problem is with 5+ single attacks, Reload! guns.
The Breath option would solve a lot too. That said, as we've been there and the RC didn;t want to continue that, I have chosen a differnent path.

Also included some other wild ideas.

https://kingsofwarvince.business.blog/2019/01/23/guns-n-glory-ideas-for-a-more-diverse-kom-army-2/


A nice blog post you did there
Just an idea, what about a new special rule? (i know one needs to be careful with those).

a little bit inspired from WHFB i think of something like:
all units in line between the cannon and the target also get hit (normal LOS applies of course).
this would make it unlikely somebody lets his units be covered by other units?
and at the same time thats ok fluff wise too: a cannon shot has a mighty penetration, so it could go right through multiple troops.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/24 12:44:46


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I wonder if giving the new "colossals" versions of some monster a "big target" rule like in older warhammer edition wouldn't be the perfect fix ?

In summary, the "big target" rule would give +1 to hit them with ranged attacks (you might limit it to "normal" ranged attacks).

This would make canons much more effective against them (in addition to the fact that height 4 monsters already don't get nor give any cover from height 1 or less)

The big target could maybe also be used on hordes and legions, or as an alternative, they might get a different but similar rule that would instead give a bonus to blast and/or breath attacks against them (eitheir to the attack roll, or as a bonus to the blast value) to represent the fact that explosions and similar attacks are very effective against so large number of troops.

Of course costs might have to be slightly revisited, but this would help give regiments a small edge compared to hordes
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





a "big target" rule idea sounded smart for me in the first moment, but now i thought of it a bit i realized that would not only make the KoM cannons more powerful but ALL artillery.
   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

 Schmendrick wrote:
a "big target" rule idea sounded smart for me in the first moment, but now i thought of it a bit i realized that would not only make the KoM cannons more powerful but ALL artillery.


That is true, so that means that this will need to be taken into account when balancing stuff in KoW3.

Until that time, the buff alone for cannon (KoM and dwarven alike) will do.


My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in za
Infiltrating Naga





South Africa

jtrowell wrote:I wonder if giving the new "colossals" versions of some monster a "big target" rule like in older warhammer edition wouldn't be the perfect fix ?

In summary, the "big target" rule would give +1 to hit them with ranged attacks (you might limit it to "normal" ranged attacks).

This would make canons much more effective against them (in addition to the fact that height 4 monsters already don't get nor give any cover from height 1 or less)

The big target could maybe also be used on hordes and legions, or as an alternative, they might get a different but similar rule that would instead give a bonus to blast and/or breath attacks against them (eitheir to the attack roll, or as a bonus to the blast value) to represent the fact that explosions and similar attacks are very effective against so large number of troops.

Of course costs might have to be slightly revisited, but this would help give regiments a small edge compared to hordes

No.
Please no.
The core philosophy of KoW's design is to keep it as simple and elegant as possible. You're suggesting more rules and a entire extra level of complexity (which is going to interact with EVERYTHING complicate the balance of all units and armies and change how many armies work) . That's the opposite of what has been keeping the game good.

That's how you get a rules mess like Warhammer, adding "little things that are cool",
those add up and have to interact with each other to make a bloated mess infested with loopholes for donkey-caves to exploit. Said donkey-caves then bring netlists and toxicity to the community.

To the OP: KoM have a wide variety of battlefield roles covered, you really don't need more options. The rest of your post sounds like you're griping about you units not being powerful enough. Why would they be especially powerful?
They're in an army that intends to capture the fantasy trope of humans, which is being average but versatile.
They're also in a game that is balanced well.

If you want units that stomp all over things then Warhammer has loads. It's actually good fun, the monsters and battles are epic, bit it comes at the cost of some control over who wins the game.


Resurrectionists
Nightstalkers
Dwarfs  
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

KoM are pretty boring, and if you dont want to play giants and beasts of war, then the list is very lacking. While I don´t agree with all the ideas, stuff like making archers, crossbowmen and arquebuisers three very distinct units with different roles would go a long way in making more units playable and interesting.

   
Made in za
Infiltrating Naga





South Africa

 Illumini wrote:
KoM are pretty boring, and if you dont want to play giants and beasts of war, then the list is very lacking. While I don´t agree with all the ideas, stuff like making archers, crossbowmen and arquebuisers three very distinct units with different roles would go a long way in making more units playable and interesting.

"Very lacking" in what? It's not battlefield roles, KoM have something for pretty much all of those. If you want more "interesting" or fantastical things then why are you playing KoM? That's not the army's theme.
How much you like the theme is up to your subjective taste. If you don't like it then play one of the other 20 armies. How much it suits your taste doesn't make anything good or bad, just makes it for others.

I think KoM gives the feel and flavour of generic fantasy humans very well. You have versatility, grit, steel and numbers.


Resurrectionists
Nightstalkers
Dwarfs  
   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

 Illumini wrote:
KoM are pretty boring, and if you dont want to play giants and beasts of war, then the list is very lacking. While I don´t agree with all the ideas, stuff like making archers, crossbowmen and arquebuisers three very distinct units with different roles would go a long way in making more units playable and interesting.


Thanks for the reaction. Fully agree that some of the ideas need ironing out to avoid "rules bloat" but we need to start somewhere to gather ideas.
The mortar thingy does require some thought, as it's now too clunky.

 DarkBlack wrote:


"To the OP: KoM have a wide variety of battlefield roles covered, you really don't need more options. The rest of your post sounds like you're griping about you units not being powerful enough. Why would they be especially powerful?
They're in an army that intends to capture the fantasy trope of humans, which is being average but versatile.
They're also in a game that is balanced well.

If you want units that stomp all over things then Warhammer has loads. It's actually good fun, the monsters and battles are epic, bit it comes at the cost of some control over who wins the game.


In Warhammer I was a huge fan of Empire. Kingdoms of men don;t live up to that expectation, this means that I stopped playing my army as KoM, but instead field them as League or Brotherhood. Same army, basically, but with far more options.
It's not about power (if it were, I'd just play my undead and leave it at it)

This is a pity, since I have a weak spot for the ordinary bloke with an ordinary weapon taking on the big baddies. As for now, KoM infantry is fine, characters are cheap and do well, but the other parts of the army are really lacking.
Fortunately, Clash '19 added the giant, which is a great tool for the army. Also, the buffs to the war beasts and chariots make them useful again. This gives the army some more variety other than basic infantry, cheap characters and mediocre cavalry. (shooters/war machines are not worth their points, not even in casual games). The army is still lacking a bit in damage dealing capacity and useful ranged threats.

I've assessed this in 50+ games, though most in a casual environment. Most success I've had with KoM was with either abyssal or honour guard allies; which compliment the KoM army really well.

You don't seem to agree with my assessment, so please convince me with the following
a) Do you agree with me that parts of the KoM army are not performing their role on the battlefield? Mainly aiming at crossbowmen, arquebussiers and cannon. If do do not agree, in what situation do they perform their roles well?
b) Which tournament has been won by Kingdoms of Men and what was their army list? Brotherhood and League have done well (though not often)
c) You write that the army does not need more options. Please tell me how you, with your KoM army, deal with elite units such as soul reavers or the fallen. I can only rout them by swamping them in units, which requires a mistake by my opponent as they need to allow me to isolate their elite untis.

That said, I fully agree with Illumi that KoM are boring to play, and that's a sad thing. The goal of my posts is to spin some ideas to sove this.
It's not bad to have 8 different kinds of melee infantry, but they have more or less the same role. Having a large roster is not the same as having battlefield options.




My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in za
Infiltrating Naga





South Africa

In Warhammer I was a huge fan of Empire. Kingdoms of men don;t live up to that expectation, this means that I stopped playing my army as KoM, but instead field them as League or Brotherhood. Same army, basically, but with far more options.
It's not about power (if it were, I'd just play my undead and leave it at it)

Kingdoms of Men are not The Empire and Mantic is under no obligation to live up to expectations created by GW.


This is a pity, since I have a weak spot for the ordinary bloke with an ordinary weapon taking on the big baddies. As for now, KoM infantry is fine, characters are cheap and do well, but the other parts of the army are really lacking.
Fortunately, Clash '19 added the giant, which is a great tool for the army. Also, the buffs to the war beasts and chariots make them useful again. This gives the army some more variety other than basic infantry, cheap characters and mediocre cavalry. (shooters/war machines are not worth their points, not even in casual games). The army is still lacking a bit in damage dealing capacity and useful ranged threats.

KoM is exactly "the ordinary bloke with ordinary weapons taking on the big baddies" that is what the list is designed to be. Again, lacking in what exactly? Knights are decent, better than that would not be "the ordinary bloke with an ordinary weapon taking on the big baddies", same goes for your infantry (what did you expect the bulk of a human army to be if not infantry?). The infantry is quite granular with cheap and heavy options of offense, defense and versatile.

You don't seem to agree with my assessment, so please convince me with the following
a) Do you agree with me that parts of the KoM army are not performing their role on the battlefield? Mainly aiming at crossbowmen, arquebussiers and cannon. If do do not agree, in what situation do they perform their roles well?

No. Cannons are (presumably by design) hit or miss and other armies have the same issue. Same goes for Reload! missle troops.Reload! infantry do well when deployed properly and against armoured enemies; you do have to think ahead to get value out of them though. I would not recommend shooting hordes for any army, as easy to disrupt as a smaller unit, but more points..
b) Which tournament has been won by Kingdoms of Men and what was their army list? Brotherhood and League have done well (though not often)

I thought the topic was about diversity (poor choice of word with today's moral dialouge, btw)? You are welcome to look up tournament results if you want to, but I have other things I would rather do.
c) You write that the army does not need more options. Please tell me how you, with your KoM army, deal with elite units such as soul reavers or the fallen. I can only rout them by swamping them in units, which requires a mistake by my opponent as they need to allow me to isolate their elite untis.

Most of KoW is swapping units and KoM have more units to swap than an elite army. Some arqubusiers in front of them would do well, especially if you have units to gang up on them when the elite unit comes to deal with them on your terms because the alternative is being shot at. Or just keep the elite unit busy grinding through cheap units. Threaten to flank the enemy army with your relatively cheap but fast flying monster and shooting cavalry so that the elite unit has to waste it's time not getting flanked.
It's kinda like "the ordinary bloke with ordinary weapons taking on the big baddies" is going to have to bring some tactics and have units work together because each of his units are not just better than "the big baddies". Almost like that's the feel the army is supposed to have.

Also good luck to anything grinding through a heavy pike block, it's going to take most of the game (mounted sons of korgaan had a hard time).

That said, I fully agree with Illumi that KoM are boring to play, and that's a sad thing. The goal of my posts is to spin some ideas to sove this.

I disagree that it's a problem in need of solving. it's your subjective opinion.
It's not bad to have 8 different kinds of melee infantry, but they have more or less the same role. Having a large roster is not the same as having battlefield options.

If you think that pikes, spears, shieldwall, footguard, polearms, beserkers and militia mobs all have the same role on the battlefield then I don't I don't think you understand the concept. Those have at least three different roles (i would say four) that each have options for quality.


Resurrectionists
Nightstalkers
Dwarfs  
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling






I thought the topic was about diversity (poor choice of word with today's moral dialouge, btw)?


I daresay it's a catchy title and left room for some initial fun, so therefore not a bad choice IMHO

(just to lighten up the tone a bit)
   
Made in nl
Crazed Flagellant




Netherlands

 DarkBlack wrote:

(....)
Some arqubusiers in front of them would do well, (....)


Just the above post shows me that you have not played (much) with an army that I gave ample opportunity in the past few years and found a) of limited fun and b) limited effectivity. (no serious player ever fields arquebussiers or expects them to "do well")

Most of my reaction to your post would boil down to "I disagree with what you say", so I'll leave it at that.

This may of course be a personal opinion, but the underlying tone is to create a better game. I'll leave it to those who make the decisions (mantic RC) to make the right decisions. They usually do.
In the meantime, I'll gladly use my models as League or Brotherhood.


To finalise, yes, you are right about that KoM infantry have more than one battlefield role. KoM infantry do have two distinct roles: Chaff and Anvils. They try to have damage dealers (berserkers, 2-handed foot guard, polearms) but these pale compared to other damage dealers in the game of comparable cost.

My blog on Kings of War:

http://kingsofwarvince.business.blog 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska

Pic of a KoM Arquebusier (WHFB Empire, 6th ed.) vs a Trident Realm Naiad Lurker from the most recent Vanguard demo. A bit off topic but I wanted to spruce up the thread with a pic. The Arquebusier lost the melee but his long range weapon did deter movement on the right flank for a couple of turns. The shooter was able to get into range and shoot in the same turn due to the Leader having an ability that grants a free Walk move to nearby friendlies.
I'm glad that I'm able to use minis that I painted in this new game, the Arquebusiers weren't very impactful when I used them in KoW.
I'm curious to see what impact Vanguard will have on KoW rules and gameplay.
[Thumb - IMG_1461.JPG]


May the dice be with you!  
   
 
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