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Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

I am going to play a first Vanguard game tonight. After reading the rules there are quite a few things not completely clear to me but hope to clarify it with my opponent. I would still like to ask here about two points before we play:
- How does it work with the faction specific spells. Do all spellcasters from the faction know the spells automatically even if the spells are not listed in the casters profiles.
- In KoW the player that wins the roll to choose a side starts deploying along one of the longer sides of the battelfield. In Vanguard the battelfield is a square and I do not see it written anywhere that player must choose a side out of two possible ones, not four. Are really all four sides eligible to start deploying with the opponent deploying just opposite to the side chosen by the first player.

I guess we will have more questions after the game ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 10:14:01


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





1.You can Exchange 1(!) of your listed spells for a faction specific one or pay 10 Points per extraspell. (same goes for spells of the advanced spellbooks)

2. I dont really know and I don t have the book in at hand. We build the scenery first with 2 tablesides in mind or whatever the scenario calls for( there are cornerdeployments possible in some scenarios)
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User






I read it as any of the 4 sides, if you set up terrain fairly it probably doesn't matter beyond the practicalities of the space you play.
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

Thanks for the replies. I also read it that any of the four sides can be chosen to start deployment as far as the scenario does not specify it otherwise. However, I doubt it is the RAI interpretation.
Two more question after playing a game:
- can a walk move be used to engage the enemy
- when a model starts its action as knocked down it can stand up and melee with a model it is engaged with, correct?
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Yes, you can engage with a walk or run. But you only get the free attack if your run meets the charge criteria


It takes a short action to stand up and if you're engaged when you stand up, you can attack.
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

 Thatguyoverthere wrote:
Yes, you can engage with a walk or run. But you only get the free attack if your run meets the charge criteria

Thanks. Do I undestand you correctly that charge is possible only with the Run action. In our game we have interpreted the rules that one can engage and attack even with a Walk action provided the two additional conditions for Charge are met.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Yes, if you engage somebody via a walk action you would have to use the models second short action (or a fatigue action if the walk already was the second short action) for a melee attack, which would not get the charge bonus.

But I do not think that the target needs to be out of walking range to be charged, the point is that you spend a long action on a run (can also be a disengage!) to engage another model and meet the other charge criteria to get the free melee and the charge bonus.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 10:15:35


 
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

H0neyBe4r wrote:
Yes, if you engage somebody via a walk action you would have to use the models second short action (or a fatigue action if the walk already was the second short action) for a melee attack, which would not get the charge bonus.

OK, I can see it now, thanks for the clarification.


But I do not think that the target needs to be out of walking range to be charged, the point is that you spend a long action on a run (can also be a disengage!) to engage another model and meet the other charge criteria to get the free melee and the charge bonus.

This is clear. The point (as I see it now) is that Charge is a long action then which is nowhere clearly stated in the rules. The rules speak about a Charge action within the Run action description but it is not quite obvious that Walk (a short action) cannot be used to get the free attack (provided by Charge) as the free attack part says "if the move qualifies as a Charge" which I interpret that the move meets the 2 additional criteria, not necessarily be a Run action as Walk allows to engage too. I have found it quite confusing that Charge is not specified as a separate action different from Walk and Run with a clear description "Charge (long)".

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/10 11:22:28


 
   
Made in za
Infiltrating Naga





South Africa

Al Quds wrote:

- when a model starts its action as knocked down it can stand up and melee with a model it is engaged with, correct?


Yes, but that is not usually the case because "Down but not out" causes fatigue in addition to getting knocked down.


Resurrectionists
Nightstalkers
Dwarfs  
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User





Actually there are quite a few instances when you can attack after standing up (read not beeing also fatiqued)
"Smash", "Pound" and the "Hammer"-spell knock you down without fatiqueing you. Plus you can spend a power to get rid of the fatique at the end of the round.


but it's a really nice pointer to "Down but not out" also fatigueing you. We played that wrong for quite some time, in our first games...
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

I have one more question to pose:
What does it exactly mean that a model that killed an enemy may make a free follow-up move of 3” into its front arc. Eg. is a pivot on the spot OK. I thought so but if one pivots the model by let's say 45°, then it will not be completely in the fromt arc, i.e within the front arc of the model defined prior to making the follow-up move. Thus, the question is does the whole model has to stay in this front arc or is it sufficient if just the center of the model is located there. Of course, one can move the model slightly to the front and then pivot it to stay fully within the front arc. Do I also understand the rule correctly that it is not just walking straight ahead by max 3" but one can make as many pivots as one wishes during the follow-up move as far as the model stays within the front arc.
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





Check the picture.

the furthermost point of the base after movement must of course be within the 3"
[Thumb - ilustrate.png]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/14 13:50:03


 
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

 Schmendrick wrote:
Check the picture. the furthermost point of the base after movement must of course be within the 3"

Hmm, are you sure that pivots are not allowed. I do not see it written anywhere in the follow-up move rules. There, it is just written that normal move rules are to be followed and those do include pivots. Do also note that with a cavalry model you may still go in a slightly backward direction to stay within the front arc when one draws a picture similar to the one you made.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/01/14 15:29:08


 
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





Al Quds wrote:

Hmm, are you sure, pivots are not allowed. I do not see it written anywhere in the follow-up move rules. There, it is just written that normal move rules are to be followed and those do include pivots. Do also note that with a cavalry model you may still go in a slightly backward direction to stay within the front arc when one draws a picture similar to the one you made.


then i will be sure to give this a thorough reading today in the night!
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





after checking the writing, I think do not really get what you mean:

The follow up move is like a normal move (which INCLUDES pivot), but only max. 3" and not into the rear arc. and the pivot is included in the painting i made?
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

First of all a normal move includes as many pivots (which are quite confusingly called "turns" without specifying how to perform them, I guess the KoW pivot is ment, though some may argue that a model can be turned along a front corner too) as one wishes which is not clear from your picture. Thus, one can move to stay within 3" not necessarily along a straight line and turn/pivot as one likes. One can go even slightly backwards provided the follow-up move is performed by a cavalry model.

Secondly, turning/pivoting a square model on the spot is not allowed as far as the angle is not a multiple of 90°.

I just wanted my interpreteation confirmed. Your picture is fine but does not show that the final facing of the model may be any one wishes and the folow-up moves can go any path long up to 3", not only a straight one (as your picture suggests).
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





All right, I think I mainly got you.
I interpret it as: as many pivots as you like, pivot point on every model is the center, and move in a not-necessarily-straith-line but the line has a max. length of 3".

To the thing with "cavalry backwards" i cannot say anything
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Do forced fatigue actions count as activations for things like brace wearing off or regenerate triggering? I wasn't able to suss it out from the rule book.
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

 Thatguyoverthere wrote:
Do forced fatigue actions count as activations for things like brace wearing off or regenerate triggering? I wasn't able to suss it out from the rule book.

The improved armor due to Brace works only up to next model activation. As forced fatigue action is another activation of the model, the model will not remain braced. Regeneration is used only at the first activation of the model in a given round, so it is not possible to regenerate twice during one round.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I myself got two more questions after playing another game.
- How exactly Pound rule works. Assume the attacker rolls 3 successful hits, one of them is saved when the opponent rolls for armor. Is the attacked model still knocked down (provided it was not killed or Down but not out).
- Quite similar question about the Trident weapon used by Naiads. The naiad attacks with the weapon and scores several hits but all of them are saved. Is the attacked model still fatigued despite not taking a wound from the trident.

Basically, both questions are about what counts as a successful hit for the purpose of these two rules. Is it the one rolled successfully by the attacker or only the one that caused a wound (was not saved). We played it the first way but are not quite sure if we interpreted the rules correctly.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/01/20 10:54:01


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I have a question. How do i convert power dice to us d6. want to play but cant find the dice and i have d6.

Working on Imperial guard Kill Team. And a Nightlords 40k army. 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




@That guy over there
I would ask in the Vanguard Fanatics group on Facebook, as the game's designer, Matt Gillbert, answers such questions there occasionally. I am pretty sure he mentioned that a force fatigue action does not trigger regenerate. Not sure about brace, he did say that a retaliation does not void brace, so maybe a force fatigue, which technically is not an activation, doesn´t either.

@Al Quads
You played it right, a hit doesn´t have to wound in order to count as a hit. Magic spells that do not wound, like "heal" for example, need successful hits too, in order to work.

@Stonelessword
This is the best I could find:

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/4363619/milarky

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/20 20:52:41


 
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

@H0neyBe4r
Thanks for answering the questions. Unfortunately, some people like myself are not on FB, so not everybody has an access to the answers provided there.

@Stonelessword
I made a simple conversion table for the special power dice:
d6 ----- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
red ---- 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2
white - 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2
blue --- 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/20 21:40:03


 
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





Al Quds wrote:
 Thatguyoverthere wrote:
Do forced fatigue actions count as activations for things like brace wearing off or regenerate triggering? I wasn't able to suss it out from the rule book.

The improved armor due to Brace works only up to next model activation. As forced fatigue action is another activation of the model, the model will not remain braced. Regeneration is used only at the first activation of the model in a given round, so it is not possible to regenerate twice during one round.


I am with H0neyBe4r on this one. I do not read anywhere in the books that a forced fatigue action is another activation. its exactly what it says: an ACTION. it does not count as activation, i do not find any mention that it is in the book. therefore the brace stays when you force fatigue the model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/21 09:01:10


 
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

 Schmendrick wrote:

I am with H0neyBe4r on this one. I do not read anywhere in the books that a forced fatigue action is another activation. its exactly what it says: an ACTION. it does not count as activation, i do not find any mention that it is in the book. therefore the brace stays when you force fatigue the model.

It could be as you say. Though, it is not quite clear to me how the turns sequence works then. In each round the players alternate taking turns. When exactly are the forced fatigue actions played.

Example 1:
- player A turn, activated model A1
- player B turn, activated model B1
- player A turn - can model A1 be force fatigued now or should the player A active all his models first before starting force activate his/her models?
We played it that the A1 model can be forced fatigued now, so in effect it is equivalent to making one more short activation with the A1 model.

Example 2:
- player A activates his last model (all his/her models have activation tokens)
- player B turn, model activated, still more models without activation token
- player A turn - forced fatigue action can be given but may the player wait and give it after several turns of player B (player A may wait to force fatigue a model depending on what player B does witl all his/her models)
So far our intrepretation was that the player "spends" a turn to give forced fatigue action, but may "pass" any turn he/she wishes after all his/her models were activated. If both player "pass" we go to the end of the round.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Example 1 is correct, you can force fatigue an activated model instead of activating a "fresh" one during a turn, but the free rules say that you cannot pass turns (page 10), and Gillbert wrote something to that effect too if I remember correctly. If it´s your turn and all your models have been activated already you either have to force fatigue one or declare you are finished with the round.

But on page 15 where force fatigue actions are explained it says that "For the purposes of any rules or abilities, it is still considered an activation of the model."[i]. However, the regeneration rules states that it´s only triggered through a models first activation in a round (page 28). Seems I was only half right, force fatigue does not trigger regeneration, but does count as a second activation. Which means that it voids brace. The only action not voiding brace would be a retaliation, because it does not count as an action.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/21 15:59:23


 
   
Made in at
Snotty Snotling





H0neyBe4r wrote:

But on page 15 where force fatigue actions are explained it says that "For the purposes of any rules or abilities, it is still considered an activation of the model."[i].


hm! missed that one indeed!
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

We played VG after a long time again and got another rules question:
One model had the Large Shield item enabling it to make the Brace action as a short action. The rules state that an engaged model can only make Melee or Break Away action. Does it really mean that the Large Shield is completely useless in combat (when Engaged). We interpreted it this way but find it strange ...

And another question related to using the Forces of Nature warband. I have noted on Mantic blog that some rules of this faction are updated, in particlular the Ambush rule. Some new unit cards were also added. Is it going to be reflected in a FAQ. If so, when? In a week or two we are going to start a campaign that will be running for some time. Thus, I would like to prepare my warband anticipating any new rules (and units) for the FoN faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 09:09:15


 
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

I guess we got the answer to my brace question right (the model cannot use brace when engaged).
We played another game and the questions are still comming (wish the rules were written more clearly):

1) How exactly the spell Lightning Bolt works in its boosted version. We formed two opinions:
- the target is hit by 3d8, Marksman, Piercing(1) ranged attack, the other models in the area by 2d8 (no Marksman nor Piercing)
- everybody in the area (including target) is hit by 2d8, Marksman, Piercing(1) attack
What is the correct answer.

2) My already engaged model spends its action on Melee attack. The opponent is done for the turn, no actions left. Can I immediately give the same model a forced fatigue action to get another Melee attack. My opponent thought that I coud not do it immediately, that I should activate another model first, then return to the first one to give it the forced fatigue action.

3) The Salamander Veteran has a special ability, a ranged attack with 2d8, but the model has no Range value specified. What makes a successful hit. Clearly, this is not a question, rather an omission on the designers' part and it obviously requires a correction/FAQ, so if anyone is in touch with people at Mantic or with someone in the Vanguard rules committee, please inform them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/04 14:52:33


 
   
Made in de
Primus





Rhein Main Gebiet

1) I think the target is hit with 3D8, piercing and Marksman. Then all models within the area (including the target) take a 2D8 hit.

2) I Force Fatigue to attack a second time to kill off a knocked down model all the time. So I hope it is legal.

3)?

"What do you want?"
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Morden and Vir, In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum 
   
Made in cz
Scarab with a Cracked Shell



Prague, Czechia

StygianBeach, thanks for your response! Actually, when thinking about it again I am inclined to agree with your interpretation of the LB spell (all models including the target affected by the area effect). This makes the boosted version even more powerful than I thought.
   
 
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