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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






Oi,

1. "When you pick a model to move, if that model started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy model, it cannot make a normal move. Instead, it can either remain stationary or Fall Back" So if you remain stationary if your opponent decided to fall back does that mean you are readied up? "When you pick a model to move, instead of making a normal move (including pivoting the model) you can Ready them, unless they are within 1" of an enemy model." Since they fell back you are no longer within 1" of that enemy.

2. Obscured

"Other models (even friendly models) and terrain may hide a target from view. If the target of an attack is even partially obscured from the best point of view of the firing model (that is, the point of view from a part of the firing model that gives the clearest line of sight), then it is said to be obscured.

When checking to see if a target is obscured, consider the main body of the firing and target models – do not include a model’s base or parts that are ‘sticking out’ like aerials or weapons, but do include all limbs and a model’s head. If there is still doubt, we recommend the players agree about what constitutes the main body of a model before the battle begins."

Say for example you had 2 units that were holding their arm straight out infront of them and you criss-crossed the 2 arms infront of each other's torso. Will consider both the models obsured based on the rules???

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/11 22:14:44


WaAaGH! 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler







1: It is my understanding that the model that the enemy fell back from still gets participate in the shooting phase, but they don't count as Readied.

I have had this happen a couple of times in game, but so far, it wasn't an issue since there weren't targets that Readied would have made a difference so I never really concerned myself with it.

2. I would say that yes there is an advantage to modeling your units in such as way as to create a smaller silhouette. If you have a model in a jumping jack pose they are going to be a bigger target than a model crouched with their arms tucked in.

I would try not to worry about it since I believe most players just model their miniatures in a way that looks cool and not to game a slight advantage. Typically, the terrain on the boards I play on have enough cover/LoS blockers that if your opponent doesn't move you could easily keep your team well enough hidden no matter how they are modeled. Or while they have cover everywhere, there is almost no way no matter how you model your miniature to hide it completely out of view.

2400pts Black Legion Background
1200 pts Fallen Dark Angels Background
Admech Kill Team Background Necron Kill Team Background Grey Knights Kill Team Background Dark Eldar Kill Team Background 
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







You can't ready the model because you ready something instead of a normal move, and you cannot make a normal move in this situation.


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





1. You are given two options: "remain stationary" or "fall back." Neither of those options is to Ready the model.

2. The Obscured rule is pretty unambiguous and applies if the target "is even partially obscured," including by other models. That bit was even quoted in the OP. I don't understand the basis for the question.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






Greywing wrote:
1. You are given two options: "remain stationary" or "fall back." Neither of those options is to Ready the model.

2. The Obscured rule is pretty unambiguous and applies if the target "is even partially obscured," including by other models. That bit was even quoted in the OP. I don't understand the basis for the question.


Hi Greywing,

I have a few models with one arm straight out holding a big gun. If 2 of those models are side by side they can overlap each other with their arm and guns so that they both receive Obscurity, my question is.... Is this allowed?


WaAaGH! 
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







If the arms obscure each other then yes. The text is extremely clear. The downside to the approach is that the 2 models can be easily multicharged and there are plenty of options out there go ignore obscuration and spread hits between the 2 models.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






 Flinty wrote:
If the arms obscure each other then yes. The text is extremely clear. The downside to the approach is that the 2 models can be easily multicharged and there are plenty of options out there go ignore obscuration and spread hits between the 2 models.


cool cool, One more question about obscurity. If my unit was holding a Banner which is fairly tall. I can use the top of the banner as the firing model to check for obscurity correct? (which would give me a huge advantage). Below is a FAQ:


"Q: If my model is obscured from an enemy model (even a
little), does that mean that the enemy model is obscured from
my model?
A: Not necessarily. You check visibility from any part of
your model, so if your model’s head is sticking out from
behind a wall (for example) you can check visibility
from that part of the model to every part of your
target model."

WaAaGH! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





defleshed2 wrote:
Greywing wrote:
1. You are given two options: "remain stationary" or "fall back." Neither of those options is to Ready the model.

2. The Obscured rule is pretty unambiguous and applies if the target "is even partially obscured," including by other models. That bit was even quoted in the OP. I don't understand the basis for the question.


Hi Greywing,

I have a few models with one arm straight out holding a big gun. If 2 of those models are side by side they can overlap each other with their arm and guns so that they both receive Obscurity, my question is.... Is this allowed?


From the same direction? How is that physically possible?

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




Berlin

defleshed2 wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
If the arms obscure each other then yes. The text is extremely clear. The downside to the approach is that the 2 models can be easily multicharged and there are plenty of options out there go ignore obscuration and spread hits between the 2 models.


cool cool, One more question about obscurity. If my unit was holding a Banner which is fairly tall. I can use the top of the banner as the firing model to check for obscurity correct? (which would give me a huge advantage). Below is a FAQ:


Snip


No you cannot. The rules are clear about that.
I wonder if you do have a rule book.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






brumbaer wrote:
defleshed2 wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
If the arms obscure each other then yes. The text is extremely clear. The downside to the approach is that the 2 models can be easily multicharged and there are plenty of options out there go ignore obscuration and spread hits between the 2 models.


cool cool, One more question about obscurity. If my unit was holding a Banner which is fairly tall. I can use the top of the banner as the firing model to check for obscurity correct? (which would give me a huge advantage). Below is a FAQ:


Snip


No you cannot. The rules are clear about that.
I wonder if you do have a rule book.


Yes I do have the rule book, thats why I posted the text...

Obscured

"Other models (even friendly models) and terrain may hide a target from view. If the target of an attack is even partially obscured from the best point of view of the firing model (that is, the point of view from a part of the firing model that gives the clearest line of sight), then it is said to be obscured.

When checking to see if a target is obscured, consider the main body of the firing and target models – do not include a model’s base or parts that are ‘sticking out’ like aerials or weapons, but do include all limbs and a model’s head. If there is still doubt, we recommend the players agree about what constitutes the main body of a model before the battle begins"


"from the best point of view of the firing model (that is, the point of view from a part of the firing model that gives the clearest line of sight) "

"You check visibility from any part of
your model
, so if your model’s head is sticking out from
behind a wall (for example) you can check visibility
from that part of the model to every part of your
target model."

a banner is still part of the model... and it reads from any part of your model.


WaAaGH! 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Admiral





Glasgow

You are correct - line of sight is drawn from any part of the shooting model to any part of the target model.

The more restrictive list of model parts applies to the parts of the target model that need to be blocked to claim obscuration.
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




Berlin

Thank you, I stand corrected.

I can see now how you come to this decision.






   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







"When checking to see if a target is obscured, consider the main body of the firing and target models – do not include a model’s base or parts that are ‘sticking out’ like aerials or weapons, but do include all limbs and a model’s head."

From the text quoted above, it states to consider the main body of the firing model. So following that part of the rule you cant draw line if sight from a banner.

Never mind. Distinction between visibility and obscuration noted.

But it would also work the other way around as well, so no advantage gained.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/15 00:14:11


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User






 Flinty wrote:


But it would also work the other way around as well, so no advantage gained.


What do you mean by this?

WaAaGH! 
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







You can draw line of sight from the banner to the target unit, but equally you can draw line of sight from the target unit back to the banner. If the banner is the only thing that can be seen then the model will get the obscuration to hit penalty, but it is visible under the rules posted above. So you can't hide your model, using the banner as a periscope that permits you to shoot at someone but they can't shoot back.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Imperial Admiral





Glasgow

Exactly - obscuration isn't two-way (you can be obscured while your opponent isn't or vice versa) but always visibility works both ways (if you can see them then they can see you).
   
 
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