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I just bought a box of howling banshees and have a question- I presume that the large 2 handed weapon is the executioner. Where is the pistol for a model that uses the executioner? There is no pistol on the body of the model and there is no pistol on the exarch sprue or the normal warrior sprue. So how do I WYSIWYG an exarch with an executioner and pistol?

As a pistol is standard wargear that isn't removed, you don't HAVE to have it modeled to still be WYSIWYG. It's the same thing with Tactical Marines. All Marines come with Bolt Pistols, but they kits never come with enough for each model to have them, nor should they because it would make the unit look far too busy

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Well actually, yeah you do need to model it to be WYSIWYG. Kinda the point. To be on topic, I don't know. Can you get a generic holstered pistol from anything in the range and add it?

Reemule wrote:
Well actually, yeah you do need to model it to be WYSIWYG. Kinda the point. To be on topic, I don't know. Can you get a generic holstered pistol from anything in the range and add it?

Agreed, except when the vast majority of a community agrees that standard wargear not always being shown is OK.
In my experience, 99.999% of players have 0 issues with Tac Marines not being modeled with Bolt Pistols. And really, I should say 100% of the time, but I'm flexible enough to allow for 0.01% of TFG having an issue with it.
I have NEVER seen a Marine player denied into a Tourney because they didn't have pistols modeled, yet I have also NEVER a Marine army with pistols on every model
So 100% of the Marine armies I have personally seen are not technically WYSIWYG, and everyone is ok with that.

In fact, GW is clearly ok with it since many of their kits, including the Banshee in this situation do NOT have the required bits. The only way to give the Banshee Exarch with Executioner a pistol is to give her an third arm or convert a holster.

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99.999% of people won't give you any static over it. Generic pistols and grenades are generally overlooked when it comes to WYSIWYG. (Most people tend to take WYSIWYG to primarily apply to upgrades, in my experience)

That being said, I have run into a player in a tournament who tried to argue that my Tac marines didn't have grenades or bolt pistols modeled and therefore could not use them. The TOs agreed that he was incorrect, but it is a possibility.

If you want to cover every possible crazy outcome, then there are pistol bits available in the eldar range. Kabalite warriors have holstered pistol bits that look decent. There's also one that comes in the DE Raider kit, I think. (Just ask any DE player, we all have tons of them in our bitz boxes going spare, I promise you...) In any event, they're all fanciful and totally fit a regular Eldar look.

The Guardian sprue may have a holstered pistol bit? Maybe the Dire Avenger kit? I'm not aware of any others in the CWE range.

There aren't a lot of Shuriken Pistols. You'll probably have to kitbash one.

There is an arm-mounted pistol-equivelent in the Dire Avenger kit. It'd take some work to move to the Harlie arm, though.

IIRC in older editions grenades did not need to be modeled on a figure and were assumed to be in pockets or other out of view locations. Pistols did need to be added to a figure if they were armed with them and were not on the model originally.

As far as I can tell there is no WYSIWYG rule in 8th it's merely a convention held over from older editions and a courtesy to your opponent.

Reemule wrote:
Well actually, yeah you do need to model it to be WYSIWYG. Kinda the point. To be on topic, I don't know. Can you get a generic holstered pistol from anything in the range and add it?

You’re that fun guy at parties that is playing beer pong and yells at anything someone does that is against the official rules of the game aren’t you? My gosh man.. chill

As a pistol is standard wargear that isn't removed, you don't HAVE to have it modeled to still be WYSIWYG

This.
However, if you want one, there is one(unholstered) in the Dire Avenger kit. I'm sure there are others among the range, but they are quite rare.

Off the top of my head:

-Storm Guardian upgrade kit (but they look like gak)
-Dire Avenger kit (1 unholstered, 1 attached to an arm)
-Farseers/Warlocks - some (1 in-hand)
-Harlequin kit (5, but a ton of *really awesome* kitbash bits)

I'm sure there are some others, but the CWE line of infantry seems to, as a whole, have fewer bits/options than even just the Tac Marine kit. Only HQs and DA Exarchs have plastic pistols, and Storm Guardian upgrade kit and some Aspects have Finecast pistols.

Considering WYSIWYG isn't a rule and hasn't been for several editions, don't worry about it.

If it REALLY bothers you, find someone willing to sell you a spare pistol for a few pennies and glue it to the base.

While I'm on the "don't worry about it" train for minor wargear like this, you're probably better off kitbashing a holsterd pistol, as there's no good way to kitbash a Shuriken Pistol into a holster, and the Banshee exarch has both hands on the Executioner.

That said, almost any pistol would be appropriate. It doesn't actually need to be a Shuriken pistol - as Shuriken is the only pistol type it could be.

Grab the arm mounted one from the dire avenger exarch and glue it to the banshee's forearm.

Done, no holster needed

You know, I really like that idea. Why should avengers be the only unit with wrist mounted catapults?

Oh yeah, that is a great option. The scorpion Exarch also has an arm-mounted catapult in the Claw.
So having a Banshee with an arm-mounted pistol wouldn't be outside the realm of probability

Does the Banshee sprue have and extra pistol? Possibly the one that the Exarch would have without the Executioner?
If so, you could just cut that off the hand holding it and glue it to the wrist of one of the Executioner arms. Done

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Nope. The banshee sprue for the exarch just has 2 mirror swords and the executioner. The normal weapon sprue has 6 swords (with arms). The box set does not include any pistols. They're part of all of the figures except the Exarch.

Yeah the Banshee sprues suck. You'll have to find a suitable replacement. Personally, I think the wrist mount sounds great.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Considering WYSIWYG isn't a rule and hasn't been for several editions, don't worry about it.

If it REALLY bothers you, find someone willing to sell you a spare pistol for a few pennies and glue it to the base.

It could be for a tournament, and there is soft and hard WYSIWYG. Usually only the primary weapons need to be there. Secondary weapons, like grenades and pistols, are ignored, because its nearly impossible to have all your models with all their wargear. Some isnt even available on the sprue(s).

1. This isn't a conversion or counts-as; this is the *official model*. Assembled the official way. This is the only representation of the Executioner that GW provides. And the only rules for a model with the Executioner include a Pistol.

2. The Banshees each have a pair of pouches. I don't recall if they're absent on the Exarch, though. It's not clear that there *isn't* a pistol in one of said pouches.

3. I love the idea of "glue it to the base", but generally consider bits on the base as not equipped. For instance, the Banshee Exarch model has a Space Marine helment on it's base, but it's rules don't include Power Armor!

I'm still on the 'It's fine' bandwagon (although half the time I still look it up in-game or assume my Banshee Exarch doesn't have a pistol). But if you really want to model it, either the wrist-mounted option or find a different holstered pistol and turn it into a Shuriken Pistol.

You should be able to kitbash a regular Shuriken Pistol by taking a Shuriken Catapault, cutting off the barrel right after the grip, then cut off the end of the barrel and glue it back on. But where on the model would you put a Shuriken Pistol?

One other option: equip the Executioner in one hand (you could trim off the second hand on it, but that'd take careful work) or use another polearm (Dire Avengers and Succubi have appropriate polearms for this), so that you can use another arm for the pistol (both kits should have pistol-toting or can-be-pistol-toting arms). I think this would work well and look great.

All the FineCast Aspect sprues suck. I love the DA kit, and wish they made plastic kits for all the Aspects. Although, if they did, there's no guarentee they wouldn't go the Guardian route (and have basically 0 options).

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Reemule wrote:
Well actually, yeah you do need to model it to be WYSIWYG. Kinda the point. To be on topic, I don't know. Can you get a generic holstered pistol from anything in the range and add it?

You’re that fun guy at parties that is playing beer pong and yells at anything someone does that is against the official rules of the game aren’t you? My gosh man.. chill

No dude. You chill.

I play this game to have fun and to have an enjoyable time for me And my opponent. To do that I want to be as clear as possible and avoid discrepancies and arguments. I want my opponent to have all the information possible so they can make good decisions and win games with proper play, not from me getting lucky off them mis-identifying my models.

So from your post you seem to be fine with winning games cause your opponent didn't have the full information they should have had. How is that working out for you?

Curious, Reemule; would it actually bother you if you faced a mostly-WYSIWYG army, where the only variances were minor wargear? Even if the kit were bog-standard "official models" assembled the "official way"?

Not dinging your preference. Just curious about where/if you draw the line.

Its not a line.

The enemy of a good time in games is arguing,fighting and hurt feelings. These comes from unclear expectations, and misunderstandings.

Does anyone disagree?

With that in mind I play my game with the intent that my opponent has the most clearest information of my force as possible. So I play WYSIWYG, and I provide them with a full print out of my army for the game, and I try to be very clear in what I'm saying and if I'm doing so that doesn't happen.

GW's ruleset isn't that good. It already gives plenty of places for problems to occur. Why would I add to that burden by being lazy in places where I could do better?

While I agree in general with WYSIWYG, some stuff doesn't need to be modeled on every single model. Everyone knows that a space marine has a boltgun and bolt pistol and grenades. That hasn't changed for over 4+ editions. I'm not saying you need to memorize every units default gear but to expect that level of detail is kinda silly.

"The enemy of a good time in games is arguing,fighting and hurt feelings. These comes from unclear expectations, and misunderstandings. "
Very well said.

"Why would I add to that burden by being lazy in places where I could do better?"
Agree. But, in this case, which is better? A good looking model without the pistol or a passable conversion (I'm not confident a conversion I'd do here would be better) with one? The latter does take more work, and is more technically accurate, but is it really "better" if it looks worse?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Nope. The banshee sprue for the exarch just has 2 mirror swords and the executioner. The normal weapon sprue has 6 swords (with arms). The box set does not include any pistols. They're part of all of the figures except the Exarch.

Now I want to see a Banshee with six arms, each with a sword. It somehow seems appropriate with their quasi-Indian background.

 Stormonu wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Nope. The banshee sprue for the exarch just has 2 mirror swords and the executioner. The normal weapon sprue has 6 swords (with arms). The box set does not include any pistols. They're part of all of the figures except the Exarch.

Now I want to see a Banshee with six arms, each with a sword. It somehow seems appropriate with their quasi-Indian background.[/quote

So Fulgrim lol

 Stormonu wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Nope. The banshee sprue for the exarch just has 2 mirror swords and the executioner. The normal weapon sprue has 6 swords (with arms). The box set does not include any pistols. They're part of all of the figures except the Exarch.

Now I want to see a Banshee with six arms, each with a sword. It somehow seems appropriate with their quasi-Indian background.

But then you'd only get to build the exarch and 1 normal banshee + Kali (the sixth arm would be holding a shuriken pistol) per box. What would you do with the 3 extra bodies?

Bharring wrote:
"The enemy of a good time in games is arguing,fighting and hurt feelings. These comes from unclear expectations, and misunderstandings. "
Very well said.

Agreed, very well said Reemule

Bharring wrote:
"Why would I add to that burden by being lazy in places where I could do better?"
Agree. But, in this case, which is better? A good looking model without the pistol or a passable conversion (I'm not confident a conversion I'd do here would be better) with one? The latter does take more work, and is more technically accurate, but is it really "better" if it looks worse?

And to add to that, the "official" GW model does not include the necessary wargear to be WYSIWYG. While effort should always be taken to make models that clearly represent what they are, I don't think it's fair to require players, especially those that might not be good at conversions or have access to the bits to make them, to put in that extra effort to represent something that GW does not include in the basic kit for a unit.

And I say this as someone who has successfully (to toot my own horn) converted TONS of models and am VERY confident in my conversion skills. But not everyone can do this.
So I see no reason to be so rigid for the WYSIWYG in this case since A) the model does not come with the appropriate parts and B) the wargear in question is a standard, non-optional piece

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Go full predator... shoulder mount the thing

I'm not sure if a single pistol will make much difference in the grand scheme of things. It's not like you are hiding some Rapid fire 3, S8, -3AP, 3dmg gun that you'll whip out out of nowhere and kill a character with.
You'll be like, "Oh yeah, she has a shuriken pistol. Ah yep, it didn't wound."