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So, I am considering making an Adeptus Astartes Kill Team using Space Wolves as they've been an army I've thought about collecting but just couldn't ever pull the trigger. Granted, I know that there is little difference between Space Marine Kill Teams, but I'm looking at Space Wolves as an army not just a Kill Team. Seems that Space Marine chapters that have their own codex have a bit of an advantage over just Codex Space Marines based Space Marines (Grey Knights possibly being the big exception in this edition). So, where to Space Wolves fit into the current meta... both competitive and friendly?

Thanks

SG

EDIT: If I do start collecting Space Wolves, I would like to give them a grizzled viking look versus their current bright blue/grey wolven look. Can anyone help me with some good color schemes for a Viking looking Space Wolves army? Thanks again

We are at the bottom just above grey knights.

8th is not designed well for elite melee armies we get shot up too much before we finally get to charge anything, non of our stuff helps to get charges off reliably, one re-roll from wulfen isn't good enough.

Your options are razorback parking lot or you spam long fangs, wulfen and wolfguard bikers each with storm sheild and storm bolter.

Neither is an army that feels like space wolves though.

If you want to play wolves properly you need a 30 k group.

hobojebus wrote:
Your options are razorback parking lot or you spam long fangs, wulfen and wolfguard bikers each with storm sheild and storm bolter.

Granted, I know next to nothing about Space Wolves lore, but isn't that the way that way that World Eaters work? Essentially spamming Rhinos full of Khorne Berzerkers? Granted, Khorne Berzerkers do hit HARD, but it's the same concept. As I understand it, World Eaters don't use many other units (like Havocs or Bikers), but they run the same way. I do also know that Chaos Space Marines are probably dang near the bottom of the list as well right now, so I'm not sure it'd be a huge upgrade. But, it does make sense to spam transports full of melee fighters... though again, I know nothing about Space Wolves.

SG

Well, the best SW army is the one played as deathwatch with SS and stormbolter.

May add some long fangs for AT, or wulfens if you have models. Everything else is a trash tier.

When the SW codex came out, I commented on the Adepticon GW stream that I was disappointed and thought it was weak.

Geoff and Frankie (their commentators) ridiculed me for not liking the book. I learned from that moment that any of the guys that are working closely with GW now simply cannot say anything negative about GW products and therefore have no credibility.

Anyway, based on ITC results, SW are the 2nd worst army in the game, by win %.

https://www.40kstats.com/

I remember they release hard nerf when the book still was in preorder... This is the single precedent in my memory.

Anything space wolves do in melee, blood angels do it better, and blood angels suck.

Blood angels have better named characters, too.

The thing space wolves can do that no one else can do is the heroic intervention at 6". So if you want to stuff your list with characters and rock a super heavy from FW that hopefully no one can deal with, that's the game.

I think someone did this to modest effect at LVO, but again, it's obviously matchup dependent, and you have to pray you don't see a single Castellan.

Of the SW unique units, only the Wulfen are remotely close to viable, because they are fast, and can fight even if they die.

Just to give you an idea of how overcosted space wolves are, a single Thunderwolf Cavalry rider is priced at 40 points base, and still pays 10 points for a stormshield.

For color scheme look at the 30k colors. I based mine off those and loved how they turned out.

For play I find it rough. As others said this edition can be rough for marines and melee and our guys are no exception. We have a few great units and mediocre rest.

mightymconeshot wrote:
For color scheme look at the 30k colors. I based mine off those and loved how they turned out.

I actually am looking at Horus Heresy paint tutorials for Space Wolves right now. They do look very good. I like the dark, gritty, grizzly, sparse look to them rather than standing out with so much powder blue and gold. They do almost look a little too dark in some tutorials, but TheApatheticFish seems to have a good color that doesn't look like dark grey armor walking through thick smoke They pop, but not too much at all. I'll have to see what I decide to go with. Shame they are so low on the win chart.

SG

Well, they are only bad in high-level competitive play.

In more casual play, they are still pretty strong. If everyone is taking 1-2 of their strongest unit and the rest medium/low tier units, SW do just fine.

It's just when everyone is taking the best thing they can that SW really suffer.

In my local gaming group, I win a lot more than I lose with my SW (even without taking Wulfen most of the time).

I'm generally unsatisfied with my Space Wolves.

I'd rather be BA, Vanilla Marines, or Deathwatch, they can do anything we do better; and pretty decently too; while our similar options are just worse.


That said, I'd be unsatisfied with my Space Wolves even if they were good. I just don't like them very much, period.

 beir wrote:
Well, they are only bad in high-level competitive play.

In more casual play, they are still pretty strong. If everyone is taking 1-2 of their strongest unit and the rest medium/low tier units, SW do just fine.

It's just when everyone is taking the best thing they can that SW really suffer.

In my local gaming group, I win a lot more than I lose with my SW (even without taking Wulfen most of the time).

For the most part, I'm only going to be playing casual games. And, if I do enter a tournament, it's only going to be for the fun of playing and meeting new people who are also into the hobby. While I'm truly not a competitive person, I also don't want army that loses all of the time as that can be frustrating and discouraging. So, if I win as many as I lose (50/50), then I'd be completely happy.

SG

You can certainly win half the time with a SW army in casual play, no question.

 beir wrote:
When the SW codex came out, I commented on the Adepticon GW stream that I was disappointed and thought it was weak.

Geoff and Frankie (their commentators) ridiculed me for not liking the book. I learned from that moment that any of the guys that are working closely with GW now simply cannot say anything negative about GW products and therefore have no credibility.

Anyway, based on ITC results, SW are the 2nd worst army in the game, by win %.

https://www.40kstats.com/

I think there is potential for the Codex, the real reason they are bad is because all SM's are bad. If GW fixed SM's I think we would do a lot better.

mightymconeshot wrote:
For color scheme look at the 30k colors. I based mine off those and loved how they turned out.

I'm thinking of the following for the armor color:

Primer: Grey
Base Coat: Mechanicus Standard Grey
All Over Layer: Dawnstone
Pin Shade: Nuln Oil

Do you think that Dawnstone would make the armor too bright?

Thanks

SG

I think that if you're going to be doing shades of grey anyway, why do a pin wash? You would save yourself a ton of time by just going one shade lighter on your base coat and then applying the wash to the whole model.

Ususally when a codex is bad you can stil do well with it, but your flexabilaty in what you bring is very limited,

If the tools you work with are bad you need to be real picky with what you use. The rule of cool is not in effect. If you have friends with more competettive books they will advice you to lighten up because you are being to competetive. But that is what you need to do in order to be in the samme ballpark.

I do not know what is comptettive in SW. But Long fangs has always been a good back bone.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 beir wrote:
When the SW codex came out, I commented on the Adepticon GW stream that I was disappointed and thought it was weak.

Geoff and Frankie (their commentators) ridiculed me for not liking the book. I learned from that moment that any of the guys that are working closely with GW now simply cannot say anything negative about GW products and therefore have no credibility.

Anyway, based on ITC results, SW are the 2nd worst army in the game, by win %.

https://www.40kstats.com/

I think there is potential for the Codex, the real reason they are bad is because all SM's are bad. If GW fixed SM's I think we would do a lot better.

That is not happening anytime soon.

 Niiai wrote:
Ususally when a codex is bad you can stil do well with it, but your flexabilaty in what you bring is very limited,

If the tools you work with are bad you need to be real picky with what you use. The rule of cool is not in effect. If you have friends with more competettive books they will advice you to lighten up because you are being to competetive. But that is what you need to do in order to be in the samme ballpark.

I do not know what is comptettive in SW. But Long fangs has always been a good back bone.

It's literally longfangs, wulfen spamming th/ss and wolfguard bikers with ss and storm bolter.

Wulfen only work because they can advance and charge something that really should of been the chapter tactic it works in 30k.

And wolf guard with the beta rules can pump out 16 shots per model while tanking incoming fire with T5 and 3++

But if your doing that you may as well play another chapter because it's just not a very thematic or fluffy way to play.

hobojebus wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Ususally when a codex is bad you can stil do well with it, but your flexabilaty in what you bring is very limited,

If the tools you work with are bad you need to be real picky with what you use. The rule of cool is not in effect. If you have friends with more competettive books they will advice you to lighten up because you are being to competetive. But that is what you need to do in order to be in the samme ballpark.

I do not know what is comptettive in SW. But Long fangs has always been a good back bone.

It's literally longfangs, wulfen spamming th/ss and wolfguard bikers with ss and storm bolter.

Wulfen only work because they can advance and charge something that really should of been the chapter tactic it works in 30k.

And wolf guard with the beta rules can pump out 16 shots per model while tanking incoming fire with T5 and 3++

But if your doing that you may as well play another chapter because it's just not a very thematic or fluffy way to play.

WG bikers are index only. It's hightly possible that GW will phase out this option soon. And numerous events restrict it already.

The sooner the better. I hate the indices.

No major ITC event restricts the index options.

Yet. The ETC does, however.

Martel732 wrote:
Yet. The ETC does, however.

GloRIOUs euROPeAn mEtA!!

Hey guys, let's play maelstrom of war with GW missions. That sounds like a good test of my generalship.

I dont approve of their missions, just the index ban

Banning the index also bans assassins and sisters of battle.

It also bans the nonsense crap people are going to mention now, like i somehow forgot them:

WhAT aBoUt InQuISiTiOn!!11

Like some guy is reading these forums 24/7 tightly clutching a Jokaero weaponsmith, waiting for them not to be mentioned so he can spring into action.

 ServiceGames wrote:
For the most part, I'm only going to be playing casual games. And, if I do enter a tournament, it's only going to be for the fun of playing and meeting new people who are also into the hobby. While I'm truly not a competitive person, I also don't want army that loses all of the time as that can be frustrating and discouraging. So, if I win as many as I lose (50/50), then I'd be completely happy.

SG

In casual games where nobody is bringing the really high powered combos space wolves can be fun in a herohammer kind of way. Wulfen are hard hitting and they have some really fun characters which can do funky stuff with that 6" heroic intervention.

As soon as you look at more competitive play you are hitting the same problem as all the power armour factions except Deathwatch, too expensive for units that do not hit that hard. Post-codex stats (https://www.tinkerapproved.com/post/the_metagame_cycle1) would seem to show that they are getting pretty typical results for a power armour faction.

Go for it. If you do go to a tournament you are very unlikely to hit the top tables but that's OK - the people on the bottom tables are having WAY more fun in most cases.

 Marmatag wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Yet. The ETC does, however.

GloRIOUs euROPeAn mEtA!!

Hey guys, let's play maelstrom of war with GW missions. That sounds like a good test of my generalship.

Don't judge stuff before trying it.
ETC is a team event it is so different than regular tournaments that who can predict what is silly and what is not.

After all the canon-40K events don't use maelstrom but ETC does, and it has a huge following so in some way it must be working correctly.

 Marmatag wrote:
Banning the index also bans assassins and sisters of battle.

It also bans the nonsense crap people are going to mention now, like i somehow forgot them:

WhAT aBoUt InQuISiTiOn!!11

Like some guy is reading these forums 24/7 tightly clutching a Jokaero weaponsmith, waiting for them not to be mentioned so he can spring into action.

Only banned for lists with no codex. Assassins are in, ba jump vets are out.

In my opinion, in addition to being weak, it's hard to build a *fun* Space Wolves list because so many of our buff options overlap.

Seriously. Like 70% of our options are either +1 To Hit in melee under various conditions, or Reroll hits in melee undervarious conditions. Then we've got standard Captain/Lieutenant buffs, a few other Wound roll modifiers (most of which are 1s only,) and lastly a relic, Warlord Trait, and squad who give extra attacks in melee.

That's 95% of our options, and outside of stacking the extra attacks in melee, it's generally not useful to invest in these heavily because there's so much overlap.

Space Marines are bad, but at least their options for core Chapter Tactics don't overlap most of their unit abilities and make everything feel redundant.