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So I've been thinking about how vigilus could turn out in a way to both evolve the story and bring new cool stuff. So obviously we could have the standard outcome which would be a narrow victory for the Imperium sending the warmaster back again but I think it could turn out differently.

So I think the Warmaster will appear and bring all his black legion reinforcements with him, this will be too much for the battered defenders to cope with and the planet will fall and leave the Imperium cut in 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This will be painted as the end for the Imperium but in reality it allows some cool stuff to happen, it will quite clearly lead to a Roman empire situation with both halves being split and trying to survive under separate governance, perhaps from the blood angels who emerge from the devestation of Baal?

Basically I think it all leads to another primarch returning to the fold, quite possibly a major player like Russ or Dorn who can lead another indomitus crusade style campaign to aid guilliman . They will somehow use the pylon tech to seal up large sections of the warp rift (not all of it but some ) this will include the final wave of Primaris dudes for now and will possibly come in the form of another campaign book.

Thoughts??

At this point I wouldn't rule anything out. Including the revelation all the Eldar are Exodite like extremists who fled a decadent empire and the true Eldar Empire saved itself and has returned to reclaim their homelands.

But your idea is far more plausible and better really.

I suspect Vigilus will be saved in campaign book 3 by a new loyalist Primarch - probably the Lion - though I do think I prefer the idea of Vigilus being lost.

Tyranids come and save everyone!

By save I meant eat.........



I'd actually really like to see GW use the whole campaign as an excuse to update not just Chaos but Eldar too. Have the early part of the campaign be a total loss for Imperials as they fall to ever increasing waves and power of Chaos and the Warmaster. Then suddenly throw a massive wave of Eldar at them; moving to help secure the future of the Imperium and to thus prevent the spread of Chaos taint as otherwise Chaos would split the Imperium in half. New models, and a massive update to their old existing line much like Chaos appear to be getting.

It would be a great way to update two old armies in the range and at the same time change the story. Even if the planet is held having it held by Eldar rather than the Imperium could force the Imperium to change and alter its Xeno-relations. Or perhaps the Eldar will feel the burn as the Imperium turns on them to retake their world once again.

 Overread wrote:
I'd actually really like to see GW use the whole campaign as an excuse to update not just Chaos but Eldar too. Have the early part of the campaign be a total loss for Imperials as they fall to ever increasing waves and power of Chaos and the Warmaster. Then suddenly throw a massive wave of Eldar at them; moving to help secure the future of the Imperium and to thus prevent the spread of Chaos taint as otherwise Chaos would split the Imperium in half. New models, and a massive update to their old existing line much like Chaos appear to be getting.

It would be a great way to update two old armies in the range and at the same time change the story. Even if the planet is held having it held by Eldar rather than the Imperium could force the Imperium to change and alter its Xeno-relations. Or perhaps the Eldar will feel the burn as the Imperium turns on them to retake their world once again.

Or better yet, turn this on its head and have Abaddon on the back foot, only to have the Eldar appear and hand him the advantage. After all, the Eldar are an unknowable, alien menace.

True but after Slaanesh sort of ate most of their people's souls and drove them into hiding and basically shattered everything of theirs the Eldar do kind of have a LOT of hate for Chaos

 Overread wrote:
True but after Slaanesh sort of ate most of their people's souls and drove them into hiding and basically shattered everything of theirs the Eldar do kind of have a LOT of hate for Chaos

It could be a long con. Abbadon gets cocky after his win and overstretches his forces allowing the Eldar to deal massive damage to them.

Surely in our heart of hearts we all know that Abby will eventually rock up (after a few, previously unheard of nobodies do battle on the SM vs CSM front) and just as all hope is lost and Vigilus is about to fall Ghazgkhull turns up (teleported by Gork and/or Mork to 'acquire' Speed Freek tech) and face plants Abby for no reason because he wants a good scrap. Then just as Ghazzy is about to literally curb stomp Abby into giblets Gork and/or Mork decide there's a better place for him to be (or was it really just as planned?!) and he teleports off somewhere else and Abby gets to run off and lick his wounds. Unable to admit that they were saved by XENO FILTH Ghazzy is classified as an 'Omega-Rho-Kappa' level sub human - a 'humork' and is immediately canonized as 'Saint Vigil' (blessed be his name). Saint Vigil goes on to have numerous misadventures across the galaxy 'saving' one world after another ensuring that heretics galaxy-wide are rooted off of planets (heretics can't prosper on a planet that no longer exists, heretic!). Abby decides he's had enough of war and becomes a hermit on a desert world where he eventually meets a young Skywalker.... Guilliman is attacked by Magnus and Mortarion, the 'wet bandits' as they are known, and sets up an elaborate series of traps that hilariously fool the duo while avoiding capture during the winter holidays. The Lion is finally woken up after Cypher manages to sneak into his crypt/bed and snatch a kiss, the two immediately fall in love and live happily ever after. Obviously.

Or I guess the Imperium can scrape a narrow, completely open, pyrrhic victory and everything stays the same, more or less but your guess is as good as mine.

Ladies and Gentlemen please be aware that An Actual Englishman has now broken. We'll be taking him to the retirement home for Broken Geeks later today. Hopefully a diet of thin soups, a staring window and endless re-runs of the first 5 seasons of the Simpsons, Old Star Trek and original Battlestar will keep him in a calm, mostly semi-sane state as he lives out his twilight years.

Yea I think Ghazgkhull Ironhide will turn up and bop Abadaddon when he's on the verge of victory, leading to a Chaos retreat. can't think of a better way of ending it really.

Another aspect might be that huge world Tyranids are building suddenly comes to life and fires some kind of anti-chaos beam at the world or somesuch. Or even at the Eye of Terror itself - it would really shake things up if the Imperium got Split in half, but also if Chaos lost their main entrance into the Galaxy and were then forced to corrupt existing worlds and rely on smaller incursions through demonic possession rather than through the great Eye of Terror.

 Overread wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen please be aware that An Actual Englishman has now broken. We'll be taking him to the retirement home for Broken Geeks later today. Hopefully a diet of thin soups, a staring window and endless re-runs of the first 5 seasons of the Simpsons, Old Star Trek and original Battlestar will keep him in a calm, mostly semi-sane state as he lives out his twilight years.

Was the wet bandits too far?

I'm thinking that vigillus is the siege of Vienna, and that the lion with return with a force of 10000 winged hussars to save the day.

Rogerio134134 wrote:

This will be painted as the end for the Imperium but in reality it allows some cool stuff to happen, it will quite clearly lead to a Roman empire situation with both halves being split and trying to survive under separate governance, perhaps from the blood angels who emerge from the devestation of Baal?

I would LOVE for this to be the case, when I was checking out the lore for 8th ed, I thought they were leading up to this until Rowboat showed up through the big ol' chaos hole in the middle of the universe and had the primarysue marines fix everything. I think half the imperium being cut off, with dwindling supplies and little hope of relief, while the other half is (comparatively) resplendent with resources and safety, but still unable to break the tide of xenos and chaos. I think it'd let GW keep down the less grimdark, more consumer-friendly path of primarchs returning, and Cawl inventing stuff, but also have a part of the imperium that is truly horrible and bleak and classically 40k for all us basement-dwellers.
Realistically, though, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a case of Chaos nearly kinda wins, only for a new primarch to show up and save the day.

 posermcbogus wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:

This will be painted as the end for the Imperium but in reality it allows some cool stuff to happen, it will quite clearly lead to a Roman empire situation with both halves being split and trying to survive under separate governance, perhaps from the blood angels who emerge from the devestation of Baal?

I would LOVE for this to be the case, when I was checking out the lore for 8th ed, I thought they were leading up to this until Rowboat showed up through the big ol' chaos hole in the middle of the universe and had the primarysue marines fix everything.

There's still not enough Marines, Primaris or normal, to "fix everything". There's still the Great Rift. There's still countless thousands of worlds in the Dark Imperium. If being able to defend Ultramar against a large Death Guard invasion, taking the Nachmund Gauntlet and saving Baal after most of the BA are dead, is "fixing everything", then I'd really have to question what you expected GW to do.

The Imperium's still royally messed up. They've just stopped bleeding, but are still missing limbs.

I think half the imperium being cut off, with dwindling supplies and little hope of relief, while the other half is (comparatively) resplendent with resources and safety, but still unable to break the tide of xenos and chaos. I think it'd let GW keep down the less grimdark, more consumer-friendly path of primarchs returning, and Cawl inventing stuff, but also have a part of the imperium that is truly horrible and bleak and classically 40k for all us basement-dwellers.

But... the current lore is WORSE than this! (not the quality of the lore, the quality of life for Imperial citizens).
The "we've got Terra and Ultramar on our side!" part of the Imperium is just as horrible and bleak as it always was. You've just got slightly taller Space Marines with slightly better guns, and they've replaced all the ones that died horrible horrible deaths when the galaxy split in half. They're also more religiously devoted and uplifted, seeing as Guilliman came back, but their overall quality of life is unchanged, perhaps even for the worse.
On the other side of the Rift, the situation got even worse, as they can't be supplied, are even further at risk from xenos and increased Chaos predation, and don't even have the morale boost of knowing Guilliman's back.

Even if you live in Ultramar, one of the best places to be in 40k, you're now dealing with more secret police (Vigil Opertii), an increased risk of cults and rebel uprisings, certain worlds still damaged (some permanently) by Nurgle's plagues, and all the other stuff that normal Imperials have had to deal with too.

Personally my gut feeling is Vigilus will be a endless meat grinder, the IoM may one day declare victory but it'll be like all the other battlezones where even post victory fighting goes on and no one ever REALLY wins.

 Kroem wrote:
Yea I think Ghazgkhull Ironhide will turn up and bop Abadaddon when he's on the verge of victory, leading to a Chaos retreat. can't think of a better way of ending it really.

But then Yarrick comes along and kills Ghazgkhull and becomes leader of the whole ork race, becomes the new emperor, as whatever orks believe becomes true and they believe he can't die and can kill and xenos just by looking at it. Yarrick then leads the entire ork race to save the dark imperium with a big scrap against chaos, but get warped into the warp, looks at the chaos gods and they die, looks at any other xenos race, they all die and keeps the orks around to stop tyrranid invasions, and eventually sends them off into a different galaxy where they find the old ones, have the biggest scrap in the history of scraps and the imperium becomes a nice friendly place without the constant state of war.

As I stated in my op I really think the thing the guilliman talks about in dark Imperium with using the pylons to seal up the great rift will be key here. It's not really touched on but it really stood out to me when I heard him say it (audiobook)

Rogerio134134 wrote:
As I stated in my op I really think the thing the guilliman talks about in dark Imperium with using the pylons to seal up the great rift will be key here. It's not really touched on but it really stood out to me when I heard him say it (audiobook)

that's more the IoM's end game. which is one of the big changes to the fluff, the IoM actually has a, potentially, acheiveable end game now. namely "seal the great rift"

Overread wrote:...it would really shake things up if the Imperium got Split in half, but also if Chaos lost their main entrance into the Galaxy and were then forced to corrupt existing worlds and rely on smaller incursions through demonic possession rather than through the great Eye of Terror.

I'm pretty sure the Imperium is already effectively split in half, though obviously yes, it would be even more so if they lost passage through the Nachmund Gauntlet. And I don't think the traitor legions are as reliant on the Eye for refuge as much anymore; the whole Rift is like one big Eye now anyway, right?

Sgt_Smudge wrote:...and don't even have the morale boost of knowing Guilliman's back.

I'm pretty sure at least some of them know. Don't the Blood Angels even have Primaris Marines in their ranks?

This is the rise of Caos, but I like the idea of two Imperiums. It is time for a new loyal Primarch. I think it will be Russ hunting Abaddon. Vigilus will be saved but then Angron will appear and everything will be near the end of Vigilus.

Vigilus is the new Cadia, this will take a looong time to change.

imagine this, Chaos and the imperium are beating the ever loving feth out of each other, then the full might of the tyranids arrive, massive shift in the setting, now you have the bitterest of enemies forced to work together just to survive, primaris marines striding the filed supported by iron warriors grand companies.


it will never happen, but just imagine.

Ages ago I did a thought experiment about it and you can get most of the factions into a loose alliance against the Tyranids.

A seemingly plot relevant amount of Primaris will die to save vigilus. This will have no impact on the actual setting. The black legion will get he-man next time as they blast off again. Everyone forgets that the Xenos factions were involved. Space Marine Codex 2 arrives. New marine discourse begins and the forums collapse under the weight of the "improved tactical marines" threads.

I also vote that the nids are going to come eat everyone.