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oke ive got a couple off armys but dont know how to kill knight easy or quick
in my sm/csm armys i dont have enough lascannons to kill 3 of them sm bloodangels, and own chapter csm ironwarriors and emperos children.
in my eldar i got only 1 knight 1wraith lord and 5 wraithgaurd 2 wave serpents 1 falcon and only 6 melta dudes
orks ?? forget it not enough firepower
gsc ?? dont know not enough mininglasers havent played those enough to get a idea
imperial gaurd got plenty of battlecannons but those dont seem to work very wel

if i focus on one knight the others kill my guys if i spread my fire they dont go down fast enough and kill my guys
so anny tips on killing them, i could avoid them and go fo objectives but i want to fight/kill them

For GSC, abberants and Rock saws, and patriarch with LD Buffs and using mental onslaught until an FAQ changes maybe. Rest don't know.

Bloodangels - Smash captains & Jump Pack death company charge in and kill it with thunder hammers...

CSM - you might have the option to go big yourself? Magnus/Mortarion/Renegade Knight... or Slannesh Obliterators with VotLW & Fire twice/on death.

Eldar - Dark Reapers + Guide/Doom

dont know for orks - sorry.

GSC - as mentioned by mightymconeshot abberants & rocksaws, smite, or if you are lucky the Kellermorph (theoretically he can do somthing like 24 wounds per turn...)

For orks just put 200 boyz on the field. the knight will run out of attacks before you run out of boyz so you can cap to win and even a knight will wilt under that many shootas. Alternatively a Tankbusta bomb with the grenade strategem can knock a knight down a peg

You don't kill it. You outscore it.

operkoi wrote:
For orks just put 200 boyz on the field. the knight will run out of attacks before you run out of boyz

Not entirely true. Assuming 5 "big knights" are on the field he has enough attacks to kill 37 boyz on average per player turn in melee alone (4 non gallant, 1 gallant) without any buffs or melee-specific household traits. If they fight in every turn, the orks are tabled by turn 3, and that doesn't include the guns each knight will have.
The point? You can't just outlast a knight army, you're going to have to kill some of them.

You kill some, and then outscore.

 skeleton wrote:
oke ive got a couple off armys but dont know how to kill knight easy or quick

Only play missions with Acceptable Casualties against Knights. It's that or spend several hundred dollars per army to get the tools necessary to deal with them.

Even with that or ITC missions, you still need to degrade their movement/shooting or kill some. S5 -1 AP or even 0 AP is good for wearing them down.

Not saying don't bring lascannons or equivalent but a high rate of fire heavy bolter profile ( str 5 AP -1) is actually the best way to strip wounds at range. CC also works but you need the best units in the game to do so.

Genestealer Cultists can lay down some craaaaazy buffs on their melee guys making it very easy to kill a knight. Not to mention you have three of the best psychic powers in the game for dealing with those things.

Mass hypnosis: overwatch? What's that?

mind Control: Nice Castellan/Crusader you've got there. Shame if it were to shoot one of your other knights in the back.

Mental Onslaught: High toughness, good wounds, great save, so I will punch you in the...leadership.

I have run one test game with GSC vs a knight, and on my turn 2, I mind controlled it and used it to wipe an enemy unit, then charged it with 10 acolytes (it got no overwatch due to Mass Hypnosis) and with Primus +1 to hit, Cult Banner reroll 1 to hit, and primus reroll 1 to wound, the knight was dead before I even got through my heavy melee weapons. 2 drills, one saw, took it down from 18 wounds left.

Your armies has the tools, you personally just dont. Pick 1 army and fluff it out so that you can actually enjoy playing it against all other players.

Maybe this is the wrong question.
If you battle an IK army, then play for the objectives more than ever.
With numbers and firepower you should get more scoring points and diminish the capabilities of the Knights.

Don't underestimate the importance of the movement phase. They move 12", which is enough, but not very much when you factored the huge base size (that impact on any rotation they made) and the fact that they need to avoid most of the scenery.

This came up in another thread, but under the movement rules the movement allowed each turn involves pivoting the base. With knight bases being so big pivoting the bases ads up fast.


If a knight base is 160 mm at the widest it means it has a circumfernce om 50,2 cm for the purpose of pivoting. Or 19,8 inches.

If it pivots around its own center one quarter that is 5 inches of movement right there.

 Cybtroll wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the movement phase. They move 12", which is enough, but not very much when you factored the huge base size (that impact on any rotation they made) and the fact that they need to avoid most of the scenery.

And that you can block their route with cheap chaff like grots. For orks da jump unit of grots and their entire army moves 8" forward period.

Exactly. To add insult to injury a Knight cannot move over Infantry, but ONLY fall back over Infantry.

Any squad of 5 in front of Knight (not in close combat with it) will effectively block it of force it to go backward. Even shooting them out the table will have stopped its movement (otherwise, you block even its charges).

I call it "Hugging the robot", and for the sacrifice of a 5 man squad a turn you will impaired a Knight movement.

 Niiai wrote:
This came up in another thread, but under the movement rules the movement allowed each turn involves pivoting the base. With knight bases being so big pivoting the bases ads up fast.


If a knight base is 160 mm at the widest it means it has a circumfernce om 50,2 cm for the purpose of pivoting. Or 19,8 inches.

If it pivots around its own center one quarter that is 5 inches of movement right there.

But no point can move further than 12". It's not free pivot.

In case you did not understand here it is again. If it pivots a quarter, 90 degrees, hat is 5 inches og movement aproximetly. If it pivots 360 degrees that is 19,8 inches of movement, well over it's allowed 12".

For the hugging the robot strategy try a flyer with supersonic. It can not be charged.

Use the terrain against them. Play for objectives and score those VPs.

Doesn't matter a single jot how many casualties they inflict, because they're completely awful at holding objectives, and otherwise scoring VPs.

Dip, dodge, duck and dive. Hug that cover. Take the long way round if it keeps you out of LoS - you've got the time to spare!

Look for ways to erode their wounds over time. You don't need to alpha strike them (though of course if you can, totally do!)

 Niiai wrote:
In case you did not understand here it is agqin. If it pivots a quarter, 90 degrees, hat is 5 inches og movement aproximetly. If it pivots 360 degrees that is 19,8 inches of movement, well over it's allowed 12".

For the hugging the robot strategy try a flyer with supersonic. It can not be charged.

If you rotate 360 then no point has moved more than 0" from original location because it's in same position to starting point. Start and end point of all points in model is exact same=0". If you turn 90 degree then that 5" is 5" less to move in direct line. So you pivote, one point already has moved 5" so that point can move 7" forward. It's not pivot and then move 12" as normal. That would be cheating.

You measure furthest point moved from start and end and if that's 12" all is good. If it's more by say trying to claim pivot movement doesn't count it's plain old cheating.

I know what you are trying to say. I'm just pointing out it's cheating.

Start base: AXXXXX

End base:

X
X
X
X
X
A

A is here point you measure. You measure position of A(or whatever moved furthest) from where it was at start and where it is end. That needs to be 12". It's NOT that you pivot around and THEN move 12". No free movement period. If you are long enough base with low enough M value you might not even be able to COMPLETE 90 pivot in a turn...

It is not cheating, I am very baffeld by your choise of worss.

I am counting how far the base moves. 8th edition movement does not count furthest point to furthest point on every point of the model from starting point to fineshing point. Instead it track how every part of the movement.

This would take into the account of pivoting on it's base. 90 degree pivot around its own acess would be 5" of the allowed 12.

If you pivot not around it's own acces but instead along the whole base 90 degrees, like the arms of a clock, you would need to double that up to 10" leaving just 2" for the reat of the movement.

If you want to arcue this further start a YMTC thread.

In case of Knight it's important th at you consider pivoting, because sometimes they need to rotate their base in order to pass through small passages.

About flyer, I consider their blocking abilities more an unintended rules comedy and avoid exploiting that. Especially when a small squad do exactly the same, but fluffier.

tneva82 wrote:

 Cybtroll wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the movement phase. They move 12", which is enough, but not very much when you factored the huge base size (that impact on any rotation they made) and the fact that they need to avoid most of the scenery.

And that you can block their route with cheap chaff like grots. For orks da jump unit of grots and their entire army moves 8" forward period.

Only thing I would strongly caution here: If you're playing against a good knight player, many of their "up front in your face" knights will have the Character rule, and will be able to Heroically Intervene. If you move up a chaff unit to block them, they will HI into them on your turn, get a free turn smashing your face in, and then on their turn they'll be able to fall back OVER the infantry, actually getting farther up the field.

Not so much a problem when playing vs an army of knights, but something to really keep in mind if facing the dreaded single knight opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
It is not cheating, I am very baffeld by your choise of worss.

I am counting how far the base moves. 8th edition movement does not count furthest point to furthest point on every point of the model from starting point to fineshing point. Instead it track how every part of the movement.

This would take into the account of pivoting on it's base. 90 degree pivot around its own acess would be 5" of the allowed 12.

If you pivot not around it's own acces but instead along the whole base 90 degrees, like the arms of a clock, you would need to double that up to 10" leaving just 2" for the reat of the movement.

If you want to arcue this further start a YMTC thread.

I would like to point out here that I think you are both arguing the exact same thing, against each other. This is a misunderstanding - you both seem to be describing the same thing and thinking the other person is arguing the opposite when they're not.

 skeleton wrote:

i could avoid them and go fo objectives but i want to fight/kill them

This is the exact problem with player's they claim imbalance when what they really mean is they can't play their army the way they want.

Knight's need to be hard to kill or they have no model's after 2 turns.
500 points of model shooting at things should do damage it's the equivelent of 3 tank commanders in points. Or 10 infantry squad and some CC's.

Stop trying to beat an army at their playstyle. Play objectives, hide, outscore, sacrifice units.

The real reason your probably struggling is knights play on a surface level a very simple game, kill enough and hope the enemy hasn't got enough points scored to win anyway.
Achieveing that consistently against a good player is incredibly difficult.
The problem is less experienced or competitively minded player's keep complaining that they can't out shoot/fight a list who has no other way to win.

 Niiai wrote:
It is not cheating, I am very baffeld by your choise of worss.

I am counting how far the base moves. 8th edition movement does not count furthest point to furthest point on every point of the model from starting point to fineshing point. Instead it track how every part of the movement.

This would take into the account of pivoting on it's base. 90 degree pivot around its own acess would be 5" of the allowed 12.

If you pivot not around it's own acces but instead along the whole base 90 degrees, like the arms of a clock, you would need to double that up to 10" leaving just 2" for the reat of the movement.

If you want to arcue this further start a YMTC thread.

Movement in 40k is about displacement. A unit spinning 360 degrees hasn't displaced at all - its start and end points are the same.

When a unit moves (displaces), no point on the base/hull can move more than the movement stat. If an oval has to turn sideways, you would measure from the edge of the oval that will become the new forward edge (once turned). Effectively you lose forward movement in this fashion.

Now, pivoting first then moving forward might consume more movement than pivoting while moving. I'd have to do some geometry to be sure, but you can do all measuring with a straight line as long as you pick which point will be the 'front' at the end of movement.

Google image search turned up zero images for this, unfortunately.

I belive you are wrong. Start a YMDC instead of raguing it here. It is off topic.

Edit I made one, move it here. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772036.page

Eldar might be best off allying in some Dark Eldar or Harlequins with Haywire weapons. They cause 1 Mortal wound on Vehicles on a 4-5 and D3 on a 6 to wound. Combine that with Doom and you can quite easily kill a Knight, even with Ion Bulwark and Rotate Ion Shields.

A squad of DE Scourages with 4 haywire Blasters will average about 6 mortal wounds per turn on a Doomed Knight yet cost under 100 points! Any normal wounds the unit causes are a bonus. You can easily field multiple squads of these that can drop in from Reserve on Turn 2 and melt a Knight from 24" away.

Ice_can wrote:

 skeleton wrote:

i could avoid them and go fo objectives but i want to fight/kill them

This is the exact problem with player's they claim imbalance when what they really mean is they can't play their army the way they want.

Knight's need to be hard to kill or they have no model's after 2 turns.
500 points of model shooting at things should do damage it's the equivelent of 3 tank commanders in points. Or 10 infantry squad and some CC's.

Stop trying to beat an army at their playstyle. Play objectives, hide, outscore, sacrifice units.

The real reason your probably struggling is knights play on a surface level a very simple game, kill enough and hope the enemy hasn't got enough points scored to win anyway.
Achieveing that consistently against a good player is incredibly difficult.
The problem is less experienced or competitively minded player's keep complaining that they can't out shoot/fight a list who has no other way to win.

Knights are not hard to kill If you play Aledrai soup, it is Marines and Necrons who have trouble killing enough Knights to not lose the game because lack of mortal wound spam ability, and their heavy hitters will usually be dead before being able to do enough damage.

I noticed that there is a SM player taking Guilliman, 3 Pred and 2 Repulsor and doing pretty Well in some recent big events. But I would think when facing IK, the good performance would rely more on luck with this list. By math, a Raven Castellan Knight would on average kill one Predator and one Repulsor at the same time, after that, even with Big G buff, the rest of the list will not have enough damage potential to IK.