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So I had a look at GWs website checking out available Primaris, thinking of maybe buying some. Then something odd stood out to me. Not a single Primaris was weilding a chainsword. Perplexed I checked the sprues and neither the Primaris captain, Intercessors, Inceptors, Hellblasters or even Reivers come with a chainsword in their sprues. Apologies if this has been brought up already but isn't this strange? The chainsword is such a 40k icon and it's just plain awesome. Why would you not include it in at least one kit of the new 40k poster boys? If I missed the chainsword in a kit then please enlighten me. Is this intentional? I mean there could be a lore reason behind it, or a design philosophy or something. It's also limiting because if you want one you'd need to convert it with a regular marine chainsword, which is designed with a standard marine size in mind.

There is one in Primaris Space Wolves upgrade.

Glumy wrote:
There is one in Primaris Space Wolves upgrade.

And the Blood Angels upgrades. Generic Primaris didn't get access to chainswords until CA18.

beast_gts wrote:

Glumy wrote:
There is one in Primaris Space Wolves upgrade.

And the Blood Angels upgrades. Generic Primaris didn't get access to chainswords until CA18.

Now if only our HQs could get a chain sword so we could take a primaris captain with the teeth of terra

It is frustrating that a Primaris Sarge can use a Chainsword, then forgets how to as a LT, and Captain.

Even more frustrating that a Primaris Sarge can use a Powerfist, forget how to as a LT, and remember how to as a Captain.

Reemule wrote:
It is frustrating that a Primaris Sarge can use a Chainsword, then forgets how to as a LT, and Captain.

Even more frustrating that a Primaris Sarge can use a Powerfist, forget how to as a LT, and remember how to as a Captain.

Yep. The gak weapon options of the characters is like my biggest gripe with the Primaris. The new Shadowpear characters are just adding insult to injury, not having real melee weapons at all.

 Crimson wrote:

Reemule wrote:
It is frustrating that a Primaris Sarge can use a Chainsword, then forgets how to as a LT, and Captain.

Even more frustrating that a Primaris Sarge can use a Powerfist, forget how to as a LT, and remember how to as a Captain.

Yep. The gak weapon options of the characters is like my biggest gripe with the Primaris. The new Shadowpear characters are just adding insult to injury, not having real melee weapons at all.

Agreed, if they fixed it that the Primaris Charecters could universally take just Chainswords, Power fists, and Power swords, it would do a lot to open up Primaris also.

Reemule wrote:
Agreed, if they fixed it that the Primaris Charecters could universally take just Chainswords, Power fists, and Power swords, it would do a lot to open up Primaris also.

I'm surprised GW hasn't made that rule change. It would let them sell Primaris Close Combat Upgrade sprues at the same prices as the other Primaris upgrades.

I'm generally pretty fine with the lack-of-melee weapons, since it's basically just tradition that these characters have great melee options and poor ranged options, and I don't buy melee upgrades for most of the characters I'm fielding anyway [and consequentially wish I didn't have to pay all those points for the heroic archetype when they could be company commanders], just the ones that expect to use them [are buffing units close to the front-lines].

That said, the infiltration deployment that the new captain has makes me sad he can't buy a Thunder Hammer. Since he starts so far forward, it seems pretty logical to give him a big beaty-stick to kill something with. I have ideas for him, but the best ones would involve him being scary in melee, which he unfortunately isn't.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm generally pretty fine with the lack-of-melee weapons, since it's basically just tradition that these characters have great melee options and poor ranged options, and I don't buy melee upgrades for most of the characters I'm fielding anyway [and consequentially wish I didn't have to pay all those points for the heroic archetype when they could be company commanders], just the ones that expect to use them [are buffing units close to the front-lines].

That said, the infiltration deployment that the new captain has makes me sad he can't buy a Thunder Hammer. Since he starts so far forward, it seems pretty logical to give him a big beaty-stick to kill something with. I have ideas for him, but the best ones would involve him being scary in melee, which he unfortunately isn't.

All these Characters are 70 points minimum though. Compared to a Primaris, you can get a Storm Bolter and Power Weapon for a more effective character fighting at either style. An extra attack and wound doesn't cut it.

It just feels waste to not give some sort of melee weapon to a WS2+ A5 character. Sure, my plan might not be to end up in melee with him, but the enemy might have other ideas and regardless, it is a nice option to have. It seems particularly stupid that characters who have ability to start closer to the enemy lines (and presumably pay points for it, like they pay for that WS and Attacks) have no option to take a melee weapon.

I was surprised they haven't done the plastic commander that regular space marines have had. Primaris are sorely needing some upgrading and different sets of helmets and armor. Right now they kind of feel samey, and them not having them on most of their sarges, or being able to customize your commanding units kind of sucks.

What's the point of having great heroes if they can't engage in glorious fisticuffs?

So, I hate to bring physics into a 40k argument, but think about size comparison. A normal chainsword is proportional to a Regular marine the way a Eviserator is to a Primaris.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, I hate to bring physics into a 40k argument, but think about size comparison. A normal chainsword is proportional to a Regular marine the way a Eviserator is to a Primaris.

So why isn't the power sword off the Gravis Captain some giant super-duper-epic power-greatsword statblock instead of just being "a power sword"? The size of the weapon as modeled has very little to do with the statline.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, I hate to bring physics into a 40k argument, but think about size comparison. A normal chainsword is proportional to a Regular marine the way a Eviserator is to a Primaris.

So why isn't the power sword off the Gravis Captain some giant super-duper-epic power-greatsword statblock instead of just being "a power sword"? The size of the weapon as modeled has very little to do with the statline.

Plus I don't think Primaris are bigger than Marines by a big enough margin to warrant holding a two-handed weapon in one hand.

Primaris chainswords exist, and the're no bigger than old chainswords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

So why isn't the power sword off the Gravis Captain some giant super-duper-epic power-greatsword statblock instead of just being "a power sword"?

It actually is a master-crafted power sword, and thus has better damage...

I would say to get used to it, unless its on the sprue or an upgrade chapter kit by GW it no longer gets rules. that said I do hope they release more primaris with chainswords, a clsoe combat unit with chainsword and pistols akin to assault marines would be cool. bonus points if its just dual wielding chainswords

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I would say to get used to it, unless its on the sprue or an upgrade chapter kit by GW it no longer gets rules. that said I do hope they release more primaris with chainswords, a clsoe combat unit with chainsword and pistols akin to assault marines would be cool. bonus points if its just dual wielding chainswords

But that already exists, and it's called Reivers. Well, they have same rules as such an unit would have, so you can just model them with some...

 Irbis wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I would say to get used to it, unless its on the sprue or an upgrade chapter kit by GW it no longer gets rules. that said I do hope they release more primaris with chainswords, a clsoe combat unit with chainsword and pistols akin to assault marines would be cool. bonus points if its just dual wielding chainswords

But that already exists, and it's called Reivers. Well, they have same rules as such an unit would have, so you can just model them with some...

That's what I did.

It does seem absurd that they appear to have abandoned one of the three most iconic pieces of Space Marine equipment. I mean, when one thinks of Space Marines, surely Power Armour, Bolter and Chainsword are three of the first words that come to most people's minds.

That said, considering what they've done to jetpacks - reassigning them to near distance harassment and aerial insertion heavy weapons platforms - I won't be surprised when we get a slow moving, heavily armoured tank equipped entirely with chainswords.

This is precisely why I won't buy into the primaris thing. What made Marines cool for me was all of the options and customization.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
This is precisely why I won't buy into the primaris thing. What made Marines cool for me was all of the options and customization.

Sadly, the removal of customisation is not just a Primaris thing, it is their new approach in general.

 Crimson wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
This is precisely why I won't buy into the primaris thing. What made Marines cool for me was all of the options and customization.

Sadly, the removal of customisation is not just a Primaris thing, it is their new approach in general.

Really? I thought the new ork stuff and GSC units had some good options

I'm fine with "legion loadout" for Primaris and such, but maaaan the Primaris HQs are so laaame. I expect the Phobos captain full release will just be the guy in the box since he has a separate sprue, which blows cause his gun blows. He's gonna feel like a expensive Company commander

 Ginjitzu wrote:
It does seem absurd that they appear to have abandoned one of the three most iconic pieces of Space Marine equipment. I mean, when one thinks of Space Marines, surely Power Armour, Bolter and Chainsword are three of the first words that come to most people's minds.

That said, considering what they've done to jetpacks - reassigning them to near distance harassment and aerial insertion heavy weapons platforms - I won't be surprised when we get a slow moving, heavily armoured tank equipped entirely with chainswords.

Oooh, you're so close! It won't be entirely armed with chainswords. It'll be 10 chainswords, two twin lascannons, an onslaught gattling cannon, an icarus rocket launcher, and space to transport 10 primaris models. It'll have a move stat of 4 inches, and you get to double your chainsword attacks if you don't move. WS 6+, BS3+

And it won't have power of the machine spirit.

Ohh armed with 20 Bolt Rifles. You can't fire more than 2 at the same unit though.

 Crimson wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
This is precisely why I won't buy into the primaris thing. What made Marines cool for me was all of the options and customization.

Sadly, the removal of customisation is not just a Primaris thing, it is their new approach in general.

Well, you know, except for Harlequins, who get to freely swap 3 different pistols and 4 melee weapons.

And the new GSC units, which all include at least some options (including at least 1 or 2 of the characters).

And the admech stuff, which include options for all units.

And the new tau stuff, which all includes options.

And the new deathwatch stuff, which all includes options.

And (since we have seen units with options not in the box) the new chaos stuff.

Really it's just been the new ork release and the primaris stuff that has not included any options.

The ork release, from a sprue design perspective, I understand completely. They went with no options because they wanted these vehicles to be single-sprue designs to hit their 45$US price point, versus similarly sized vehicles where they went with a double sprue design with options at their 60$US price point and got lambasted for it (think Dunestrider, Mek Gun, Contemptor Dread, Goliath Truck). They wanted the buggies at a low enough price point that people buy multiples and create a little mad max wacky vehicle squadron, so they did them as single sprues. But you can't get something to the scale they wanted to pull off with the ork buggies if you're wasting sprue space on options. If you want a comparison between what they can do with options on a single sprue vs what they can do without, compare the ork buggies' model to the new GSC buggy - the GSC buggy is significantly smaller. Because making a single optional bit or weapon is often multiple parts on the sprue: the GSC buggy had 8 pieces on the sprue that weren't used in the build I went for, and that was actually the setup that used the most bits (I built the Spotter).

So you're left with the primaris stuff, which is undoubtedly designed to be options-light compared to other marines. That is 1000% a deliberate choice. EVERY aspect of primaris is tuned towards drawing in new players, not existing marine players. That's why they are relatively elite, come in all the starter boxes, have ETB kit options for practically everything, and are deliberately designed to minimize the number of choices you have and the opportunities you have to design your models "wrong". You can't build your primaris marines with a flamer and a missile launcher. You can't build multiple guys with sergeant melee weapons and make them unplayable. You don't buy a bunch of stuff without transports and find out any unit not in a transport is effectively dead and can never get into range to shoot anything. You even have a hard time constructing your army with too much of any one particular type of firepower because of how aggressively rounded their stuff is designed to be.

That's the point of primaris marines. They are baby's first 40k army through and through.They and stormcast are there to get new players in the door, and honestly at this point I think people might have the chicken and the egg mixed up with them. Maybe they're included in every chapter not because GW is trying to shrink the expansive marine range down, maybe they're included in every chapter because they want someone with a primaris starter army to be able to buy Codex Space Marines, Codex Dark Angels, Codex Blood Angels, Codex Deathwatch OR Codex Space Wolves and be able to use all the models they own for that.

 Irbis wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I would say to get used to it, unless its on the sprue or an upgrade chapter kit by GW it no longer gets rules. that said I do hope they release more primaris with chainswords, a clsoe combat unit with chainsword and pistols akin to assault marines would be cool. bonus points if its just dual wielding chainswords

But that already exists, and it's called Reivers. Well, they have same rules as such an unit would have, so you can just model them with some...

I probably should have also specified wanting jump packs and being in the fast attack slot nto stelthy infiltrators, flashy loud power armored primaris jetting into combat

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I won't be surprised when we get a slow moving, heavily armoured tank equipped entirely with chainswords.

...can we....can we make this happen?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I won't be surprised when we get a slow moving, heavily armoured tank equipped entirely with chainswords.

...can we....can we make this happen?

This is why the plague drone with the flesh mower is one of my favorite models