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I was just wondering what people think might make up such an army? They are quite omnipresent in Imperial territory, yet never had any models of their own. Though they are meant to just buy time until the AM arrive they must have some kind of arsenal that might justify an army or even models for Necromunda or Kill Teams?

They are basically IG with a bit worse gear.

Pretty much, no super heavies, few leman russ' and chimera's. No balasisks, artillery comes from fixed emplacements. No flyers. Hardly any special weapons, and most heavy weapons come from heavy weapon squads.

Crimson wrote:They are basically IG with a bit worse gear.

Basically this.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:I was just wondering what people think might make up such an army? They are quite omnipresent in Imperial territory, yet never had any models of their own. Though they are meant to just buy time until the AM arrive they must have some kind of arsenal that might justify an army or even models for Necromunda or Kill Teams?

I doubt it with extra fancy models, as the Cadian uniform is supposed to be a somewhat generic Imperium uniform due to how widespread it is.

That said, with how huge the Imperium is, you can basically build a PDF army as you like. Planets with heavy industry and wealth could easily field PDFs that can match a Guard regiment (just not to the same scale as the Guard can throw around), while some isolated planet with zero industry or military tradition is basically just supplying bodies with little in terms of equipment or training.

In terms of gear in their arsenal, basically think of the bread and butter units for a "standard" PDF army - Infantry Squads, Leman Russ, Chimera, Basilisks, and Hydras. You'd see more standard weapons like grenade launchers and flamers over fancy toys like plasma guns. Regardless, at the end of the day, still just regular Guard units.

If I remember my Cain novels, PDF seem to be more the 'Conscript' quality of infantry? Guard regiments take and hone the best of the PDF, leaving the 'also rans' at home?

Old thread:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365346.page

1d4chan input:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Planetary_Defense_Force

Its also worth noting that a planets PDF could be established from a retired AM regiment. Nice think about 40k is the vastness of possibilities.

Basically a PDF can be any military force necessary to keep control, it can be a hive gang like on Necromunda or a horde of horse archers like on Chogris.

I like this description on the Montar PDF... "The total human and Abhuman population of the entire Montar System numbered less than 700 individuals, and Lord Kinwa's Planetary Defence Force consisted of an under-strength platoon with only 3 heavy weapons and no armoured vehicles".

A PDF is essentially identical to the IG in terms of variety, and it's level of quality is going to be commensurate to the military strength/importance of the planet. Planets like Cadia and Mordia would have ones almost indistinguishable from standard IG and is probably used as part of training up new forces.

Meanwhile, over on Buccolia 7, in a quiet corner of the galaxy where even the raiders wipe their boots before coming in, the PDF would lose a sharpshooting match against ogryn and CC against ratlings.

The PDF can be as varied as the guard. Some worlds will have lavishly equipped PDF's on par with the best of the Imperial Guard. Others may be little more than barely organized tribal warriors or peasant conscripts or anything else, they'll reflect the world of their origin.

Most commonly, they won't be as well equipped or supplied or quite as well led simply because they have to do all that on their own instead of relying on the vast resources, data, and experience of the Munitorum, and generally look like 2nd rate Guard regiments.

Still, it would be cool if they made a separate unit for the guard. Just make them a dirt cheap unit that hits only on 6's an has a 6+ save. They would suck, but would be amazing for fluff. Got the idea from "Dead Men Walking" where the DKoK conscripts the majority of a city and force them to fight the Necrons

BS 6+ sounds more like civilian who happens to point a gun in the somewhat right direction. Not like a semipro garrison. Also guard does not need cheap shielding units.

I said for fluff

The big crux for the PDF is that the Astra Militarum has the backing of the Departmento Munitorum, which means there is a much greater homogeneity of equipment and training among the IG. The PDF of a given planet will only have whatever the resources of that planet can bear.

There are lots of reasons a planet might be able to field a top notch PDF, though. Wealthy worlds, ones with a rich military tradition, or ones with access to high grade equipment and/or vehicles, might be able to put up regiments that are as good (and maybe even better, if smaller) as the larger IG regiments.

I definitely concur that PDF could easily be a fluffy-toned Guard force. You could go any number of directions. However, most of the routes would be non-competitive...so not something you'd run at tournaments, say.

Any guard element could fit into a type of PDF. Stormtroopers? Maybe one or two squads who are the best dressed, best trained and equipped personal bodyguards of the planetary governor? (Perhaps they're well trained and armed because the governor fears his normal PDF/conscripts and they're there to keep everyone else in line by threat of force)

Conscripts with rusted and poor equipment? Intentionally limiting your heavy weapons, or the "construction" of the units. Perhaps your conscripts are dressed up with all the finery of a French regiment from the Napoleonic wars...they just suck because they've never had proper training. Perhaps they've been dressed up to impress at functions and parades by a wealthy sponsor but have never cut their teeth in battle.

Maybe you have a super heavy tank. But it's the only one on the planet, leftover from 250 years back when a Guard regiment lost it and it was recovered and fixed (poorly) by the PDF? Maybe it's rusted to hell but is prized for what it is.

If you're on the outskirts of the Imperium maybe the planetary rulers have a squad of renegade/mercenary Space Marines in questionable armour, etc. Perhaps the PDF is equipped with old and busted export-only versions of the Chimera and Russ (perhaps the Russes don't have sponsons because they're export versions, or cheaper versions - a poorer STC)

Perhaps the entire PDF is out of touch with reality and marches around in lines and columns with laslock rifles, supported by stationary artillery batteries. Maybe the planetary governor has a Napoleon complex and thinks he knows what is best - waiting for a rude awakening when they face an actual modern military force, etc.

If you want to go Rogue Trader style - perhaps the PDF is fielding leftover Space Marine Rhinoes (the way the Imperial Army used to in the fluff). Perhaps the governor or his main generals actually wear Inquisitor style human-sized Terminator armour, etc. Loads of options.

I'd say it really depends on the planet. Throughout the novels I have read the PDF is pretty interesting in its composition. There are usually standout soldiers here and there but the majority are either conscripts or useless nobility appointed lifers. I would second simply using conscripts as your base troops.

I wouldn't limit their gear per se though. From what i've read they can still muster some nice equipment in small quantities. If I recall in one of the Cain novels he comes across a Depot with plenty of Chimeras, sentinels, Leman Russes and basilisks in varying degrees of combat effectiveness.

And lets not forget the Vigilant Guard on Vigilus is a full fledged guard army (with all equipment available) that is also a PDF because it is guarding a vital forgeworld.

Play it how you like and have fun with it! You could have a high grav planet with a ton of Ogyrn, or a feral world with tribesmen, or an overequiped but under qualified nobility PDF with more equipment than training (and solid gold lasguns), or maybe even a pack of chem addicted convicts that can barely muster the mental energy to shoot in one direction.

Probably wouldn't do a full fledged force. Most likely I would do as they did in "Dead Men Walking", just have PDF conscripts serve as a buffer between the Kreig regulars and the enemy. Probably could pass it off as a 20-30 man auxiliary detachment and have them stand in front of the Gorgon until I get close enough to unload its cargo of 50 combat engineers

I don't see the need for a separate unit or book for PDF. You can replicate them with the guard codex as is and just use what ever kind of models you want to represent them.

I think the PDF can be wrapped up from various souces and forms thru the game.

Penal Legions or todays Conscripts
Frateris Militia
PDF as noted in the 2nd War of Armagedon (rules in 3rd ed)
you can have abhumans as well as humans.

My PDF are mercenaries supervised by Commissars. The Knight worlds were listed as barely medieval in tech. When the Emperor liberated them many were given what became Knight Titans. These were to help fight/defend vs Exodites.
AND to keep power in the hands of the Nobles and not the masses.

So it goes to reason that many of the Knight Worlds have primitive forces. My PDF is based on the French Foreign Legions. The Knight O.W.L.s (Off World Legionnaires)

Each force has 1 magnificent Leman Russ tank and a slew of knock off lower level tanks of various designs. Only the Command units have Lasguns/Rifles. The rest of the units have AutoGuns (don't run out of ammunition!!!)

They are normally deployed on high casualty missions bartered by the Knight World Nobles.. It is common for relief forces to arrive at a garrison to find a single survivor or none at all. Still the alternative of joining the Legion is better than what the Imperial Authorities have in mind for these deserters, criminals, wanted mutans and outlaws. So the Knight O.W.L's are always full of fresh recruits seeking salvation and escape from the powers that be.

I suppose, we say "worse gear than the IG"; The IG covers everything from Cadian, Vostroyan, Mordian Guard to Atillan Riders, Chem Dogs, and feral world units with pointy sticks and a laspistol if they're lucky.

A wealthy Hive or Civilised world with scarred and life-hardened or professional soldiers with a study manufacturing base would hardly be any different than your run of the mill guard regiment, while less wealthy or resource bare regions, or less well ran organisations, might be lucky to have more than basic combat armour and auto guns with minimal armoured support, or use penal legions or gangs pressed or paid into service by the governing powers of the hive or planetary governor.

To that end, I'd base it on what kind of world they are based on, and what kind of allies they have.
I had quite some fun with these https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Imperial_Guard_Regiment_Creation_Tables

Maybe with Mechanicus or Marine allies, they would likely be provided at least the resources or leverage to requisition good tanks as support, even if they are limited in number, or are have close ties to Aeronautica regiments so can call on Flyer support even if its not actually their own. I'd personally use normal Infantry Squads, but perhaps avoid much in the way of weapon upgrades, or just use Conscript units. Maybe only Command get access to Chimeras, or even scratch or convert something else to be a taurox, but have it be a weaker local pattern.
I know on Krieg during their nuclear whoopsie they had a series of local stand-in tanks, the Siegfried and Ragnarok. Additionally, there is speculation that the Forge World Carnodon and Aurox are still around in modern 40k, esp now that 40k datasheets for the Carnodon say as much, but that being "worse" than the Russ and chimaera, are mothballed and used by PDFS and usually wind up ruined by the time more Guard reinforcements show up.

I myself am going to start a PDF/Serf force that's the auxiliary to my Chapter of marines, mostly because I have a Stormlord painted in their colours that I'd like to use as a transport for something. I intend to use scratch and heavily converted vehicles. Sentinels represented by armoured cars, for example. I was going to use the Daimler Armoured Car as a base but then Ridgerunners came out. I guess I'm kind of doing the opposite in upgrading guard vehicles to marine standard by conversion, rather than downgrading their appearance to slapdash local patterns.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I was just wondering what people think might make up such an army? They are quite omnipresent in Imperial territory, yet never had any models of their own. Though they are meant to just buy time until the AM arrive they must have some kind of arsenal that might justify an army or even models for Necromunda or Kill Teams?

Its hugely variable - Some are Dads Army - others are elite forces that are better equiped and trained than the Guard - see those of some marine Chapters homeworlds - the latter may even have failed aspirants who are retain some transhuman abilities.

So pretty much anything you want really.

It might also be important to note that on some worlds the defence force won't be united either. On worlds with several massive hive cities each city might have its own planetary defence force which might be totally different to another. Politics might even mean that they don't get along well with each other and operate almost totally independently; they might even fight each other on the side.


Others might have huge technological variation. A big urban area might have a well trained military force; whilst a more rural region of the world might have more backward or guerilla based troops

Whilst it does depend, there is a central conceit to their armament. At least, there was in the dim and dusty.

See, the PDF should be well armed enough to deter opportunistic invasion. A way of ensuring mere Pirates and other ne'er do wells can never truly threaten the sanctity of an Imperial World.

This should also mean sufficient arms and training to at best see off, and at worst hold off, a more determined attacker (Orks and the like).

But, not so well armed or trained that they pose much of a credible threat to the Imperial Guard - or the local Arbites. This is to prevent Planetary Governors acting out of turn, but can still thwart the enemy until The Proper Armed Forces can turn up and give the enemy a good shoeing.

This topic has been discussed roughly a month ago and plenty of people have only little idea how PDF looks like.


The first major difference is that the PDF belongs to the Governor and not to the Munitorum, and if the governor decides to dump enough money into it, they can be better trained and equipped than most regular Guard regiments.
The same applies the other way, resulting in a poorly coherent, undertrained and underequipped fighting force.

The second major difference is that the PDF has gear and training specialized to local conditions. It is nonsense to have heavy tanks on a swampy world, so they develop amphibious vehicles that can easily cross such terrain. Or armored snowcats on an ice world, where regular Russ would get stuck. And so on, you get the idea...

TL;DR The statement "IG with worse training and gear" is not a rule, but a mode (most frequent result),
because the training and gear they get depend solely on the governor and his funding. PDF can be a ragtag bunch of bowmen, almostAstartes and everything in between.

 Jimsolo wrote:
The big crux for the PDF is that the Astra Militarum has the backing of the Departmento Munitorum, which means there is a much greater homogeneity of equipment and training among the IG. The PDF of a given planet will only have whatever the resources of that planet can bear.

There are lots of reasons a planet might be able to field a top notch PDF, though. Wealthy worlds, ones with a rich military tradition, or ones with access to high grade equipment and/or vehicles, might be able to put up regiments that are as good (and maybe even better, if smaller) as the larger IG regiments.

Steel Legion are an example.

It's commonly both under-armed/under-trained and 'pretty sure these guys could nut a Marine, if push came to shove'.

Because the Governor's personal guard will tend to be the very best available - on account the Governor tends to have a permanent target staple to their bonce.

Moriarty wrote:
If I remember my Cain novels, PDF seem to be more the 'Conscript' quality of infantry? Guard regiments take and hone the best of the PDF, leaving the 'also rans' at home?

It is. You even had PDF army, Tyrant's Legion, which, despite being drilled by Space Marines and actually used as quasi-IG by Huron allowing it to gain extra experience actually had only WS and BS of 5+. They also chiefly used sub-flak armor (6+ save) and mostly had only access to grenade launchers and flamers as far as special weapons go, except in veteran teams (who were a lot less regimented and uniform than IG ones). The "IG is terribad, lul" meme seriously needs to end, it's an army using special forces grade human material (by modern standards) and equipment from the most technologically advanced IoM planets, PDF (which would actually probably compare favorably to modern armies as far as basic quality goes) doesn't even come close.

If Genestealer Cultists with mining gear can fight agaisnt Adeptus Custodes we have no excuses for making PDF playable.

I'm happy, honestly I didn't think this thread would stir much conversation but I was proven wrong.

You could probably base this entirely on how important the planet is to the imperium.

How dangerous the space and systems are.

And what it produces.

No point to have the guard if no planet can last out long enough for the guard to get there.
So I would say, anywhere tyranids, chaos forces or necrons would by necessity have fantastic PDF or they are dead.

If there had been orc infestations, it would likely be cheaper to equip local forces than sending guard every time there is an outbreak.

Apple fox wrote:
You could probably base this entirely on how important the planet is to the imperium.

How dangerous the space and systems are.

And what it produces.

No point to have the guard if no planet can last out long enough for the guard to get there.
So I would say, anywhere tyranids, chaos forces or necrons would by necessity have fantastic PDF or they are dead.

If there had been orc infestations, it would likely be cheaper to equip local forces than sending guard every time there is an outbreak.

yes and no - a rich backwater planet may have a incredably well funded force.