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I know they can be enemies to one another but with the great rift I don't see why they don't join together, few fleets could ever match them unless it was a constant attack. Yes they get their energy from the sun but multiple craftworlds can get energy from the sun at the same time especially with all the super giants lying about. I know they protect their worlds etc. but they could break off their fleet to go protect them when they are in danger and then come back and join the fleet. What do you think, will there be a time when the craftworlds get their gak together?
They don't hate each other, but there are slightly different culture in each CW. They are cities in their own right, so part of them not "merging" is because cities don't do that.
It's like asking why London and New York don't merge. They are no where near each other and even if they were, they have enough autonomy that any alliance would only last as long as both benefit. As soon as NY wants to pursue X, it'd peace out.
Galef wrote: They don't hate each other, but there are slightly different culture in each CW. They are cities in their own right, so part of them not "merging" is because cities don't do that.
It's like asking why London and New York don't merge. They are no where near each other and even if they were, they have enough autonomy that any alliance would only last as long as both benefit. As soon as NY wants to pursue X, it'd peace out.
Yeah, and they also have different priorities a lot of the time (besides survival), alongside the stigmas that different cultures would create. Saim-Hann, for example, is seen as somewhat savage by the majority of other craftworlders with their emphasis on honor and blood feuds. Biel-Tan is a proponent of re-establishing the Eldar Empire to its former glory, while Ulthwe is typically the "bigger picture" craftworld (at least when its lead by Eldrad) where they're focused more on defeating chaos as a whole rather than dealing with the inferior races other than using them as a means to an end.
In the millennia since the Fall, they've developed some pretty big cultural differences between each other. They can definitely do short-term cooperation (hell, they even cooperate with drukhari short-term) but long-term team-ups tend to eventually break down under the weight of those differences, I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/05 22:25:47
Galef wrote: They don't hate each other, but there are slightly different culture in each CW. They are cities in their own right, so part of them not "merging" is because cities don't do that.
It's like asking why London and New York don't merge. They are no where near each other and even if they were, they have enough autonomy that any alliance would only last as long as both benefit. As soon as NY wants to pursue X, it'd peace out.
I never said they hated one another. Its nothing like London and New York merging. The Eldar are not so petty and unwise, if the need was dire enough they would merge or take some drastic action. If earth was being assailed by aliens then New York and London probably would merge as nation states might in order to fight them, the whole earth might unite.
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Jimsolo wrote: In the millennia since the Fall, they've developed some pretty big cultural differences between each other. They can definitely do short-term cooperation (hell, they even cooperate with drukhari short-term) but long-term team-ups tend to eventually break down under the weight of those differences, I think.
Not if it was a federation where Craftworlds could come and go and they could take turns leading the fleet etc. The cultural differences in comparison to the great rift are negligible especially considering the Eldar as a race, they aren't humans after all. I mean its hard to believe the Imperium can function as a galactic empire for 10,000 years and more and the Eldar are too self absorbed to get their gak together. The worlds of the Imperium are so far removed from one another but still they can cooperate, even the Mechanicum that is basically outside of the Imperium in most respects.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/03/05 23:02:37
I think this is where I disagree, the eldar think they're in control, and that's their biggest problem. They don't realize they're the same morons who murderbanged a chaos god into existence, they think they've got a cap on that this time. That alone puts them well into unwise territory, but petty, you're talking a race that was upset people settled on planets they hadn't visited in millennia.
They are grim dark space elves, they act like high and mighty elves but in reality they're just kinda dumb and don't realize it to their own massive detriment. Hence the circling the drain they've been doing, or embracing the god of their own death. Admittedly, their better option, still, not great.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 11:24:50
Even if they wanted to join they really can't. The Craftworlds drift on wildly different courses far from each other - you know, physically, in the realspace of our galaxy. They only move at sublight speed, they're far too large to use the Webway and while Eldar can use the Warp for travel that's about as foolish as you can get. Ships might risk a few LY for a great enough prize, a Craftworld under no circumstances.
And the Webway network, while still impressive, is not what it was in the days of the Eldar Empire. The heart of it was the old homeworlds, the same place that's now the Eye of Terror. All (or so close it makes no difference) routes through there are closed or too dangerous to use. Many direct connections have been severed, forcing travelers to take long detours to reach certain locations. Some places can't be reached by starships, only on foot or in some small vehicle. The reason Eldar Corsairs, Dark Eldar raids and such are more common in some places is that there is a conveniently large portal close by. Their ships are powerful, but they can't reliably project power very far from a large enough portal. Which not every Craftworld's fleet might even be able to reach due to the Webway being badly damaged.
Seems like they work together about as much as would be reasonable. They may not all actively hate each other, but there are practical as well as cultural issues that prevent effective co-operation. The Craftworlds are a long way apart, for one thing. They have grown to be pretty much completely self-sufficient and self-reliant over the years to the point where joining together would probably not have that many benefits. The physical distance between them means that even if one is threatened it's not like the whole Eldar race is too. All of the major Craftworlds have survived for 10,000 years in their current state so they're probably pretty happy with the status quo.
There's also the possibility that attempting to alter that status quo might attract the attention of the Imperium. While the Eldar remain a disparate race of individually powerful but ultimately fairly isolated enclaves the Imperium seems happy to leave them be and exists in a semi-peaceful state with them, or at least a not entirely antagonistic one. If they were to start forming their own new empire they might find the Imperium suddenly becomes very interested in such a potentially dangerous shift in policy.
It's also probably to do with the way GW wants Eldar to be seen in the background too. They want Eldar to be the shattered ghost of their previous empire. Banding together to attempt to reform that empire completely changes one of the key narratives running through the Eldar background.
If they all merged together it would also be a pretty big target for Chaos, right? I mean, the psychic energy concentrated in one place alone could attract all the daemons in the galaxy and at least all Slaanesh followers as well.
This is just based on my understanding of the fluff and seeing that eldar seem to lose every fight, especially the important ones .
They all have vastly different cultures and goals. Biel-Tan want to restore the Empire, Lugganath want to move inside the Webway, Ulthwe just want to stop Chaos, Iyanden want to stop dying. It's not exactly easy to get them to work together, Farseers on each Craftworld barely agree sometimes.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Galef wrote: They don't hate each other, but there are slightly different culture in each CW. They are cities in their own right, so part of them not "merging" is because cities don't do that.
It's like asking why London and New York don't merge. They are no where near each other and even if they were, they have enough autonomy that any alliance would only last as long as both benefit. As soon as NY wants to pursue X, it'd peace out.
I never said they hated one another. Its nothing like London and New York merging. The Eldar are not so petty and unwise, if the need was dire enough they would merge or take some drastic action. If earth was being assailed by aliens then New York and London probably would merge as nation states might in order to fight them, the whole earth might unite.
It is like that. The craftworlds are basically different Eldar nations, and it's not unknown (although rare) for them to come to blows on occasion. They all want to Make the Eldar Great Again, but they disagree on how to do that.
The Eldar are not so petty? Really? The Eldar are nothing BUT petty.
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Spetulhu wrote: Even if they wanted to join they really can't. The Craftworlds drift on wildly different courses far from each other - you know, physically, in the realspace of our galaxy. They only move at sublight speed, they're far too large to use the Webway and while Eldar can use the Warp for travel that's about as foolish as you can get. Ships might risk a few LY for a great enough prize, a Craftworld under no circumstances.
And the Webway network, while still impressive, is not what it was in the days of the Eldar Empire. The heart of it was the old homeworlds, the same place that's now the Eye of Terror. All (or so close it makes no difference) routes through there are closed or too dangerous to use. Many direct connections have been severed, forcing travelers to take long detours to reach certain locations. Some places can't be reached by starships, only on foot or in some small vehicle. The reason Eldar Corsairs, Dark Eldar raids and such are more common in some places is that there is a conveniently large portal close by. Their ships are powerful, but they can't reliably project power very far from a large enough portal. Which not every Craftworld's fleet might even be able to reach due to the Webway being badly damaged.
I am almost 100% certain the Eldar do not use the warp to move the Craftworlds, they use space-located Webway gates.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 12:51:09
If we assume that the galaxy as depicted in the 40k maps is supposed to be the real Milky Way, then at least some of the craftworlds must have undertaken some sort of FTL travel (as has The Rock), as they're more than 10,000 light years from the Eye of Terror.
However, as usually depicted, they just trundle slowly through realspace, and dispatch emissaries, armies and fleets through the Webway.
AndrewGPaul wrote: If we assume that the galaxy as depicted in the 40k maps is supposed to be the real Milky Way, then at least some of the craftworlds must have undertaken some sort of FTL travel (as has The Rock), as they're more than 10,000 light years from the Eye of Terror.
However, as usually depicted, they just trundle slowly through realspace, and dispatch emissaries, armies and fleets through the Webway.
Indeed, its a slight plothole. One could ignore it, or accommodate, assuming they were built at the point of an existing major web gate, built the city around the gate, and just started carrying the gate with them. Now that I typed it, I kind of like that.
As an image thought, imagine if a gate is on a large asteroid. Imagine that someone strapped rockets on the asteroid and then builds a city on the asteroid. They then have a (nonFTL) moving craftworld city, that is way hell away from the eldar empire. I would imagine in history there were many built like this that were actually in the "blast" area.
Additionally, these could have been cities or ports already in existence before the fall, outposts outside of the empi8re. The eldar that escaped the tumult were the equivalent of zealouts. Like the Huegenots and other oppressed who fled to the New World (or the crazies that travelled to nowhere in Waco as a newer example), they could have fled to these far locations.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
AndrewGPaul wrote: If we assume that the galaxy as depicted in the 40k maps is supposed to be the real Milky Way, then at least some of the craftworlds must have undertaken some sort of FTL travel (as has The Rock), as they're more than 10,000 light years from the Eye of Terror.
However, as usually depicted, they just trundle slowly through realspace, and dispatch emissaries, armies and fleets through the Webway.
Indeed, its a slight plothole. One could ignore it, or accommodate, assuming they were built at the point of an existing major web gate, built the city around the gate, and just started carrying the gate with them. Now that I typed it, I kind of like that.
As an image thought, imagine if a gate is on a large asteroid. Imagine that someone strapped rockets on the asteroid and then builds a city on the asteroid. They then have a (nonFTL) moving craftworld city, that is way hell away from the eldar empire. I would imagine in history there were many built like this that were actually in the "blast" area.
Additionally, these could have been cities or ports already in existence before the fall, outposts outside of the empi8re. The eldar that escaped the tumult were the equivalent of zealouts. Like the Huegenots and other oppressed who fled to the New World (or the crazies that travelled to nowhere in Waco as a newer example), they could have fled to these far locations.
We have at least one written example of a craftworld, namely Mymeara, that not only began it's journey away from core Eldar space some time before the fall but actually reached the edges of Eldar controlled space by the time of The Fall and considering that prior to The Fall Eldar were THE galactic empire there is no telling how far from the Eye surviving craftworlds really begun their existence and how far into the exodus fleets of small ships actually started to merge into craftworld superstructures.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 17:32:42
Indeed, its a slight plothole. One could ignore it, or accommodate, assuming they were built at the point of an existing major web gate, built the city around the gate, and just started carrying the gate with them. Now that I typed it, I kind of like that.
As an image thought, imagine if a gate is on a large asteroid. Imagine that someone strapped rockets on the asteroid and then builds a city on the asteroid. They then have a (nonFTL) moving craftworld city, that is way hell away from the eldar empire. I would imagine in history there were many built like this that were actually in the "blast" area.
Additionally, these could have been cities or ports already in existence before the fall, outposts outside of the empi8re. The eldar that escaped the tumult were the equivalent of zealouts. Like the Huegenots and other oppressed who fled to the New World (or the crazies that travelled to nowhere in Waco as a newer example), they could have fled to these far locations.
I was always under the impression that Webway gates can't move, because they are just points in space, much like the wormhole in Star Trek: Deep Space 9, and that the physical constructions that are often called Webway gates are just the mechanisms used to access said points and are physically bounded to these points in space.
As for the problem of gates that exist on worlds that must move about constantly due to that world's orbit, my theory is that the gate itself can be huge, perhaps as big as the entire stellar system, meaning that the physical gate will work so long as it is anywhere within that system.
As to how they get around everywhere so fast? Simple! It's because there are exactly enough gates in exactly enough places as the plot requires. Either that, or the Eldar do also have Warp drives and Gellar fields; they're just really fething scared to use them.
They don't band t9gether because the plot requires them to be the scattered and fading remnants of a once all powerful empire. If They could all just take a quick webway jaunt to meet up somewhere to brofist and seed the empire once more then They would be rather less tragic figures.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Imagine a dinner party with one steriotypical elsar from each major craftworld. I will not say witch is witch, just guess:
Are really into strict military disaplin, and do not want immigrants inti their lands!
Keeps meddeling in your afairs, subacribes to astrolagy and are a bit loony.
Comes from a famely where many members from each generation wants to travel the world. Very undiseplinary. Big on consoiracy theories and some ancient evil.
Keeps resurecting their famelies in the pet semetery.
Are really into fast cars and payback. Carries a blood oath for genrations.
Yeah, they are gonnw get on great. Ad that the craftqorlds move reeeeeaaaaal slow and are in different places and the ods are not good.
Are really into strict military disaplin, and do not want immigrants inti their lands!
Right wing conservatives?
Keeps meddeling in your afairs, subacribes to astrolagy and are a bit loony.
Hippy socialists?
Comes from a famely where many members from each generation wants to travel the world. Very undiseplinary. Big on consoiracy theories and some ancient evil.
Scientologists?
Keeps resurecting their famelies in the pet semetery.
Hardcore Stephen King fans?
Are really into fast cars and payback. Carries a blood oath for genrations.
.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
