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Made in de
Inspiring Icon Bearer






While I'm not trying to get too excited about Warcry just yet, now I have a couple of conversions for Chaos champions swirling around in my head and I'd like to check if there's insurmountable conflict with the lore before I put knife to plastic. Probably easy stuff if you know the background, but I haven't really read any since the original Flesheater Courts book, so I'm a bit behind.

I'm looking to buy Steelheart's Champions because...

1. the female Sigmarine looks like she'll fit nicely on a base with a Chaos champion standing over/on her decapitated corpse, holding the head in hand. Think new Skulltaker for a rough idea of the pose. Does that work? Or does the entire Sigmarine body including armor and everything get zapped away upon death? I totally forgot how that works.

2. I like the big hammer guy in the set. And while I don't have a problem with Sigmarines, everything is better once it felt the loving embrace of Slaanesh. So the question is, could a Sigmarine theoretically be corrupted by Chaos or do they have plot armor? I think it'll work either way, but I'd like to know if I'm converting a turned Sigmarine or a Chaos champion styled in mockery of Sigmar's finest.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

The lore with AoS is a bit flexible in some terms.


First up there are recorded incidents even as early as the Realmwar books where the escaping soul/power of a stormcast is intercepted from reaching Sigmar. However in those cases the Stormcast still vanishes, its just redirected into another vessel.


As for corruption in Inferno (its either 1 or 2) there is a Stormcast who appears to have "fallen" in so much as they have their moral broken to the point where they've appeared to give up. However it doesn't outright say they've fallen beyond Sigma's power/calling and are thus able to be corrupted by Chaos.



Unless the Battletome expands on the concept I don't know if we've got a fixed answer for if Stormcast can fully leave Sigma's ranks or be corrupted by others. There are one or two in the stories that appear to have complex histories (at least one in the Realmwars appears to be jointly owned/united/controlled/influenced by both Nagash and Sigmar, but that appears to be something established before they became a Stormcast.



As for armour I think it vanishes with them "normally" however if you look at Daughters of Khaine Khinerai one of the models has a Stormcast face plate on their hip. So in theory armour can get left behind.


I would say that certainly the right Chaos magic and the right situation and you can easily pose standing over the broken shell of a stormcast; the body gone and the armour left sizzling and burned from the lightning.
As for Corrupt Stormcast there are hints that some fall from the good path somewhat, but thus far none have fallen fully to Chaos to know (that I've read of though it might have happened)



Certainly the Realms are big enough to allow most possibilities to exist given the right application of the proper magics.

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






There's plenty of instances on models of damaged Stormcast armour. So it's just armour and can get left behind if separated from the body. There's been no direct instances of a Stormcast falling to chaos, however there's the instance where a chaos lord of Nurgle (who's name escapes me right now) was able to be cleansed and reforged into a Stormcast. So you could have swings and roundabouts later on. But stop calling them sigmarines will you? Get's irritating and tiresome.
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






When killed, Stormcast disappear, armour, weapon and all in a bolt of lightning. We do have plenty of 'but's to that, though: there's plenty of evidence that pieces of armour knocked off prior to death stick around and there are examples of Stormcast losing their weapons and coming back post-reforging looking for them. We also have examples of stormcast straight up dying when chaos employs suitable maguffins.

As for whether Stormcast can fall to Chaos, that one's more tricky. Your baseline stormcast fought against chaos to the last and with their dying breath begged sigmar to let them keep fighting against chaos; then they were inspected by Sigmar, found worthy, then reforged, a process which repeats every time they fall in battle. Having one fall to chaos would be a big surprise, but I think the idea of a Chaos champion going around in sigmarine armour would be a cool and mysterious character!

I have a sigmarine in my bloodbowl ork team - I like the idea that he could have fallen through a portal, bumped his head, and been convinced he's a star bloodbowl player.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 13:09:25


I've heard it said that she can melt you with her eyes. 
   
Made in de
Inspiring Icon Bearer






Thanks for the help, guys. I can live with that.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
But stop calling them sigmarines will you? Get's irritating and tiresome.


But if I do that, how will people know who I'm talking about?

 Captain Joystick wrote:
As for whether Stormcast can fall to Chaos, that one's more tricky. Your baseline stormcast fought against chaos to the last and with their dying breath begged sigmar to let them keep fighting against chaos; then they were inspected by Sigmar, found worthy, then reforged, a process which repeats every time they fall in battle. Having one fall to chaos would be a big surprise, but I think the idea of a Chaos champion going around in sigmarine armour would be a cool and mysterious character!


You know, when you put it like that I think I really should leave the question of identity unanswered.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




The sigmarines didn't always fight chaos.

The settra sigmarine for example hates nagash.

I believe that sigmar chooses those he deems as being his champions based on several parameters.

I feel some of them falling to chaos is a matter of time. The mirrors between AOS and 40k are not very subtle in a lot of cases.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in de
Inspiring Icon Bearer






Settra is a Sigmarine now?

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






There's an off the cuff remark in the new Hamilcar novel that he's friends with a Lord Celestant known as Settrus who leads a Stormhost known as the Imperishable's and who has an especially large loathing of Nagash.
   
Made in de
Inspiring Icon Bearer






Well then, that's not very subtle.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Geifer wrote:
Settra is a Sigmarine now?
He finally got his flawless immortal body.

Anyways, ditto to armor that is not equipped to the stormcast not dissapearing when they die. There are effects that make it so the whole body sticks around too. The Mighty Lord of Khorne's reality splitting axe leaves behind a stormcast corpse, and stormcase slain in the realm of chaos also just sit there, for example.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
There's an off the cuff remark in the new Hamilcar novel that he's friends with a Lord Celestant known as Settrus who leads a Stormhost known as the Imperishable's and who has an especially large loathing of Nagash.

If that's how Settra ended up I think I'd cry.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




The author has since commented that he plans on expanding on that and that there will basically be a settra the sigmarine storyline happening.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






pm713 wrote:
 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
There's an off the cuff remark in the new Hamilcar novel that he's friends with a Lord Celestant known as Settrus who leads a Stormhost known as the Imperishable's and who has an especially large loathing of Nagash.

If that's how Settra ended up I think I'd cry.


Well prepare your tears then. And as said above, he got exactly what he wanted. His golden body, his legion to lead for eternity and the chance to kick Nagash's teeth in when he feels like it. And he serves a god like he has always done.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




auticus wrote:
The author has since commented that he plans on expanding on that and that there will basically be a settra the sigmarine storyline happening.


Hrmm. I did wonder about the tomb in the Forbidden Power video. While there were Sigmarine symbols, the rest of the dressing looked very faux-Egyptian (plus the inevitable skulls, because warhammer).
Maybe my musing had more weight than I thought.

On the upside, they could easily bring back the Necrosphinx as 'Sigmarine Griff-man Kolossos' or somesuch nonsense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 23:45:17


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

One of the early books/audiodramas had chariot riding undead fighting Archaon, but nobody seemed to care back then.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Kanluwen wrote:
One of the early books/audiodramas had chariot riding undead fighting Archaon, but nobody seemed to care back then.


Eh chariots are not all that rare overall and sometimes its really easy to miss subtle hints like that in a book. Also with the early stuff a lot of the long term old world fans just weren't getting into it - they were right out (esp I suspect TK players who just lost their army)

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




TK players didn't really mass exodus until GHB official points basically stopped supporting them and they saw the writing on the wall.

Which was unfortunate.

TK is one of my top 3 armies that I loved, so I definitely understand the feeling of being emotionally invested in a faction and having them tore away.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in tr
Dakka Veteran





 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
There's plenty of instances on models of damaged Stormcast armour. So it's just armour and can get left behind if separated from the body. There's been no direct instances of a Stormcast falling to chaos, however there's the instance where a chaos lord of Nurgle (who's name escapes me right now) was able to be cleansed and reforged into a Stormcast. So you could have swings and roundabouts later on. But stop calling them sigmarines will you? Get's irritating and tiresome.


Particularly in the AoS forum, I can understand in other places people calling them that, but here is meant to be a safe place..
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





The stormcast battletome references this directly. If a Stormcast dies completely whether due to a magical weapon like Korghos Khul's axe or some other means, then their armour is left behind.
There have been no stormcast who have fallen to chaos yet, but there is no reason you couldn't have a chaos champion with similar armour. I have seen plenty of examples of this type of conversion.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ambushing Wargor




Baltimore, Maryland

auticus wrote:
The author has since commented that he plans on expanding on that and that there will basically be a settra the sigmarine storyline happening.


I follow David Guymer on facebook and he has made clear that he never said that.

"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Kanluwen wrote:
One of the early books/audiodramas had chariot riding undead fighting Archaon, but nobody seemed to care back then.
There was a fight against a Necrosphinx (and was even called exactly that) as well.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




So he directly said he never said that and it wasn't happening?

Interesting. The guys talking about that are usually pretty spot on with what they are talking about.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in de
Inspiring Icon Bearer






Voss wrote:
auticus wrote:
The author has since commented that he plans on expanding on that and that there will basically be a settra the sigmarine storyline happening.


Hrmm. I did wonder about the tomb in the Forbidden Power video. While there were Sigmarine symbols, the rest of the dressing looked very faux-Egyptian (plus the inevitable skulls, because warhammer).
Maybe my musing had more weight than I thought.

On the upside, they could easily bring back the Necrosphinx as 'Sigmarine Griff-man Kolossos' or somesuch nonsense.


It certainly looked Egyptian like to me. But of course since GW dropped Tomb Kings I tend to only associate that with Nagash when it comes to Age of Sigmar.

So who knows. Certainly not me. I will say I'd rather have Tomb Kings back than select Tomb King characters stuffed in Sigmarine armor.

auticus wrote:
TK players didn't really mass exodus until GHB official points basically stopped supporting them and they saw the writing on the wall.

Which was unfortunate.

TK is one of my top 3 armies that I loved, so I definitely understand the feeling of being emotionally invested in a faction and having them tore away.


Can't speak for any other Tomb King player but the moment they dropped Tomb Kings I thought it was over. Doesn't matter that they still got points in the first General's Handbook, it was only a matter of time.

I found it especially irritating considering Death alongside Destruction was a pretty tiny "Grand" Alliance to begin with without dropping one of the two old Fantasy armies comprising it.

Chikout wrote:
The stormcast battletome references this directly. If a Stormcast dies completely whether due to a magical weapon like Korghos Khul's axe or some other means, then their armour is left behind.
There have been no stormcast who have fallen to chaos yet, but there is no reason you couldn't have a chaos champion with similar armour. I have seen plenty of examples of this type of conversion.


Dies completely, as in permanently, never to be resurrected again? Work's for me. I just want the flashy armor. What happens to the owner is of no consequence to me.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ambushing Wargor




Baltimore, Maryland

auticus wrote:
So he directly said he never said that and it wasn't happening?

Interesting. The guys talking about that are usually pretty spot on with what they are talking about.


Yep, he posted a screen cap of a similar statement that looked to be from the TGA thread regarding Settrus and said, I quote "Oh my god. NO HE fething DIDN'T".

It was a pretty funny thread. Apparently Josh Reynolds (another prominent BL author for those that don't know) warned him against even adding that Easter Egg. A couple other BL authors and a former editor got in on the fun too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/15 17:31:04


"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




Cool thats good to know. Thanks for the update. I stand corrected then.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Additionally, I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet or not but the March(Assassins) issue of White Dwarf has Phil Kelly talking about Stormcast.

People make comparisons between Stormcasts and Space Marines, but Stormcast don't fall to Chaos. Instead they become more and more ordered with every reforging--they lose their ability to register morality in shades of grey and begin to see it only in black and white, wrong and right. In a way, that's just as scary as a noble warrior falling to Chaos, because while they are technically on the side of Order, the Stormcast Eternals are uncompromising, lethal and brutal in the pursuit of their goals. What price will the people of the realms have to pay for salvation at their hands?
   
Made in us
Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot





There was a Stormcast in Soul Wars that was transformed into a Knight of Shrouds, but at that point, they are no longer a Stormcast.
 Geifer wrote:
Thanks for the help, guys. I can live with that.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
But stop calling them sigmarines will you? Get's irritating and tiresome.


But if I do that, how will people know who I'm talking about?

Those people should learn the names then and not trying to be the class clown who thinks it's funny.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 Nova_Impero wrote:
There was a Stormcast in Soul Wars that was transformed into a Knight of Shrouds, but at that point, they are no longer a Stormcast.

You're referring to Malendrak, right?

He wasn't a Stormcast. He was Freeguild.
   
Made in us
Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot





 Kanluwen wrote:
 Nova_Impero wrote:
There was a Stormcast in Soul Wars that was transformed into a Knight of Shrouds, but at that point, they are no longer a Stormcast.

You're referring to Malendrak, right?

He wasn't a Stormcast. He was Freeguild.

I was talking about Pharus Thaum. Although, I'm trying to think if he turned into a Knight of Shrouds or not now.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

Bear in mind, you might be talking about the novel while I'm talking about the little fluff/profile book that came with Soul Wars proper.

I could understand the confusion with regards to Malendrak as it talks about Anvils of Heldenhammer holding a gate and Malendrak's men doing the same--but it makes it clear that he's holding a different gate.
   
 
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