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Ello

How goes the rules for teams that wanna deepstrike first in the game?
Can you start everything in reserve?
The non-deepstrike team gets non-shooting phase in his turn 1?

Raven Guard vs Blood Angels (Both start everything in reserve, beside raven guard doesnt have a problem since they infiltrate)
Like if two deep striking teams vs each other, the first team goes on and gets something on the table (Both teams start with everything in reserve) and the second team fails all reserve, are you tabled then?

Or

If one non-deepstrike team starts in turn 1 and having a deepstriking team against him, makes his team non-shooting in his turn 1, is that allowed? Can the opposite team start everything in reserve?

Thanks

I refer you to the HH rulebook, p. 145, Sudden Death Victory: "If, at the end of any game turn, one player has no models left on the battlefield, their opponent automatically wins. Units occupying a building or embarked on a vehicle still count as being on the battlefield, but units that are in Reserve (including Ongoing Reserve) do not."

You can start everything in Reserves, but you'll probably want some Drop Pods (the only way to arrive from Reserves on turn 1) or you'll lose on turn one.

Seems like a reasonable answer Thanks!

Worth noting that a Game Turn and a Player Turn are very different things.

If I were to keep everything in Reserve, but choose to take the second turn, then my opponent effectively 'wastes' their first turn. They have nothing to shoot at and can only make their Movements.
I would then Deep Strike everything in my First Turn and the game goes from there.
The 'instant lose' clause applies to Game Turns, so as long as I have something on the board at the end of Turn 1, regardless of who's Turn 1 that might be, I am safe and sound.

What it does *not* allow you to do is something like army-wide Outflank. In this instance, I would end my Turn 1 with nothing on the board and automatically lose.
If I were to attempt the same with Drop Pods, half of them come in on Turn 1 and so I am safe.

I belive this is a notable difference to 40k 7E, which banned this practice and said that it triggers at the end of a Player turn.

Note that this is potentially extremely powerful and can cause your opponent to cram an entire game plan into 4 Turns, while you still have all 5 *and* get the last turn to grab objectives.

Mozzamanx wrote:
...Note that this is potentially extremely powerful and can cause your opponent to cram an entire game plan into 4 Turns, while you still have all 5 *and* get the last turn to grab objectives.

In practice null-deploy lists are balanced somewhat by the lack of durability and firepower on the stuff you're dropping. You don't have any armour heavier than a Dreadnaught, most of your guns are going to be infantry special weapons or pistols, and the amount of points you need to dump into pods can get pretty extreme, especially if you want to take 20-man squads and need a 235pt Kharybdiss to do it.

Drop Assault Vanguard and Day of Revelation (the BA-specific variant) do get around this some by allowing your Assault Squads to drop turn one rather than requiring pods, but they don't have Inertial Guidance to stop mishaps, still can't charge out of Deep Strike, and don't carry much in the way of shooting power, so in practice while the enemy's turn one is wasted yours kind of is too.

Addendum: Null-deploy lists outside the Legions are technically possible (use Terrax assault drills to bring something on turn one so you don't lose before you start rolling for Reserves) but they're so wildly unreliable I don't expect anyone ever bothers with it.

"Drop Assault Vanguard and Day of Revelation (the BA-specific variant) do get around this some by allowing your Assault Squads to drop turn one rather than requiring pods, but they don't have Inertial Guidance to stop mishaps, still can't charge out of Deep Strike, and don't carry much in the way of shooting power, so in practice while the enemy's turn one is wasted yours kind of is too."

Good that you mention this, but not having to charge after a deep strike isnt that bad, if you get a sweet spot with deep strike you can have a shoot phase first and then charge afterwards, and if the assault marines have jump pack it's very mobile.

- We have some trouble playing on a small map/board aswell, so by that it already feels like he's too close, since it,s deepstrike - walk - shoot - charge. And when it's 20man blobs with centurion or w/e with blade of predition etc, it hurts with shooting and when he charges. So if i run 10man tac squads theire pretty much dead after turn 1. Wild...

The DAV (Drop Assault Vanguard) lists usually wants to drop close because enemy models within 12" of any Vanguard (all the legion assault squads that deep strike 1st turn form the Vanguard) can only fire Snap Shots against the Vanguard units.