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Tried to prime my GUO with this grey can spray, clogged up all details ( even though it was a light coating ) was wet as hell, luckily i put it straight under a tap and most of the paint came off ( which was shocking, i thought theres no way it would come off, but it came off very easily ). This is the only type of spray paint in the crafts shop, so im going to assume this paint is for painting canvasas or some thing, but yeah what a scary experience.. Just thought id tell this story so others are aware that craft shop spray paints that look like they are the correct paint are possibly the completely wrong type of paint.

you get what you paid for, I always use GW or Army Builder black primer. Like paint, you're paying for the breakdown size of fine and consistent pigmentation through hrs if not days or weeks on the ball mill.

if you're taking chances, always try on spare bits or frame first. also follow the direction to a T on the can. usually in a mild climate, non windy, about a foot away, quick sprays after several minutes of shaking the can vigorously.

I generally just grab rattle cans from the local hardware store. They're relatively cheap and I've never had an issue with them.

The last time I used one of the more expensive styles (Army Painter white) it pretty much ruined the models. Horrible, dusty, chunky coverage that powdered off if rubbed but wouldn't come off entirely even with stripping. Maybe it was just a bad batch, but it was annoying enough that I've never gone back.

 Trimarius wrote:
I generally just grab rattle cans from the local hardware store. They're relatively cheap and I've never had an issue with them.

The last time I used one of the more expensive styles (Army Painter white) it pretty much ruined the models. Horrible, dusty, chunky coverage that powdered off if rubbed but wouldn't come off entirely even with stripping. Maybe it was just a bad batch, but it was annoying enough that I've never gone back.

Hey. I just got some from the hard ware store, very cheap like 6 dollars compared to 30 dollars GW. BUT it says it has acetone in it on the back, that's not good is it?

It sounds very much like you had the can too close to the mini.

The can should give an approx. distance to spray from. Follow it.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
It sounds very much like you had the can too close to the mini.

The can should give an approx. distance to spray from. Follow it.

Really? im sure it was appropriate distance, but should it have been able to just come off the model like that after putting it in water?, because when i used chaos black spray, that set like instantly, but man was i glad it came off easy. I think it was just some sort of watery type of spray -.-.

p.s I should have checked the back of my old can to see acetone is common and fine, so disregard that please


Thanks.

Consider this.

You are already paying a lot of money for minis.
I dont know what your objective is. But if its to get good at painting and you want your army to look good, then why skimp out on the basics? Im not sying you have to buy all citadel uber expensive gizmos etc. But as mentioned, you get what you pay for..

Yes a lot of people claim they use hardware store paint. But that does not mean the paint your hardware store sells is going to be the same as theirs. Also you dont know if they care about painting. Maybe they just prime with cheap paint and then dip the heads and feet into paint so they can play tournaments.

Im not sold on it.... I use tamiya/Citadel Gw spray cans.
I would also happily use army painter or velljo probably. These companies are in the busines of sellling paints for painting minatures so I can expect quality.

If i was going to be using the primer as a base i would be more inclined to get citadel, but since i just want a grey undercoat, i couldn't justify spending so much more just for that if theres basicly no difference in "fineness" and there all similar in that aspect.


Any way stuff it, your right ill just get some thing from GW.

Or army painter. Why pay GW price hike? Army painter sprays are pretty darn good.

Though sounds like flawed bottle in the first case or not shaking enough or spraying too close.

saying that GW are better because they are expensive is just a fallacy. GW primers aren't actually primers..they're just spray paint. I've used automotive and hardware primers ever since I started painting.
no one has even asked if the can was shook throughly before use?
also, what was the ambient temperature like, could humidity have affected the paint?

Generally spray paints should cover a plastic model quite well regardless of their main use, apart from some I've seen that are designed for paper or canvases.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just reread. is your paint definitely a primer? because if its just a spray paint, then the problem is you need a layer of proper primer down first, which will allow subsequent layers of paint to grip.

Too watery sounds like a temperature problem. And/Or the can being too close to the model.



I've recently switched over to Rustoleum primers and I think they're fantastic. Get them from the Bunnings (Do Kiwi's have Bunnings?) for I think $12 a pop. I'd highly recommend them.

I use army painter colour primers, out of the 4 I have the red is a bit hit and miss, it could be a bad batch as it’s very thick and the dust from the over spray is dry as in if you collected it you could use it as a weathering powder and the blue one has run out of propellant for some reason.

I also have humbrol acrylic spray which is a fine spray although is a semi gloss finish, the wash over fixes that

Automotive primers are good I have an old can of plastic primer which will be used next

 Rybrook wrote:
I use army painter colour primers, out of the 4 I have the red is a bit hit and miss, it could be a bad batch as it’s very thick and the dust from the over spray is dry as in if you collected it you could use it as a weathering powder and the blue one has run out of propellant for some reason.

Dragon Red? I found that went on very thick if you weren't really careful...

Pure red for me

I have always used grey or white auto-primers to basecoat my models.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
saying that GW are better because they are expensive is just a fallacy. GW primers aren't actually primers..they're just spray paint. I've used automotive and hardware primers ever since I started painting.
no one has even asked if the can was shook throughly before use?
also, what was the ambient temperature like, could humidity have affected the paint?

Generally spray paints should cover a plastic model quite well regardless of their main use, apart from some I've seen that are designed for paper or canvases.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just reread. is your paint definitely a primer? because if its just a spray paint, then the problem is you need a layer of proper primer down first, which will allow subsequent layers of paint to grip.

So if i understand right, most spray paints that don't say primer, act like a primer....but ones that say primer actually are primers...and i suppose the one that say primers are better primers then ones that dont say primer lol? im confused.


Thanks.

for your initial coat, you want a primer, which will be specifically labelled on the product.

Now, a non primer spray paint should, in most cases still cover your model, but the adhesion most likely wont be great and will easily scrape off.

Ideally you want a primer (one labeled as such) to cover the bare metal/plastic before anything else goes down. Normal spray paint will work in a pinch, but it's not as robust and further layers of paint don't stick quite as well to it, so your paint can rub off more readily (on corners and the like, it's not going to peel off a flat surface unless something else went horribly wrong).

Granted, I know plenty of people who just base with the cheap cans from walmart and it works out fine. They get the odd bit of wear, but unless you're really rough with plastic models the paint doesn't chip easily. Metals are much worse about it, but they've been mostly phased out, anyway.

Regardless of brand, you always have a chance of getting a defective spray can. I've gotten bad Army Painter and Citadel cans as well as bad Krylon or Rust-Oleum cans. It's just inherent to the manufacturing process. (But you're more likely to get a replacement or refund from a hardware store than your FLGS.)

When you're starting to prime something, you should always do a couple test passes on a sprue or scrap cardboard to make sure the can is spraying well. It should be obvious immediately if you're getting a bad paint mixture or a splattered/powdery spray texture.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
for your initial coat, you want a primer, which will be specifically labelled on the product.

Now, a non primer spray paint should, in most cases still cover your model, but the adhesion most likely wont be great and will easily scrape off.

But what about GW spray, that doesn't say primer, but it is a actual primer?. Why dont they put primer on the front?


Any way thanks heaps everyone.

Because they are just spray paint. Expensive spray paint. I believe they do make primers but I don't see the point in paying out of my ass for primer when automotive/hardware primer works just as well/better and is half the price.

 Stormatious wrote:
This is the only type of spray paint in the crafts shop,

Dunno if you have these over there in kangaroo land but here in the states and in California we have these montana spraypaints at the craft store.

they are waterbased acrylic spray paints which confuse the balls out of me.

i think they are meant to go on canvas. it could work similarly to airbrushing so i think over primer like white could work out well with some tweaking.

what spray paint did you use?

 Stormatious wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
for your initial coat, you want a primer, which will be specifically labelled on the product.

Now, a non primer spray paint should, in most cases still cover your model, but the adhesion most likely wont be great and will easily scrape off.

But what about GW spray, that doesn't say primer, but it is a actual primer?. Why dont they put primer on the front?


Any way thanks heaps everyone.

GW sprays aren't primers. Their black and white used to be, a very long time ago, and they were overpriced rubbish. I couldn't speak for the quality of their current range of sprays, but they're sold as 'Model Paint', not primers, which means they're just regular spraypaint.

That being said, from my experience an actual primer isn't really required for non-metal models, and even with metals you can get away without it unless you're handling the models roughly.


These days, I use a mix of Army Painter sprays and Rustoleum primers, depending on the colour I'm after.

 insaniak wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
for your initial coat, you want a primer, which will be specifically labelled on the product.

Now, a non primer spray paint should, in most cases still cover your model, but the adhesion most likely wont be great and will easily scrape off.

But what about GW spray, that doesn't say primer, but it is a actual primer?. Why dont they put primer on the front?


Any way thanks heaps everyone.

GW sprays aren't primers. Their black and white used to be, a very long time ago, and they were overpriced rubbish. I couldn't speak for the quality of their current range of sprays, but they're sold as 'Model Paint', not primers, which means they're just regular spraypaint.

That being said, from my experience an actual primer isn't really required for non-metal models, and even with metals you can get away without it unless you're handling the models roughly.


These days, I use a mix of Army Painter sprays and Rustoleum primers, depending on the colour I'm after.

Ok, im am pretty confused to be honest. So Gw primers are not primers, but act like a primer like almost all can sprays do. But some people are saying to get one that says specificly that it is a primer, but technically this is not true since they all pretty much act the same in regards to plastic. So if i understand right...If it says primer...it is a better primer then one that doesn't say primer looooll, i am so confused. Its no big deal i am just going to get citadel any way after this discussion since i used that in the past, but would be nice to know the hard core facts to what is really the best "primer" or what ever lol.

Any way to be safe and based on this conversaton, ill continue to use citadel like i have in the past, but if some one was able to explain truley why buying citadel is a waste of money when others work just as well ( automotive for e.g ) that would be cool for future endeavors .

Thank you very much everyone.

Yeah GW sprays are not primers but functionally serve the same purpose (mostly), why Citadel is a waste of money (its not a waste as such as they are decent spray paints) is because they are more expensive. You get 400ml of Citadel Spray for $30, Army Painter coloured primers are $20-25 for 400ml.

You've just answered your own question. Haha.

 ingtaer wrote:
Yeah GW sprays are not primers but functionally serve the same purpose (mostly), why Citadel is a waste of money (its not a waste as such as they are decent spray paints) is because they are more expensive. You get 400ml of Citadel Spray for $30, Army Painter coloured primers are $20-25 for 400ml.

Thank you very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
You've just answered your own question. Haha.

Oh awesome!

Thanks all, i get it now.

Take care.

 Stormatious wrote:
. But some people are saying to get one that says specificly that it is a primer, but technically this is not true since they all pretty much act the same in regards to plastic.

Something you will find in this hobby is that there are a lot of different opinions on various subjects, generally just based on personal experience. Some people swear that primers are required, some are happy with regular sprays, some are happy skipping the spray altogether and undercoating from a pot. Likewise, some will swear by certain brands of paint, and others will hate those same brands with a passion. And varnish... ooh,. there's a kettle of worms.

A large part of the learning curve with this hobby is just trying different stuff and figuring out what works for you personally.



This, however, is going to be generally true, so far as it goes:

If it says primer...it is a better primer then one that doesn't say primer

...for the most part. Regardless of whether or not you think a primer is actually necessary, a primer will generally adhere better than an equivalent quality regular spray paint.

It's worth pointing out though that some primers also have a slightly rough texture, which is designed to help give the next coat of paint something to stick to, and this can affect your finish.

 insaniak wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
. But some people are saying to get one that says specificly that it is a primer, but technically this is not true since they all pretty much act the same in regards to plastic.

Something you will find in this hobby is that there are a lot of different opinions on various subjects, generally just based on personal experience. Some people swear that primers are required, some are happy with regular sprays, some are happy skipping the spray altogether and undercoating from a pot. Likewise, some will swear by certain brands of paint, and others will hate those same brands with a passion. And varnish... ooh,. there's a kettle of worms.

A large part of the learning curve with this hobby is just trying different stuff and figuring out what works for you personally.



This, however, is going to be generally true, so far as it goes:

If it says primer...it is a better primer then one that doesn't say primer

...for the most part. Regardless of whether or not you think a primer is actually necessary, a primer will generally adhere better than an equivalent quality regular spray paint.

It's worth pointing out though that some primers also have a slightly rough texture, which is designed to help give the next coat of paint something to stick to, and this can affect your finish.

Alright, thank you and everyone else for your insight and knowledge that has helped me to understand this subject. I now understand completely.

Cheers.

Just out of interest, how have you been undercoating your other minis?