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Im a White Scars guy (with a full 2k plus of bikers). I know I am late to the party, but I just tried to run my army with the Company Ancient on bike, and imagine my surprise to realize his banner doesn't help bikers...is this an oversight? or does it bode ill for bikers in general?

White scars got no love and even their named guy is a joke (the White Scars chapter master NOT on a bike? Nope, not using...)

I've always known the Judge Dread bikers are cool connection. I fear that is gone because...you know, Judge Dread is gone from popular mindset (beyond a really bad movie and an okay movie). So, thoughts, are bikers on the extinction list?

Will primaris get bikes (I happen to completely believe regular marines are going...)

With beta bolters bikes have been in a pretty good position.

I'm not too confident on the future of Bikers, but it depends if Primaris marines get bikers or not. If they get bikes, Bikes will get benefits when those models release. if not, they'll get written out of existence. Whether or not they get bikes is another matter - its a complete "maybe."

For the record, the named White Scar (Korsarro Khan) is Captain of the 3rd Company, not the CM. And he USED to come on a bike called MoonDrakken, and can still be used as such with Index Imperium 1, but he has no biker model specifically, so they wrote those rules out of existence in line with their policies, which state No Rules = No Models = No Rules.

To get rid of bikers something drastic would have to happen to Dark Angels that invalidated the entire Ravenwing. Dont see it happening.

My best guess is GW will trample over it's own existing fluff and give primaris jet bikes because the IOM is suddenly progressive and able to just pull lost tech out of it's ass due to Cawl. Existing bikes will likely quietly be squatted

Daedalus: I've played bikers a lot, and agree. The beta bolter rule gives them a good amount of shooting and they always have speed. I find them useful, I just wish I had a CC option beyond the mega overpriced vets from the index.
Deadshot: I know the Khan and Moondragon and have the mini about. It was really sad to not see him get rules in the update, because the index ones are really boring (besides the cost issues). I know, I'm an older modeler first gamer second, so it is really disheartening to see the no model/no rules thing when bodging isn't hard at all.
Bullyboy: You're point makes me feel better. GW may not have a white Scars proponent (fluff or power gamer wise) on the staff right now, but Dark Angels do seem to be one of the armies they support because of its popularity. They will probably get bikers (please, please do NOT go to jetbikes for all...)

I really hope someone joins GW soon who has a thing for White Scars, since for the smaller armies, having a fan on the design staff decides what codex get's love, or OP, etc. I've played GW far too long to not know this...refer back to any codex Tuomas worked on way back...

edwardmyst wrote:

Deadshot: I know the Khan and Moondragon and have the mini about. It was really sad to not see him get rules in the update, because the index ones are really boring (besides the cost issues). I know, I'm an older modeler first gamer second, so it is really disheartening to see the no model/no rules thing when bodging isn't hard at all.

Its a legal issue, unfortunately, so dont expect it to change anytime soon. Or ever. The Chapterhouse Lawsuit ruled that a model of something can't infringe on the copyright of an image or idea. So basically, while GW may make an image, be it art or photos, or right a story about, say, Korsarro on his bike, "Space Mongolian Lightning Bolt Style with sword on motorcycle" made by random mook 3rd party website isn't an infringement because there is no model to infringe on.

So GW changed their policy so that No Rules = No model, because someone else could make models to fit those rules before GW get around to it.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My best guess is GW will trample over it's own existing fluff and give primaris jet bikes because the IOM is suddenly progressive and able to just pull lost tech out of it's ass due to Cawl.

SM had jet cycles in RT...

edwardmyst wrote:


White scars got no love and even their named guy is a joke (the White Scars chapter master NOT on a bike? Nope, not using...)

Kor'Sarro Khan isn't the WS CM. Jubal Khan is. Besides, he still has the option to take a bike does he not?

 Grimtuff wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:


White scars got no love and even their named guy is a joke (the White Scars chapter master NOT on a bike? Nope, not using...)

Kor'Sarro Khan isn't the WS CM. Jubal Khan is. Besides, he still has the option to take a bike does he not?

He lost the option in the 8th edition codex, likely because no bike-mounted model exists for him. He can be taken with a bike through the Index Astartes, but its quiet expensive for what it is, and the Indexes are likely going to be rendered non-usable once each codex is renewed. Plus, that big ole book, where most is obsolete and the rest is destined to follow, for one little biker? Absurd.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:


White scars got no love and even their named guy is a joke (the White Scars chapter master NOT on a bike? Nope, not using...)

Kor'Sarro Khan isn't the WS CM. Jubal Khan is. Besides, he still has the option to take a bike does he not?

He lost the option in the 8th edition codex, likely because no bike-mounted model exists for him. He can be taken with a bike through the Index Astartes, but its quiet expensive for what it is, and the Indexes are likely going to be rendered non-usable once each codex is renewed. Plus, that big ole book, where most is obsolete and the rest is destined to follow, for one little biker? Absurd.

Yet SM Biker captains sit there in the codex despite it being literally the exact same situation...

No model, no rules, no consistency apparently.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My best guess is GW will trample over it's own existing fluff and give primaris jet bikes because the IOM is suddenly progressive and able to just pull lost tech out of it's ass due to Cawl. Existing bikes will likely quietly be squatted

I definitely hope that this is what happens!

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:


White scars got no love and even their named guy is a joke (the White Scars chapter master NOT on a bike? Nope, not using...)

Kor'Sarro Khan isn't the WS CM. Jubal Khan is. Besides, he still has the option to take a bike does he not?

He lost the option in the 8th edition codex, likely because no bike-mounted model exists for him. He can be taken with a bike through the Index Astartes, but its quiet expensive for what it is, and the Indexes are likely going to be rendered non-usable once each codex is renewed. Plus, that big ole book, where most is obsolete and the rest is destined to follow, for one little biker? Absurd.

Yet SM Biker captains sit there in the codex despite it being literally the exact same situation...

No model, no rules, no consistency apparently.

Well there is the White Scars Commander,, who despite having a different name, is close enough to cover that role.

 Deadshot wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:

Deadshot: I know the Khan and Moondragon and have the mini about. It was really sad to not see him get rules in the update, because the index ones are really boring (besides the cost issues). I know, I'm an older modeler first gamer second, so it is really disheartening to see the no model/no rules thing when bodging isn't hard at all.

Its a legal issue, unfortunately, so dont expect it to change anytime soon. Or ever. The Chapterhouse Lawsuit ruled that a model of something can't infringe on the copyright of an image or idea. So basically, while GW may make an image, be it art or photos, or right a story about, say, Korsarro on his bike, "Space Mongolian Lightning Bolt Style with sword on motorcycle" made by random mook 3rd party website isn't an infringement because there is no model to infringe on.

So GW changed their policy so that No Rules = No model, because someone else could make models to fit those rules before GW get around to it.

So if one really wanted to they could effectively steer GW into NOT making certain types of new units by beating them to market with a model?

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My best guess is GW will trample over it's own existing fluff and give primaris jet bikes because the IOM is suddenly progressive and able to just pull lost tech out of it's ass due to Cawl.

I take you slept through Custodes release?

ccs wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:

Deadshot: I know the Khan and Moondragon and have the mini about. It was really sad to not see him get rules in the update, because the index ones are really boring (besides the cost issues). I know, I'm an older modeler first gamer second, so it is really disheartening to see the no model/no rules thing when bodging isn't hard at all.

Its a legal issue, unfortunately, so dont expect it to change anytime soon. Or ever. The Chapterhouse Lawsuit ruled that a model of something can't infringe on the copyright of an image or idea. So basically, while GW may make an image, be it art or photos, or right a story about, say, Korsarro on his bike, "Space Mongolian Lightning Bolt Style with sword on motorcycle" made by random mook 3rd party website isn't an infringement because there is no model to infringe on.

So GW changed their policy so that No Rules = No model, because someone else could make models to fit those rules before GW get around to it.

So if one really wanted to they could effectively steer GW into NOT making certain types of new units by beating them to market with a model?

Theoretically but you'd need to be finding a VERY specific niche unit and give it a patent. GW still own the IP, so they would still be fine to make a Aeldari Wraith-Biker even if someone else has already made a "Space Elf Soul-Construct Hover-Biker" that looks remarkably similar to a wraithguard on a jetbike, plus few who would have the funds and sheer brass balls to challenge GW over their own IP.

GW just repackaged 20+ year old CSM bikers for the humble price of $45 for 3. No one seems to care.

 Irbis wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My best guess is GW will trample over it's own existing fluff and give primaris jet bikes because the IOM is suddenly progressive and able to just pull lost tech out of it's ass due to Cawl.

I take you slept through Custodes release?

I didn't. I'd prefer if the hadn't given them bikes like that but the custodes have a few dozen left over is more palpable than grav tech suddenly being handed out like candy. One thing the setting is losing is that humanity is on a down slide, the IOM isn't progressing and the HH cost humanity so much on a tech and cultural level. More and more the more recent fluff has 40k becoming more and more like a generic sci fi setting.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

I didn't. I'd prefer if the hadn't given them bikes like that but the custodes have a few dozen left over is more palpable than grav tech suddenly being handed out like candy. One thing the setting is losing is that humanity is on a down slide, the IOM isn't progressing and the HH cost humanity so much on a tech and cultural level. More and more the more recent fluff has 40k becoming more and more like a generic sci fi setting.

If Space Marines get jetbikes, that's just them returning to their roots; they used to have them. I agree with you on the general level, that it is travesty that we are losing the 'Imperium is in decline' narrative, but that is really not due some pieces of equipment. A loyalist Primarch returning already pretty much ruined the narrative on that front. And I really don't feel that the model designers should be beholden to some ancient piece of fluff that says jetbikes are no more. That is just trivial detail that can be retconned if a cool model requires it.

 Bloviator wrote:
GW just repackaged 20+ year old CSM bikers for the humble price of $45 for 3. No one seems to care.

I'd be more surprised if people actually still bought bikers in the first place.

I suspect we'll get primaris bikes of some sort down the line (although I'm of the opinion Inceptors occupy the niche bikes tradtionally do in a SM army) Bikes are a pretty popular option.

I foresee bikes coming at some point. But what would they have? Twin bolt rifles and speed? No thanks I have enough S4 shots in my list.

I also expect jetbikes at some point, problem is that they will likely have to do some sort of ravenwing variant too, we will likely see the same thing for primaris terminators at some point as well.

 Formosa wrote:
I also expect jetbikes at some point, problem is that they will likely have to do some sort of ravenwing variant too, we will likely see the same thing for primaris terminators at some point as well.

'Ravenwing variant' can just be painting them black. And yes, I hope we get Primaris Terminators too. The Aggressors are not terminatory enough.