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Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





What exactly are Titans used for?

I read in Vigilus Ablaze that titans were ill suited to fight in the dense city hab blocksthere. But you can't always choose to have an enemy that is so obliging it would fight you on the nice flat ground of your own choosing. It seems to me that Titans seem to function as a very limited long range bombardment role and that's about it. Many stories I have read about titans in action have been on nice flat desert or barren land.

They aren't used in space boarding actions. They can't be used in cities.They are not flyers. Seriously, it just seems to me that their role is so limited I wonder why they even exist in the first place. Why spend so much resources building such massive titans who end up being only able to operate in rather limited combat theaters of wars.

   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





Different titans are better for different terrains. Some of them are actually super good in urban environments, able to take out entire buildings full of defenders and more maneuverable than tanks/etc that would be stuck in the streets.

Also titans are used in boarding actions. In path of the eldar the imperium sends tons of titans into a craftworld, and they do a ton of damage (while also being more vulnerable than usual, but that's to be expected).
   
Made in mx
Rampaging Carnifex



Mexico

Because Titans are the masters of their niche.

Yes they have a lot of drawbacks, but you don't want to be stuck in an open field facing an enemy titan without one yourself.

   
Made in nz
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine



New Zealand

I imagine with their sensors they see better than most vehicles and most manhandled weapons are insufficient to get through the Titans defences.

In the novel Titanicus the titans had good sensors. With those sensors they had a clear advantage in the built up area. I envision that they would be an advantage in forested areas as well.

Legs I would imagine are also extremely useful on soft ground. In mud flats, where you sink up to knees, they are fairly impassable to vehicles, but we can struggle through. There is nothing like raising up a leg; moving it forward; and then lowering it; compared to a wheel/track spinning and just kicking up mud.

With their combination of firepower; armour and shields; and mobility; and sensors; they would likely have an advantage in urban, suburban; rural; forested; desert; and swamp areas.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Newcastle

I agree with the OP. Dense forest or jungle would be impassable. Particularly mountainous terrain would be no good. Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets

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Made in au
Stalwart Tribune





 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I agree with the OP. Dense forest or jungle would be impassable. Particularly mountainous terrain would be no good. Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets

I agree with them not being very good in mountains, but titans could probably just walk through or over the forest.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Ill-suited for dense habblocks does not necessarily mean poor maneuverability.

Remember both sides with Titans are trying to take/keep the planet. Destroying the habblocks wholesale with titan battles is not a very good idea with the end-goal in mind.

For Chaos, the residents would be better corrupted.

For the Imperium, you want them alive and not turning to Chaos in dissidence.

If Chaos moves their titans up to the habblocks, the Imperium has ti move theirs to the other end and fight with the habblocks between them/within the habblocks; this leaves too much collateral damage.

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MN

Plus, most planets that are not gas giants in the Imperium ARE barren rocks with crater scarred surfaces. Look at Mercury, Mars, Pluto etc. in our own solar system. That doesn't even get to the various moons!

If you put a titan on the ground, the enemy can not come out and face it. Therefore, they have to hole up in their fortresses and bunkers. Immobile enemies are nearly defeated enemies.

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The Great State of Texas

we should also remember, titans are rare. They are more rare than superheavies, which themselves are quite rare. Your average battle is AFVs, troops, artillery, and air support, just like now.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Made in nz
Cog in the Machine




New Zealand

 kastelen wrote:
 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I agree with the OP. Dense forest or jungle would be impassable. Particularly mountainous terrain would be no good. Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets

I agree with them not being very good in mountains, but titans could probably just walk through or over the forest.


Jungle and Forrest no worries.
Being in heavy industry myself, and seeing a D9 dozer (Weighing 48,990kg) not even blinking when strolling straight through mature pine Forrest, or buildings (Both concrete and steel)
A titan would be 3-4 times that weight and probably 10 times the horsepower would not even break stride walking through an average Forrest or Jungle.

and If one were thinking that a titan might "Slip" or "Trip" this would not happen either, because at a certain weight these machines are not really traversing what we see as the ground, they are actually driving of the clay underneath. - The only exception to this would be a walking/traversing on a Rock layer.

so Jungle, Forrest, Buildings it does not matter to a Titan. only some of the smaller knights would have issue with this.

Building towards 1000pts
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I doubt most terrain would be much of a problem for a titan. If you can't walk across it blast it to hell and boom nice flat wasteland to walk across.

Much like most of 40k, don't think about it to much. Bi pedal tanks as a whole don't make much sense and one the size of a building run on rule of cool.
   
Made in au
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





Well, go to the Ork versions. Specifically the larger Gargants which insanly large track systems that allow them to pack more and more guns, more sheilds and more armor than their imperial counterparts. Essentially they are massive bastions of orky killiness on the move.

Outside of that, yes, imperial titans would be hilariously impractical in most scenarios. Rough terrain or slopes would give them issues and the difficulty to deploy and redeploy them sort of stick them into the role of intimidation and application of firepower onto fortifications.

In most situations the spacecraft you see in 40K would perform the same role of bombardment rather well if not better.
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

Think of War of the Worlds and the Martian robots on the river.

Titans don't need bridges. They can cross to either side as needed to combat the enemy who need a bridge. Such flanking attacks would harass an enemy to no end.

The thing about cities are they normally have open lands around them. If you want to get to the city to fight...you have to get past the titans patrolling those zones...hard to take a city if you cannot approach it.

 koooaei wrote:
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There's also scenarios where even if the Imperium wants to preserve a city, they know they're gonna have to mess it up to protect it. Stuff like Helsreach where they had imperators wandering the streets fighting Gargants, or in Betrayer where they had reavers fighting warhounds without any visibility in a city covered in smoke and ash.

Remember, this is the same universe where ground supremacy > air supremacy because of the usefulness of void shields and anti-air. It's why Horus had to take Beta-Garmon in order to attack Terra, they couldn't just go past it since they needed to warp in in-system which would leave them vulnerable to attacks launched from the planet. Solution? Titans! Thousands of them!
   
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Fixture of Dakka




UK

Remember this is the same Imperium which will wipe out all life on a planet then move in to use it again.

The Imperium doesn't really care much for local flora and fauna. Look at how many worlds are habited by vast hive cities. Huge towering structures that are almost akin to a spaceship in how they are self contained. Pumping out pollutants and the like. Many a world is likely so toxic that the air has already rendered many of the local plants to ruin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/05 09:30:57


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Horrific Howling Banshee




Titans - For when something absolutely, positively without exception needs to die.

Also quite often used as literal spearheads on enemy fortifications and quite often used as moral boosters. Nothing gets the common soldier motivated like a walking mountain of imperial faith that's on THEIR side.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The real reason is someone thought Tians looked cool back in the dim and distant past, so now they have to justify their existence. As a weapon of war their pretty terrible. They have a ridiculously large profile, especially given the relatively small number of weapons one of them carries, legs are one of the worst ways to move around and make you very vulnerable to attack and susceptible to malfunction. Deployment and battlefield logistics are extremely problematic too.

So try not to think about the logic of Titans too much. They look cool and you can write cool stories about them, and that's pretty much all you need to know.
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




Slipspace wrote:They look cool and you can write cool stories about them, and that's pretty much all you need to know.


Aye, the cool factor is probably even more important than the (extremely destructive) weapons they can carry. They're not just another fighting unit, they're a symbol of Imperial might for all who see them. Like deploying a battleship to "fight" Somali pirates - not cost-efficient or very effective from a mlitary standpoint but an incredible show of power. Enemies are demoralized by the huge guns, void shields and armor, friendlies are boosted by the mere sight.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Eldenfirefly wrote:
What exactly are Titans used for?

What exactly are chainsword for? They suck as a weapon. A good non-chain sword will be better, unless you want to cut thinks that are standing still (which isn't what happens in combat).
They are used for looking cool. Like TItans.

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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
What exactly are Titans used for?

What exactly are chainsword for? They suck as a weapon. A good non-chain sword will be better, unless you want to cut thinks that are standing still (which isn't what happens in combat).
They are used for looking cool. Like TItans.


I dunno chainsaws tend to go through flesh like - well - a hot knife through melted butter! Swap those teeth made for wood for thick beefy ones for metal and toughened flesh and you've got something that won't glance off the target, but bite and eat into it! Back it up with some supermuscle and a power-exo-suit!

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Made in nl
Tail Gunner




for me at least, the reason why Titans or any other kind of huge bipedal walker never made sense to me is their extreme vulnerability to aerial attack. Though the 40k universe is hardly an outlier in this regard, the amount of battles in that could have decided by airpower is staggering. Most frustating is that from the little snippets we get we now that almost every factions in the 40k universe does possess formidable aeral warfare capabilities.
   
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Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Bodt

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:
 kastelen wrote:
 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I agree with the OP. Dense forest or jungle would be impassable. Particularly mountainous terrain would be no good. Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets

I agree with them not being very good in mountains, but titans could probably just walk through or over the forest.


Jungle and Forrest no worries.
Being in heavy industry myself, and seeing a D9 dozer (Weighing 48,990kg) not even blinking when strolling straight through mature pine Forrest, or buildings (Both concrete and steel)
A titan would be 3-4 times that weight and probably 10 times the horsepower would not even break stride walking through an average Forrest or Jungle.

and If one were thinking that a titan might "Slip" or "Trip" this would not happen either, because at a certain weight these machines are not really traversing what we see as the ground, they are actually driving of the clay underneath. - The only exception to this would be a walking/traversing on a Rock layer.

so Jungle, Forrest, Buildings it does not matter to a Titan. only some of the smaller knights would have issue with this.


Indeed. I'm a plant driver, Q'd on JCB light wheelies for work, which would probably be considered fairly small in plant terms, and even that can go through large trees fairly easily.

D9s are badass. I built a scale IDF version last year, and while looking through subject material for reference I saw and read accounts of them taking IED blasts of almost half a ton of HE like it was nothing. I'd love to have a go in one.
I believe the california FD used them to create emergency firebreaks in forests also

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Eldenfirefly wrote:
I wonder why they even exist in the first place.


Because space Jesus commands it. From any realistic point of view an equal investment in tanks will slaughter anyone foolish enough to waste resources on a vehicle with massive ground pressure and stability issues, zero ability to hide out of LOS, paper-thin armor, and extremely weak guns for its size. But in 40k space Jesus commands it, and "rule of cool" says that titans will appear on the battlefield. Just accept that titans are cool and don't try to think about it too much.

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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Beersarius Drawl wrote:
 kastelen wrote:
 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I agree with the OP. Dense forest or jungle would be impassable. Particularly mountainous terrain would be no good. Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets

I agree with them not being very good in mountains, but titans could probably just walk through or over the forest.


Jungle and Forrest no worries.
Being in heavy industry myself, and seeing a D9 dozer (Weighing 48,990kg) not even blinking when strolling straight through mature pine Forrest, or buildings (Both concrete and steel)
A titan would be 3-4 times that weight and probably 10 times the horsepower would not even break stride walking through an average Forrest or Jungle.

and If one were thinking that a titan might "Slip" or "Trip" this would not happen either, because at a certain weight these machines are not really traversing what we see as the ground, they are actually driving of the clay underneath. - The only exception to this would be a walking/traversing on a Rock layer.

so Jungle, Forrest, Buildings it does not matter to a Titan. only some of the smaller knights would have issue with this.


Indeed. I'm a plant driver, Q'd on JCB light wheelies for work, which would probably be considered fairly small in plant terms, and even that can go through large trees fairly easily.

D9s are badass. I built a scale IDF version last year, and while looking through subject material for reference I saw and read accounts of them taking IED blasts of almost half a ton of HE like it was nothing. I'd love to have a go in one.
I believe the california FD used them to create emergency firebreaks in forests also


Yeah, the CDF & CALFire use all of the huge dozers and excavators available. last year with all the wildfires basically ever heavy construction company was donating the use of their machinery. All I can say is be thankful if you didnt get smoked for 3 weeks straight.

Back on topic.

Nothing like thousands of tons and a blade that's thicker than most tank armour(granted easily defeatable w shaped charge warheads).

Titans are battlefield superiority units, demoralizing to foes, inspiring to friendlies. Now whether they would work in actual reality is definitely up for debate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/05 22:31:20


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Peregrine wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
I wonder why they even exist in the first place.


Because space Jesus commands it. From any realistic point of view an equal investment in tanks will slaughter anyone foolish enough to waste resources on a vehicle with massive ground pressure and stability issues, zero ability to hide out of LOS, paper-thin armor, and extremely weak guns for its size. But in 40k space Jesus commands it, and "rule of cool" says that titans will appear on the battlefield. Just accept that titans are cool and don't try to think about it too much.

Aren't Titans meant to be avatars of the machine god? So in a way they really do exist because space god demands it.

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Made in ru
Implacable Skitarii




Robbert Ambrose wrote:
for me at least, the reason why Titans or any other kind of huge bipedal walker never made sense to me is their extreme vulnerability to aerial attack.


Actually they're not so vulnerable - common flyers maybe dime a dozen cheap compared to Titan but Titan's void-shields and state of art targeting systems make them pretty dangerous prey to hunt - one capable of literally swatting entire squadrons of assault craft while receiving no lasting damage. In terms of firepower and defenses they're in league of their own (and those abilities are well-rounded unlike titanhunter superheavies or Ordinatuses(sp?) ).
Knights OTOH look like fodder for in-universe* proper aerial attack - but most of 'em are still deadly enough and protected enough to kill lone flight of aircraft and survive - if they're not otherwise engaged and given enough warning of course.

* - Where most of accurate weaponry is NOT BVR while nuke equivalents used rarely if ever. In RW killing things like that Titans would still required defense-saturating salvos of current air-launched shipkiller missiles/heavy smart ordnance , preferable with nukes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/06 11:48:57


 
   
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UK

Aren't titans also built and used on worlds which have wildlife of comparable size to titans - such as those worlds that have huge dinosaurs that a certain Eldar subfaction rides into war.

If your cattle is the size of a skyscraper chances are your quadbike just isn't going to cut it when it comes to herding!

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Regular Dakkanaut




 Overread wrote:
Aren't titans also built and used on worlds which have wildlife of comparable size to titans - such as those worlds that have huge dinosaurs that a certain Eldar subfaction rides into war.

If your cattle is the size of a skyscraper chances are your quadbike just isn't going to cut it when it comes to herding!


That's Imperial Knights you're thinking about, Titans are built on Forge Worlds which are barren wastelands more often than not.
   
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Battleship Captain




chyron wrote:
Robbert Ambrose wrote:
for me at least, the reason why Titans or any other kind of huge bipedal walker never made sense to me is their extreme vulnerability to aerial attack.


Actually they're not so vulnerable - common flyers maybe dime a dozen cheap compared to Titan but Titan's void-shields and state of art targeting systems make them pretty dangerous prey to hunt - one capable of literally swatting entire squadrons of assault craft while receiving no lasting damage. In terms of firepower and defenses they're in league of their own (and those abilities are well-rounded unlike titanhunter superheavies or Ordinatuses(sp?) ).
Knights OTOH look like fodder for in-universe* proper aerial attack - but most of 'em are still deadly enough and protected enough to kill lone flight of aircraft and survive - if they're not otherwise engaged and given enough warning of course.

* - Where most of accurate weaponry is NOT BVR while nuke equivalents used rarely if ever. In RW killing things like that Titans would still required defense-saturating salvos of current air-launched shipkiller missiles/heavy smart ordnance , preferable with nukes.


Wierdly from some perspectives the void shields are a big part of it. Void shielding explains why the massive signature and obvious weak points of a titan are less of an issue (you can't shoot the head/knees/whatever without collapsing the shields first, and battle-strength shields can take a literally infinite amount of weaker weapons fire*, avoiding the attrition issue.

Thing is, the titan is/was the smallest thing capable of mounting void shields** - which is why knights have the more pilot-skill intensive ion shield. Yes, there are emplaced shield generators but they're connected to a planetary power network.





* in original Epic: Titan Legions, attacks without a -1 save modifier or better (basically anything short of missile launchers) couldn't collapse void shields, whilst in the adeptus titanicus reboot, void shield saves auto-pass for strength 3 or less (equivalent to the avenger gatling cannon)

** Aside from the new primaris tank because established in-universe rules do not apply to Belisarius Cawl.
   
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There is a nice bit in a Imperial Armour book where they use a pair of Warhounds in open terrain as a unstopable speahead. They outrange the Tau forces and are relatively quick plud well supported by Astartes (Skitarii were not models and seldom talked about)

They are truely devestating until the Tau field a dedicated unit they developed after previously being slaughtered by Titans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/06 21:23:21


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