Switch Theme:

What exactly are Titans used for?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I like that Titans are primarily an expression of religious worship, in that they represent the apotheosis of the Mechanicum's notion of Oneness with the Machine-God. Religious considerations will always trump practical ones, particularly in the context of a religiously motivated war.

The second thing is that they exist in a universe of suspensors, force fields, and so on. Why would they sink into the ground at all if most of their mass is being held up through suspensors and anti-gravity? I like to think of them as being like little space-shields specialized for operations close to the surface of a planet. It's the drop-ships that irk me, although I can see that if they didn't have weaknesses then the question would be why have anything else? Aside from the notion of Kill-Teams of Astartes or Secutarii or what-have-you racing through a Forge Complex trying to prevent the crews from reaching their Titans and stomping them and their invasion force into paste.
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops

Tyran wrote:
Because Titans are the masters of their niche.

Yes they have a lot of drawbacks, but you don't want to be stuck in an open field facing an enemy titan without one yourself.



Unless you are Tau. Then you call in a squadron of AX -0-1 Tiger Sharks and destroy the priceless Titan with a plane made of spare parts from other platforms.

 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Nurglitch wrote:
The second thing is that they exist in a universe of suspensors, force fields, and so on. Why would they sink into the ground at all if most of their mass is being held up through suspensors and anti-gravity?


All of these things can be even more effective when used on a tank instead.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





walkers are generally, in most settings that have them fluffed as being more stable in rough terrain.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 EmpNortonII wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Because Titans are the masters of their niche.

Yes they have a lot of drawbacks, but you don't want to be stuck in an open field facing an enemy titan without one yourself.



Unless you are Tau. Then you call in a squadron of AX -0-1 Tiger Sharks and destroy the priceless Titan with a plane made of spare parts from other platforms.

Not anymore you don't. Now you call in your Titans because flyer squadrons aren't big centrepieces.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Overread wrote:
I dunno chainsaws tend to go through flesh like - well - a hot knife through melted butter!

Yeah, and I could very easily kill someone with my microwave oven. Just let me raise it above my head and go for a quick hit on the head, and just with the weight of that thing, some skull would burst open.
Not a good weapon though.
Chainsaw could definitely kill you but make for terrible weapons.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I dunno chainsaws tend to go through flesh like - well - a hot knife through melted butter!

Yeah, and I could very easily kill someone with my microwave oven. Just let me raise it above my head and go for a quick hit on the head, and just with the weight of that thing, some skull would burst open.
Not a good weapon though.
Chainsaw could definitely kill you but make for terrible weapons.


Agreed. but they look cool.

Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in gb
Gargantuan Great Squiggoth





Not where I should be

Probably been said, but most of the time scale is all out of wack on 40k tabletop anyway.

So actually the titans are not that big. The very small buildings we usually use on the tabletop are puny. Real Manufactorums would be vast, and Hive cities are reported to be beyond our imagination in scale. So a giant robot just aint that big. And as has been pointed out the areas around, the areas around cities can and is often open ground. The biggest titans are reported about 60 metres to maybe 100 metres. The Eiffel Tower is 300 metres tall, so think about it, you could easily have a couple Emperor Titans loafing around the park landscape around Paris, you could fit approx. 500 shoulder to shoulder in Central Park. And that thing is stupid big, so warhound size beasties could probably run around in Central Park quite happily. They would even be able to easily walk down the streets of most cities in our world. So scale is a factor here, people think of titans as building sized, yes they are building sized, but we are talking small buildings here and the Imperium would have huge and vast buildings with boulevards equally as big.




 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

What are they used for?

To separate the credulous from their credits.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




Somerdale, NJ, USA

Vigilus Ablaze specifically stated that due to the massive amounts of tunnels and sewers under the continent-cities that the weight of the titans would collapse the streets and they would sink.

It was just to hazardous for the Titans to enter the cities.

"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."

"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."

- 8k /// - 5k /// - 5k /// - 6k /// - 6k /// - 4k /// - 4k /// Cust - 3k 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Hmm... I don't have the time to calc it, but I wonder what the required bearing pressure for a warhound is compared to a bin lorry

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Ottawa, ON

There is also a psychological factor to think about. As stated earlier, Titans are quite often the avatars of a race's Gods (namely the mechanicum and the Orks). They're big, loud and scary for anyone who has to face one down. Using titans to support a major push would serve multiple roles. Heavy fire support, giving the enemy a more tempting target and, mostly importantly, sapping the enemy's morale while boosting your allies. No one wants to fight a titan, everyone wants one by their side.

Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Peregrine wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
The second thing is that they exist in a universe of suspensors, force fields, and so on. Why would they sink into the ground at all if most of their mass is being held up through suspensors and anti-gravity?


All of these things can be even more effective when used on a tank instead.

Indeed. I like to think that the thing about Titans is not that they're practical, but they're wildly impractical. So there's the achievement of making something so wildly impractical be not only useful but effective is a testament to the Mechanicum's unity with the Machine-God. I mean of course all the technologies used to make them walk around like they're not giant liabilities would work better on other platforms, but that's not the point. The point is to use those technologies in the religiously appropriate way. Using stuff merely because it was effective and convenient is what got humanity into the Dark Age of Technology, and hence into Old Night.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Peregrine wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
The second thing is that they exist in a universe of suspensors, force fields, and so on. Why would they sink into the ground at all if most of their mass is being held up through suspensors and anti-gravity?


All of these things can be even more effective when used on a tank instead.


This is true, but the AM doesn't know how to do that either.

Your view is best expressed in Tau super heavy flyers, Eldar super heavies, or of course Necron supers from EPIPC (nothing say I love you like shooting part of a star at someone).

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







 Flinty wrote:
Hmm... I don't have the time to calc it, but I wonder what the required bearing pressure for a warhound is compared to a bin lorry


Ah-ha. I found it.

Back in the day I did some random rough calcs on bearing pressures required to walk on some earth type surfaces.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/523743.page#5560971

For a war hound, a foot area of about 50sq.m is enough for it.to.walk on silt, which is pretty squishy.

According to wikipedia an abrams also.exerts a ground pressure of about 100kN/square.m, or about the carrying capacity of.silt, which seems reasonable as it's designed to move over soft ground.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure

Apparently Abrams tracks have a contact area of about 13sq.m, so in the same.order of magnitude as a war hound foot.

Allowing for dynamic impact while it runs, etc it.might need a bigger footprint to reduce the pressures sufficiently to match a relatively static HGV or tank. What I'm trying to say is that the hive must have no kind of heavy vehicle driving on any of the roads...

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Shock and Awe.

Yes. The major players all have Titans or rough equivalents. Yet such creations are still somewhat rare. Even Orks don’t always have Gargants - it takes a Waaagh of some size to start producing those.

Drop a couple of Battle Titans on a planet with little by way of an answer to them, and your opponent is pretty much done. They’re unlikely to have enough help materiel to do enough damage to the Titans before they’ve ripped the heart out of your city or stoutest defence. And if they are able to assemble enough materiel to handle Titans? That’s a significant drain on the rest of your forces.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Shock and Awe.

Yes. The major players all have Titans or rough equivalents. Yet such creations are still somewhat rare. Even Orks don’t always have Gargants - it takes a Waaagh of some size to start producing those.

Drop a couple of Battle Titans on a planet with little by way of an answer to them, and your opponent is pretty much done. They’re unlikely to have enough help materiel to do enough damage to the Titans before they’ve ripped the heart out of your city or stoutest defence. And if they are able to assemble enough materiel to handle Titans? That’s a significant drain on the rest of your forces.


Alternatively, a couple of super heavies or bog standard artillery and tank companies. When all you have are earthshakers, everything is just a grid coordinate...

EDIT: thats the real advantage. Eldar and IM/Chaos titans have void shields or holofields and structural strength that allows them to take multiple hits. Efficiency wise they suck, but an opponent able to field them is bringing substantial force projection to the field.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/08 20:11:58


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I agree with the OP. Dense forest or jungle would be impassable. Particularly mountainous terrain would be no good. Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets


Urban enviroment isn't that much of a trouble when you have weapons that can level city blocks and have basically no ammunition worries.

Provided you don't mind leveling entire city the city isn't much of a protection. There won't BE buildings once titans have their way.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Frazzled wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Shock and Awe.

Yes. The major players all have Titans or rough equivalents. Yet such creations are still somewhat rare. Even Orks don’t always have Gargants - it takes a Waaagh of some size to start producing those.

Drop a couple of Battle Titans on a planet with little by way of an answer to them, and your opponent is pretty much done. They’re unlikely to have enough help materiel to do enough damage to the Titans before they’ve ripped the heart out of your city or stoutest defence. And if they are able to assemble enough materiel to handle Titans? That’s a significant drain on the rest of your forces.


Alternatively, a couple of super heavies or bog standard artillery and tank companies. When all you have are earthshakers, everything is just a grid coordinate...

EDIT: thats the real advantage. Eldar and IM/Chaos titans have void shields or holofields and structural strength that allows them to take multiple hits. Efficiency wise they suck, but an opponent able to field them is bringing substantial force projection to the field.


In 2nd edition Epic, a Titan was still dead if the player acted as if they were invulnerable gods of the battlefield and tried just charging them straight towards a conventional enemy force. It didn't take that much concentrated fire either from conventional units either. Dedicated anti-Titan superheavies were not truly required, as it was possible to smother them under sheer number of shots from Earthshakers, lascannons, or the Ork/Eldar equivalents.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I dunno chainsaws tend to go through flesh like - well - a hot knife through melted butter!

Yeah, and I could very easily kill someone with my microwave oven. Just let me raise it above my head and go for a quick hit on the head, and just with the weight of that thing, some skull would burst open.
Not a good weapon though.
Chainsaw could definitely kill you but make for terrible weapons.

Just to point out. . .a sword of any type is likely a better tool for killing than a microwave. A chainsaw is probably a better tool for cutting flesh than a microwave as well.

Probably a chainsword is very useful for fighting Orks in cc, as they're not the most armored of foes, and are noted for requiring extreme wounds to take down. A weaponized chainsaw makes at least some sense.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






I just assume that 40k (along with Gundam, Macross, etc, etc) is a fantastical alternate universe where giant robots actually work.

Anyway, Space Marine legions were used to capture worlds. Titan legions were used to destroy them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/09 09:53:13


 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Earlobe deep in doo doo

Same thing as War Elephants power prestge shock & awe. Which is effectuve on the battlefield. Victory is about who breaks first.

"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
Von Gherens This Rough Magic Lackey, Flint & Freer
Mekagorkalicious -Monkeytroll
2017 Model Count-71
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

I hate to say "a wizard did it", but Titans for orks, chaos and imperium are loci of faith. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest some warp shenanigans make them more effective than they should be.
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

Snake Tortoise wrote: Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets


What's your source on road allowances and city-planning in the grim darkness of the far future?

A Titan being unsuited to a city does not mean it is unsuited to all cities.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,765pts painted (updated 06/05/20)
Волшебная Сказка | Volshebnaya Skazka | A Fairy Tale (updated 29/12/19, ep10 - And All That Could Have Been)
Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

All 'crimes' should be treasured if they bring you pleasure somehow. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Insectum7 wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Overread wrote:
I dunno chainsaws tend to go through flesh like - well - a hot knife through melted butter!

Yeah, and I could very easily kill someone with my microwave oven. Just let me raise it above my head and go for a quick hit on the head, and just with the weight of that thing, some skull would burst open.
Not a good weapon though.
Chainsaw could definitely kill you but make for terrible weapons.

Just to point out. . .a sword of any type is likely a better tool for killing than a microwave. A chainsaw is probably a better tool for cutting flesh than a microwave as well.

Probably a chainsword is very useful for fighting Orks in cc, as they're not the most armored of foes, and are noted for requiring extreme wounds to take down. A weaponized chainsaw makes at least some sense.

They probably work well against rebel forces as well. It's probably scary to watch a giant chainsaw your mate in half.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Snake Tortoise wrote: Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets


What's your source on road allowances and city-planning in the grim darkness of the far future?

A Titan being unsuited to a city does not mean it is unsuited to all cities.


I'm pretty sure that titans dont care about urban terrain, as they would just walk through buildings.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Racerguy180 wrote:
 Excommunicatus wrote:
Snake Tortoise wrote: Most urban environments too, apart from wide, ground level streets


What's your source on road allowances and city-planning in the grim darkness of the far future?

A Titan being unsuited to a city does not mean it is unsuited to all cities.


I'm pretty sure that titans dont care about urban terrain, as they would just walk through buildings.



The buildings of any major city are bigger than the stated sizes for most Titans. Simply walking through them is not a great option, especially since lots of urban building have sub-levels. Any Titan trying to walk through a building could just wind up falling into a hole and then buried in rubble.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Insectum7 wrote:

The buildings of any major city are bigger than the stated sizes for most Titans. Simply walking through them is not a great option, especially since lots of urban building have sub-levels. Any Titan trying to walk through a building could just wind up falling into a hole and then buried in rubble.


That's why they don't walk over them. They level them.

Person above said it well. Marines are used to conquer world. Titans to destroy them. When you utilize them you dont' care about collateral casualties. In HH Dorn sent basically all the titans to Beta Garmon to fight Horus titans THERE rather than earth precisely because had they fought on earth there would not be much LEFT of earth to the winner.

We are destroyer of worlds is accurate statement for titans. They don't conquer worlds. They flatten them.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

tneva82 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

The buildings of any major city are bigger than the stated sizes for most Titans. Simply walking through them is not a great option, especially since lots of urban building have sub-levels. Any Titan trying to walk through a building could just wind up falling into a hole and then buried in rubble.


That's why they don't walk over them. They level them.

Person above said it well. Marines are used to conquer world. Titans to destroy them. When you utilize them you dont' care about collateral casualties. In HH Dorn sent basically all the titans to Beta Garmon to fight Horus titans THERE rather than earth precisely because had they fought on earth there would not be much LEFT of earth to the winner.

We are destroyer of worlds is accurate statement for titans. They don't conquer worlds. They flatten them.


My head canon for games fought on 'Planet Bowling Ball' is that the battles are being fought on the site of a previous Titan encounter!
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





nareik wrote:
I hate to say "a wizard did it", but Titans for orks, chaos and imperium are loci of faith. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest some warp shenanigans make them more effective than they should be.

It's always worth remember that reality in Warhammer isn't quite as solid and un-flexible as reality in reality.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: